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I think you can easily justify them, for me I wanted to see if there was room in the quiver for both a goat and the C&D.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeleBeaver
After a banner last 2 weeks here in the INW I’ve decided YES, but the days on the C&D will be less than I had wanted... but that is really only due to the goat being so damn amazing and absolutely a quiver of one.
Ha
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Super generous. I'll PM you when the time gets closer and if the trip actually happens. Think about what whiskey/etc you likeQuote:
Originally Posted by SkiLyft
Thanks. Is there somewhere where its discussed how they ski differently? I remember seeing it somewhere but I can't find it for the life of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by paalrune
2014/2015 186cm Wren 112 (so back when the tail was flatter and stiffer), stockQuote:
Originally Posted by sf
2019/2020 182cm Woods 108, custom topsheet but stock construction
My old Wrens require staying on the front of your boots and going at least 30mph at all times. They also have no speed limit and will absorb any and all small children in their path. I can ski them in tight terrain but need to have my shit together.
The Woods allow me to stand in the middle of the ski and be lazy and just kind of pivot them around. They still have a pretty generous speed limit but I do need to pay a bit more attention to what's coming up than the Wrens, as the Woods won't just automatically absorb everything when I decide turning is overrated. That said I can still ski them really hard, they still have great edgehold (like my hand needs to be dragging on the snow before I find their limit), and they're still very stable. The big difference is that I don't have to be 100% on my game at all times like I do with the Wrens. I honestly haven't had a chance to ski much tight terrain/trees on the Woods yet but based on how they've felt on chalky mogul steeps, they should excel there.
I don't particularly like either ski in pow, but that's why I have Billy Goats. Wrens and Woods are fine in pow, but the BG is better.
I should also add a couple things. First, most people should size a Woodsman the same as a Wren. I went shorter because I specifically wanted a significantly more easygoing ski. Second, I'm on the smaller side of things at 5'9" 145lbs and generally ski longer skis than most people my size would. Third, my Wrens are pretty significantly different in design than the current Wren, with a much flatter, stiffer, more powerful tail. By all accounts, the current Wren is a lot more forgiving than mine and it sounds like the primary difference between the current Wren and the Woods is the mount point and how you stand on the ski.
Yeah I think I'm going to go big or go home on this ski. I love the megawatts at 125mm but they are straight noodles once things get tracked. Good intro to pow specific skis but I want to upgrade. Also considering the Chipotle banana if anyone has any comparisons between those (or fat meridians) and the billygoat/C&D.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiLyft
Also just wanted to point out that way back in this thread, Scott mentioned that the average weight for the C&D single skis were 2330 in 184cm and 2410 in 189cm. Basically identical to the Billygoats. So weight is less of a factor in maneuverability than just the sheer width I think.
Here:Quote:
Originally Posted by brundo
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...tional-Changes
And some here:
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...BillyGoat-am-I
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Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
Yeah, I get the older wren / woods pairing. I have 189 new Wrens, so for me it's more of picking one. The wren is nice, just a tiny bit more than I need for most days.
I ski 189 W108's most days. I think of it as a forgiving charger, at least that's the slot it fills in my quiver.Quote:
Originally Posted by sf
I demoed the woodsman last season. It was less demanding than the wren and does well with slower speeds/shorter turns (naturally.) One thing I didn't like on the woodsman 116 is that the short sidecut/wide tail does get catchy/bogged down in deep crud/heavy pow. If you're looking for a low-tide playful directional ski from on3p, I think the woodsman 96 metal would be the choice for me.
I'll stick to the wrens.
RIP W114
Similar position as skilyft. Own 191 BG, 189 BG and 189 CD.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeleBeaver
The current iteration of the CD is not difficult to ski. In tracked or untracked. It’s an incredible offering.
I posted a short one a ways back. Greatly aligns w what others are saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by robnow
I wouldn’t say size up. I have 179 Wren 108s and 96s and went 182 Woodsman 96. I believe they both have 144cm of EE.
Woodsman just a bit softer and turnier Wren so takes some ease off the demand of the driver. I assume that is what a Wren owner moving to Woodsman is looking for - a bit of ease - so not sure you’d want longer.
Are you rocking the 192? Just got mine today and I’m pretty stoked on the feel in hand. They’re big but my daily is a 193 OG Cochise so I’m hopeful for a mix of stability and forgiveness with these. Shouldn’t be as stout as my 196 Bodes I’ve skied in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
Seems as though the rocker up front and the nice flex on these should make a great Squaw/alpine soft snow charger.
