2018-19 Praxis Skis Info and Resource Thread

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Originally Posted by glademaster

First off, you're a cheap son of a bitch. Have you ever priced any other semi-custom skis? Do you know what a pair of Iggy's will run you in 2020? Keith's skis are worth twice as much as those Blizzards, and I know this will piss some people off, but his skis are of unquestionably higher quality than ON3P's.

I think ON3P's are some of the most overpriced skis on the market today when you look at performance/$. Their shit never goes on any kind of meaningful discount, has flex patterns that are as refined as a 2x6, is so lifeless is defies the law of conversation of energy, and they use those idiotic green bases that might be durable, but are also slow-as-fuck and make properly brushing out a tune a pain in the ass.

Second, what core do you think the basic build GPO comes with, a recycled foam core from a late 90's Salomon? No, it comes with the enduro core. Add some veneer and you have your skis for $649.

Happy motherfuckin' Friday, I just bought a pair of skis from Keith.

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gotta agree that those prices for custom skis are crazy good. never skied on3p but plenty of skis retail at or over $800... < $800 for this level of quality and customization is pretty rad

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Originally Posted by glademaster

First off, you're a cheap son of a bitch. Have you ever priced any other semi-custom skis? Do you know what a pair of Iggy's will run you in 2020? Keith's skis are worth twice as much as those Blizzards, and I know this will piss some people off, but his skis are of unquestionably higher quality than ON3P's.

I think ON3P's are some of the most overpriced skis on the market today when you look at performance/$. Their shit never goes on any kind of meaningful discount, has flex patterns that are as refined as a 2x6, is so lifeless is defies the law of conversation of energy, and they use those idiotic green bases that might be durable, but are also slow-as-fuck and make properly brushing out a tune a pain in the ass.

Second, what core do you think the basic build GPO comes with, a recycled foam core from a late 90's Salomon? No, it comes with the enduro core. Add some veneer and you have your skis for $649.

Happy motherfuckin' Friday, I just bought a pair of skis from Keith.

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Glade I appreciate the education and valuable input... As someone who currently owns MVP, BC, custom Qs, custom GPOs and SND I think I understand the quality and am a huge supporter of Praxis... But again I truly appreciate the education... And apparently you need to help me with math as what I want comes to $750...


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Originally Posted by whyturn

Protest FTW. Keith makes sick skis. Tabke is a machine. Support indie


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^^^This.

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Originally Posted by glademaster

I know what I can do, I do it well, and I do it all the time. :D

And yeah, as a building inspector who's working from home because construction is (rightly) considered non-essential, I have some time on my hands these days.

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I feel you, man. I'm outta work myself.

Sorry, I probably could have dialed that rant down a couple notches, realistically. But now that it's been quoted a few times, there's no point in tweaking it now.

Now that my dickish streak is immortalized, ya'll should look into buying some skis from Keith if you're in the market. If it's your first Praxis rodeo, don't go crazy with customizing unless you know quite a bit about ski design, but here's some basic advice.

For a pure inbounds ski, the Heavy Hitter core is strongly recommended. The Enduro will be fine, but will be more energetic and you'll get more snow feedback/feel through the ski. I would avoid Enduro/Carbon for inbounds use unless it is a dedicated pow ski.

However, Enduro/Carbon/Veneer results in a build that is light enough to tour with, and will ski significantly better than the UL core is sub-optimal snow. Don't be afraid to drop down a flex # or half a flex # if you are building a touring ski.

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Originally Posted by glademaster

I know what I can do, I do it well, and I do it all the time. :D

And yeah, as a building inspector who's working from home because construction is (rightly) considered non-essential, I have some time on my hands these days.

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Being a building inspector explains your constant grumpiness. I'm glad you don't have to be out on sites right now. Stay safe when you finally get back out there.

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Originally Posted by SorryBro

Being a building inspector explains your constant grumpiness. I'm glad you don't have to be out on sites right now. Stay safe when you finally get back out there.

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Thank you, I really appreciate that. I'm glad I don't have to be either. But yeah, it is a job that has a way of turning someone into a curmudgeon. You approach every situation looking for the things that are wrong with it, and expecting to be bullshitted. The only people who get lied to more than building inspectors are members of the White House Press Corps.

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

I asked about this last year, and the general consensus was to customize a BC instead (stiffness, layup, etc.) - that the BC is essentially a narrow GPO, with appropriate changes, and of course, in a touring layup.

... Thom

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See, that's the problem. I'm not looking for a light ski for the BC. I'm after an inbounds, lift served daily ski. I would have to alter the core to get that with the BC. Plus the taper profile is different between BC and GPO. Didn't the BC exist before the GPO? Interesting that in the easy build, BC are $100 more expensive than GPO but they equalize in more and most difficult builds.

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Originally Posted by phatty

See, that's the problem. I'm not looking for a light ski for the BC. I'm after an inbounds, lift served daily ski. I would have to alter the core to get that with the BC. Plus the taper profile is different between BC and GPO. Didn't the BC exist before the GPO? Interesting that in the easy build, BC are $100 more expensive than GPO but they equalize in more and most difficult builds.

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IMO I don't think BC and GPO are in the same discussion. I've had both, BC never did it for me. Lots of people like it, great ski I'm sure but the GPO is waay better. Very different shapes as well (like you mentioned).

There are a few skinny GPO builds out there. Wish I could remember off the top of my head who has them so I could direct you.

Changing ski width on established designs seems to be a bit of a gamble and rather polarizing. People either love it or hate it.

If you are skiing inbounds and weight isn't a concern, the standard width GPO carves and skis (soft) groomed snow extremely well for its waist width...

Taper, camber and the tail has a few mil offset more from the tip on the gpo. I keep thinking skinny heavy hitter veneer gpo for an inbounds low tide directional do it all. If the standard gpo carves hard pack as well as it does, i can only imagine how good a heavy skinny would be

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Well, the custom sale pricing makes it a lot easier to pass up this Spring, but primarily due to economic uncertainty. This is fair pricing on phenomenal builds with more choices as well, but just too rich for my blood at the moment. Compare this against a BD Helio 115 which would set you back an additional $50 over my dream GPOs.

My dream GPOs (UL/Carbon/Veneer/flex #3) would set me back $799. I don't see a UL option without carbon, but I'm guessing that's possible.

https://www.praxisskis.com/custom-order-skis/

The mod levels are a bit confusing and cause a lot of extra clicking, but the "most difficult" adds multiple rocker choices which is cool to see back.

• Easiest: Allows Flex change (plus or minus one number), add veneer for $150, and choose your graphics
• More Difficult: Expands core choices, and allows for all 5 flexes
• Most Difficult: add multiple rocker/mold choices (CCR, full camber, etc.) for $150, and +10/-10 width change. For this level, you're adding $100 to "more difficult" pricing and you a get "free" width change (use it or lose it). So, if you want CCR in any width (including standard), you pay $250 over the "more difficult" pricing.

... Thom

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not to nitpick but length customization is really the missing piece here

The camber contact length of the GPO would be pretty short for a 106 underfoot daily driver type ski, IMO.

Although I guess that depends on which spec sheet you look at it. It appears the rocker has changed.

Maybe for you. The standard gpo is my dd. A skinny gpo would rip

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Originally Posted by phatty

This thread is too long to fully search, but has anyone pulled the trigger on a skinny GPO to use as a DD ski? Shape looks like it could be interesting scaled down a bit.

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Think this was for touring but a review nonetheless https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...xis-Skinny-GPO

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I'm looking to buy another MVP, but shorter this time. My current MVP is 193 enduro nylon at 3+ flex, I basically want a Praxis built, skinny Bibby Pro.

187 veneer, carbon. The questions are... 3 or 4 flex, and enduro or heavy hitter?

So...the "Easiest" option (with no veneer) is a Praxis ski for $499. That's an unreal price for a new Praxis ski. Sign me up.

Down to either Protests (no brainer) or the new FRS for a resort pow ski (Tahoe), to replace my busted 190 Bibbys in that slot - which were perfect, just looking for a touch more surf.

This new "FRS" ski appears to the Tabke-special MVP+10 with more rocker. But the product page contains basically no information about the ski other than saying it's "developed from" that Tabke ski. Is it the same? Would love to see a camber profile and a spec sheet like they have for other skis. EDIT: I emailed Keith and asked these questions. Will post up.

I tour on 187 Protests and absolutely love that ski. But wondering if the FRS might be better fit for resort use, plus fun to try a different shape. I had been looking at the Chipotle Bananas...

Glad to see Praxis is still offering their skis!

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Originally Posted by glademaster

First off, you're a cheap son of a bitch. Have you ever priced any other semi-custom skis? Do you know what a pair of Iggy's will run you in 2020? Keith's skis are worth twice as much as those Blizzards, and I know this will piss some people off, but his skis are of unquestionably higher quality than ON3P's.

I think ON3P's are some of the most overpriced skis on the market today when you look at performance/$. Their shit never goes on any kind of meaningful discount, has flex patterns that are as refined as a 2x6, is so lifeless is defies the law of conversation of energy, and they use those idiotic green bases that might be durable, but are also slow-as-fuck and make properly brushing out a tune a pain in the ass.

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Keith and I use the same base material.

I haven't followed Keith's pricing in detail, but if he recently raised his prices on customs, good for him. His skis - particularly on custom preorder - have been underpriced for years.