I’m very much old school directional in my style and on the line seems like a good spot to drill with Pivots. It compares very closely when side by side with Cochise which I consider very directional.
More to come.....pretty stoked to get out on these.....
Love to hear bout mount points as well in the next cpl days if there are any opinions out there. Line seems pretty money tho. Assuming there has been a shit load of research by ON3P regarding that.
i'll say this, waffled on mount point on the kartels for a while and got good feedback from on3p and folks here. ended up on the line last season, then switched to -2cm. skis are great at rec but charge just that extra lil bit where im at now. love em at -2Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoepa
can't speak for the woodsies but based on what i hear about design its a wrenish shape with a kartel/jeff heart, rec is somewhere around -7cm from true center. wrens are about -10 with kartel/jeff being -5ish
fwiw, im a directional skier and if i owned a woods i'd probably mount at least -1cm from rec, others here who have had my experience with the kartels like being aft of rec as well...ymmv
Was just thinking the same......-1 may give me the directional feel I’m wanting out of these.Quote:
Originally Posted by detuned
Call me crazy but I never bonded with Bibby pros which seemed more center in feel. I know the Woods are a totally different ski but I love the directional feel of my Blizz skis and am hoping for a blend on these so going a little deeper may be the call.
The 192’s are guns tho......such a rad feel in hand......can’t wait to let em run.
Billy Goat Tour from factory finds. Mounted on the line.
Haven't flexed standard Billy Goat, but according to Iggy these have softer and rounder flex.
Can't wait to take them for a ride tomorrow.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1ebf49891c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b3e99602c1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...bc03e6495e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ca0ba2e8e0.jpg
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I know this is heresy...
I am not really finding any versatility with my C&Ds. Wondering if I'm completely alone in this experience/can't ski/whatever, or if I'm just too fat for tour core. I'm 6'2", 230#, strong. Decent skier, not amazing. Ski at a decent clip, don't really charge. ride somewhere between centered and forward. I've put 3 resort days, 3 cat days on the C&Ds. When powder is deep, light, and uncut, they're great. Really, really great. Better than praxis protests by a little bit. When conditions are heavier, cut up, or variable, I find the skis getting pushed around more than I would hope or expect. The reason this stresses me out is that I find variable snow
I have ... IDK, 200+ days on a pair of 2011/2012 billygoats. The C&Ds are floatier, more manueverable, and just better in fresh, deep snow, and weirdly better on groomers. The Billy Goats are confidence inspiring in every kind of fucked up variable weird cut up whatever snow I've ever skied, and the C&Ds really don't inspire that confidence for me. I probably have 10ish days on a pair of Wren 108 veneers, and while they're not quite the bulldozers of the old BGs, I don't have this feeling on them.
Is it me? Do I need to just go faster and hold it together? Do I need to ride the C&Ds differently than my old BGs? Should I just be on goats (189/193/whatever)?
I can vouch for detuned ripping on his Kartels.Quote:
Originally Posted by detuned
What he left out is how good they are at serving double duty as an axe!
Best soft snow oriented BG vintage IMO. Super pivoty but can still charge. Tail seems just a tad more forgiving and loose than the current vintage. That is a heck of a find. One of the best graphics, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by scmartin69
I would say that is pretty accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by brundo
Yeah...he’s telling the truth. I think the current C&D is stupid easy to ski. Very similar to the feeling of my 186 2014 BG.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupreChicken
It’s difficult to understand what you’re not liking about them based on that post. They are not a difficult ski to ski by any means — the wider platform just works ya a bit more as the day gets chopped up. On groomers they rip (for a ski of that width) @iggy really nailed that. Skiing them faster does really help them come alive — but they are not Goats and will not ever be that versatile IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by theetruscan
Something I noticed, the ski needs to be skied a bit differently vs the goats. I can’t quite nail it down as I haven’t skied them on the same day back to back against goats. But I’ll keep playing with it and report back if I can articulate what I mean here.
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i think it’s the difference that’s not clicking. i’m getting worked even when deep snow has been chopped up but still feels goood on bgs or protests
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If you are ever wanting to move them... i think you would find a buyer pretty quickly. Sometimes skis just don’t click for people.
I would be tempted, so feel free to drop a Pm if you decide to go to something else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theetruscan
Got a pair of 108 187 woodsman mounted for cast pivots 325mm on the line. Located summit county. Any offers?
Why are you moving on from them?Quote:
Originally Posted by phallic-menace
What kind of mounting hole issues will I have if I want to mount regular alpine pivots on the line @ 325? Searched Cast's site but ran out of patienceQuote:
Originally Posted by phallic-menace