You guys are seriously crazy for bitching about prices. Seems like a good time to support your favorite ski company

#praxis4lyphe

In the game for a resort charger. Torn, very torn. On one hand I think I want something with metal in it. On the other, been wanting to ski freerides for a while. Thinking 4 flex, heavy hitter (maybe +C). Not a huge fan of the lengths it comes in though.

HH+C = resort death machine

FRS v. Protest from KOM:

Thanks for looking to get another set of our skis. I still have a good bit of work to do on the website with the new custom order options but wanted to get things launched so people could see what we have going on. I should have the spec sheet up for the FRS by the end of the weekend. But it is simply a +10 MVP, so all of the specs on the MVP page +10 mm are pretty much the FRS. We did adjust the rocker and tip upturn when we made the set for Drew so those numbers will be a little different, higher tip and a little longer/higher rocker. The developed from is more in reference to the alternative lengths that we added to the FRS, the 188 is the +10 MVP. And I figure it will continue to evolve from that.
I love the Protest but I kind of like the idea of the FRS more for a resort powder ski. The Protest, maybe for Alpine if you are going out and finding fresh lap after lap on a powder day. But for a do it all resort powder ski the FRS seems like the ticket. Drew and our other team riders (Silas and Jed) really liked the +10 MVP.
Great to hear you like the Protest for powder touring.

anyone know if the custom rocker options would permit reduction/elimination of some rocker? (eg 1/2 tip rocker height, 1/4 tail rocker height or just flat tail)

I realize it's a stretch but hey we're all stuck inside so :wink:

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Originally Posted by mall walker

anyone know if the custom rocker options would permit reduction/elimination of some rocker? (eg 1/2 tip rocker height, 1/4 tail rocker height or just flat tail)

I realize it's a stretch but hey we're all stuck inside so :wink:

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Wasn't there an option at the bottom of that drop down menu: "or something else we can discuss"?seems perfect!

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Originally Posted by east or bust

In the game for a resort charger. Torn, very torn. On one hand I think I want something with metal in it. On the other, been wanting to ski freerides for a while. Thinking 4 flex, heavy hitter (maybe +C). Not a huge fan of the lengths it comes in though.

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I would not add carbon to a HH. Makes the ski less damp and more demanding without being stable. Ask keith for a 4+ and HH for a inbounds charger.

Edit: I have owned both HH and HH + carbon + veneer, the HH alone with nylon is miles ahead better for a resort ski

Got some insanely cheap free rides this year second hand. They rip. 184cm and I’m usually a 189-193 kind of a guy.


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Originally Posted by Undertow;5947788I don’t want to make any mods to my dream GPOs other than adding veneer and enduro core... If I go with easiest option enduro is not available and have to pay an extra $150 to get it... [url=http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=84222

TGR Forums[/url]

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Perhaps I missed something, but enduro core is standard for the GPO, so you can go with the Easiest option. Adding a veneer would put you at $649.

What is the FRS ski? [eta - saw meter man's post. thanks]

Having owned many Praxis and ON3P skis over the years (and a handful of Rossignol, Blizzard, Atomic, Vokl, Icelantic, etc) - Praxis and ON3P are in a league of their own quality wise. I don't know if I'd say either is more durable or better made than the other, both builds are superb and I thoroughly enjoy many of each company's designs. $500 for a stock Praxis, up to $750

FRS is basically a +10 (119mm waist) MVP with more rocker.

FRS looks sweet. Didn't think I'd be looking at another Praxis this year but I might pull the trigger (have to support the economy and all). Personally, I am a huge fan of Heavy/Carbon/Veneer layup for resort with my Qs. I also really like my Praxis Lhasa Fats in Enduro/Veneer, as well as my Piste Jibs in Heavy/Veneer. A heavy/carbon/veneer FRS is pretty tempting. But for only $650 just going with Easiest Custom Option (Enduro Core) + Veneer.

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

FRS is basically a +10 (119mm waist) MVP with more rocker.

FRS looks sweet. Didn't think I'd be looking at another Praxis this year but I might pull the trigger (have to support the economy and all). Personally, I am a huge fan of Heavy/Carbon/Veneer layup for resort with my Qs. I also really like my Praxis Lhasa Fats in Enduro/Veneer, as well as my Piste Jibs in Heavy/Veneer. A heavy/carbon/veneer FRS is pretty tempting. But for only $650 just going with Easiest Custom Option (Enduro Core) + Veneer.

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What would the veneer do on the FRS? $150 is no joke...esp when the Champ didn't need the woody.

Here's a fun "what praxis ski am I" game:

25m+ radius 180-189cm, <= 5cm tip rocker height, <= 2cm tail rocker height. with the custom widths I guess width doesn't matter so much... basically looking for that long low tip rocker / flat tail vibe. bonus points for ~25mm tip/mid difference, ~10-15mm mid/tail difference.

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Originally Posted by detrusor

Got some insanely cheap free rides this year second hand. They rip. 184cm and I’m usually a 189-193 kind of a guy.


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This is good to hear as I'm in the same camp. What build do you have?

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Originally Posted by fleaches

Think this was for touring but a review nonetheless https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...xis-Skinny-GPO

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So, people are considering skinny GPOs again? I can't quite remember if I wrote this somewhere else, but I gave them to a buddy. Strong skier, but need a cheap pair of skis. He really didn't like them, far to demanding compared to what they gave in return......which is what I felt as well. But this may or may not apply to you. We both ended up skiing them in a lot of tight, steep terrain, where it was difficult to ski at speeds that made them come alive.

Regarding BCs vs GPOs. IMO they are pretty far from each other. BCs ski like a pretty traditional ski, with a lot of rocker. For me it was a very intuitive ski, and I ended up putting a lot of milage on them. Unfortunately, at 190 they were too long for the ups. I've not clicked with either GPOs or skinny GPOs, just not my cup of tea.

In other news......how about those MVP94s? Anybody considering those?

Someone needs to get on a set of those MVP 94s and report back.

I am also interested in picking up a set of Park and Rides as an east coast daily for firm conditions, curious if anyone is holding one of those in a 181 or whatever the longest length is

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Originally Posted by meter-man

FRS, Chipotle Banana

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I own the banana and I would love to AB against the FRS. I’ve only skied the CB 2x, but it felt money. Almost sold them without skiing them because they hand flex soft.

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Originally Posted by dschane

Perhaps I missed something, but enduro core is standard for the GPO, so you can go with the Easiest option. Adding a veneer would put you at $649.

What is the FRS ski? [eta - saw meter man's post. thanks]

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That was my bad... I already have a custom 192 GPO with the enduro as the heavy hitter was not available... If I did this custom I want to add the heavy hitter which makes the ski $799 with wood top... Not saying it is not worth it but since I already have a pair no need to spend $799 for another pair esp with my custom 194 Qs...


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I've been thinking about adding a more dedicated powder touring setup to the quiver for a while, and might jump on this as the opportunity to do it. I've got 192cm MAP veneer Protests with Shifts already, and they're great skis, but they're about 2330g/ski flat which makes them kind of a lot to drag uphill for big vert. They're also generally more ski than I need in a touring rig. They're not at all demanding, but I'm 1) generally skiing more conservatively and slowly in the backcountry, so I don't need the same top end and 2) this pow touring ski would really only ever see good, deep snow so I don't have as much need for a more stable ski that can take on some chop. I'm about 6', 165lb.

I'm thinking a 187cm UL Protest (maybe veneer too?) could be the ticket, but I'm also intrigued by the idea of lightening up a FRS. What says the peanut gallery? I've also got 184cm Ravens as my more everyday touring ski, and the 190cm Bibby and 186cm OG Bodacious are my all time favorite resort skis, to give you an idea.

ETA: I'd be putting a much lighter binding than Shifts on these too. My current Protests get skied inbounds a fair bit too, hence that choice.

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...-188-MVP-10-UL <- these are 188cm, MVP +10 (I believe the FRS is just a MVP+10...??) at a hair under 2kg/ski, that's a lot of ski for the weight imo. With a light binding (MTN, ATK etc) that's a pretty nice setup, probably save almost 2lbs/foot over your Protests/shifts. just fwiw, not my sale or anything. ATK Trofeo Plus 10 @ 180g and you're looking svelte

Those are intriguing. I assume they're a stock flex 4, which might be a little stiffer than I need for a soft snow touring ski at my weight, but the price sure is right...

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Originally Posted by HAB

Those are intriguing. I assume they're a stock flex 4, which might be a little stiffer than I need for a soft snow touring ski at my weight, but the price sure is right...

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actually those were #3 flex according to Keith, and I've been tempted since lockha31 posted up that profile picture.
https://www.praxisskis.com/skis/expe...s/188-mvp-119/

Sheeeeeit. That's real tempting.


I would like to throw Keith some business right now though...

Thinking about some 192 GPOs + veneer, which I believe would weigh ~ 9.8 pounds per pair. In my books, that's a good weight for an inbounds ski. How much weight does a heavy hitter add, and is it really noticeable when skiing, or is it about durability? I've been skiing the BCs inbounds (UL + veneer) and they've been skiing great (at 8 pounds per pair), and I'm wondering if adding a heavy hitter core to a ski that's already quite a bit heavier is necessary.

I'm sure someone here can comment...

My $.02: I wouldn't go with a heavy hitter in the bigger Praxis skis. You'll have a lower swing weight with the enduro core and I'd personally take that over the slightly improved crud busting of the heavy hitter core.