Student Loan Forgiveness

That last claim is just absolutely not true. Lots of people are going to benefit from this. I think they shouldn’t have had any income cap. It’s such a silly thing to get pissed about when programs that are exponentially more expensive get passed without as much as a peep, and go to help people who need it even less.

Farm subsidies, pharmaceutical subsidies, the entire military industrial complex, tax breaks for corporations, all those go by and nobody cares. But a teacher in NYC who makes $75k gets a little help and all of sudden the sky is falling? Jesus.

Also none of this is zero sum. We can still do universal pre-k, or make the cost of College less, or forgive medical debt.

^The 125k thing is interesting. No doubt it was discussed and analyzed. Sure, here in NH 125k is a nice living. Other parts of the country not so much.

Just to beat a dead horse. How many of those blue collar employers received a fat ppp loan as those businesses bottom line went thru the roof due to inflation all the while they either took a pay cut or continued to stay at their current wage? The answer is a lot. That's who they should be pissed at.

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

I am specifically referencing individual income and not household.

250K household income does not need a handout anywhere. I know this is TGR and most of you have zero idea about what life is life in the real world but 250k is still a lot of fucking money to all but the top 10% of households in this country.

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JFC, please stop projecting — you want to cite stats, knock yourself out…stop pretending your fantasy preference is truth

I would hazard most here are more likely to not be in the top 10% — are you (for one data point)? I’m not (there’s two).

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

JFC, please stop projecting — you want to cite stats, knock yourself out…stop pretending your fantasy preference is truth

I would hazard most here are more likely to not be in the top 10% — are you (for one data point)? I’m not (there’s two).

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We really should have our household AGI, profession, dick length, educational backgrounds, GNAR points, religion, and PSIA Skier Ability Levels baked into our profile pages just so we know what we’re dealing with in these threads.

I'm not projecting shit. Pointing out some guy who works for a logging company in Maine paying off TGR dentists student loans clearly just strikes a chord here.

That is the reality of this thread. Of course you are all for it because it is you and your buddies getting the benefit. I also think you all know this is to blatant of a handout.

This thread isn't about PPP, or farm subsidies, or any other abused program. That can be talked about elsewhere, regardless of PPP at least being an attempt to keep blue collar America employed and farm subsidies being an attempt to keep blue collar America's grocery bills in check. At least blue collar America can see that logic. Student loan forgiveness isn't getting buy in from the non-college crowd and that is going to be a problem politically.

Quite a bit of the blue collar world was deemed essential and worked straight through the whole mess.
Didn't the Catholic church get a huge windfall in COVID relief monies--thats who people should be pissed at!

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

I'm not projecting shit. Pointing out some guy who works for a logging company in Maine paying off TGR dentists student loans clearly just strikes a chord here.

That is the reality of this thread. Of course you are all for it because it is you and your buddies getting the benefit.

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All the TGR dentists are paying for that guy’s job too through timber subsidies, PPP loans, healthcare, etc. If you really want to nitpick this shit, liberal/urban states pay more into taxes than they get back, while rural/red states get more in subsidies than they pay in. So spare me the pearl clutching about poor Tommy Logger having to make sure the person teaching his kids in school can afford to support her own family now.

Way to illustrate the class warfare element of this.

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

Way to illustrate the class warfare element of this.

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I’m saying quite the opposite, actually

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

We really should have our household AGI, profession, dick length, educational backgrounds, GNAR points, religion, and PSIA Skier Ability Levels baked into our profile pages just so we know what we’re dealing with in these threads.

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Yes! I have more GNAR points than anyone!!
You may ski on that side > or that side < stay out of zee middle!

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

I know this is TGR and most of you have zero idea about what life is life in the real world but 250k is still a lot of fucking money to all but the top 10% of households in this country.

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You love to do this as a way of saying "I know the real truth and none of you do", but nobody buys it.

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

Way to illustrate the class warfare element of this.

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I read your posts this morning, and all you have done is raise the class warfare aspect. Way to project.

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Originally Posted by TNKen

As you know, one of my daughter's is a PA. She has student loans from PA school. If she works for a not-for-profit and makes the minimum payment on her loans, the balance is forgiven. The huge hospital system in our area that she works for is a not-for-profit. Ding-Ding!!

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Yeah, I think people should maybe care a little less about cultural war arguments like which group of Americans is more deserving and more about what it means to keep adding subsidies on top of subsidies to higher education. In an abstract sense loan forgiveness is a good thing in that it makes it possible for people like TNKen's daughter to work for non-profits and maybe even help underserved communities. In the real world however it creates perverse incentives for schools to keep increasing costs:

Law Schools Devise Trick To Game Taxpayers

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

I'm not projecting shit. Pointing out some guy who works for a logging company in Maine paying off TGR dentists student loans clearly just strikes a chord here.

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The point, as noted, is that logging guy isn't the primary payer, unless he's the company owner...and then he's not your $50k earner anymore is he?

the class warfare stuff is occurring because of this fantasy that pits blue collar & white collar against each other without merit

by quantity, the majority volume of us tax revenue isn't overwhelmingly made by low earners

the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

I'm not projecting shit. Pointing out some guy who works for a logging company in Maine paying off TGR dentists student loans clearly just strikes a chord here.

That is the reality of this thread. Of course you are all for it because it is you and your buddies getting the benefit. I also think you all know this is to blatant of a handout.

This thread isn't about PPP, or farm subsidies, or any other abused program. That can be talked about elsewhere, regardless of PPP at least being an attempt to keep blue collar America employed and farm subsidies being an attempt to keep blue collar America's grocery bills in check. At least blue collar America can see that logic. Student loan forgiveness isn't getting buy in from the non-college crowd and that is going to be a problem politically.

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You didn’t learn much in college did you? Everyone in this country is benefiting from some sort of subsidy. Your imagined class warfare is just that, your imagination

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

I'm not projecting shit. Pointing out some guy who works for a logging company in Maine paying off TGR dentists student loans clearly just strikes a chord here.

That is the reality of this thread. Of course you are all for it because it is you and your buddies getting the benefit. I also think you all know this is to blatant of a handout.

This thread isn't about PPP, or farm subsidies, or any other abused program. That can be talked about elsewhere, regardless of PPP at least being an attempt to keep blue collar America employed and farm subsidies being an attempt to keep blue collar America's grocery bills in check. At least blue collar America can see that logic. Student loan forgiveness isn't getting buy in from the non-college crowd and that is going to be a problem politically.

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Eh, the TGR dentists are the ones paying for the lumber those loggers provide. giving folks more discretionary income should theoretically help help raise the tide for all boats.

Let he/she who has not received a handout/subsidy/benefit from the government cast the first stone. Pretty sure that the folks in maine you describe have received a good chunk of my tax dollars due to their shitty decisions, so i dont really feel bad that they might have to help pay for someone else's shitty decisions in some small way.

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

Way to illustrate the class warfare element of this.

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Siding with Marx again?
Tch, tch.

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

Not one of you is presenting an argument about how people without college degrees subsidizing those with one is in any way fair.

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Read Mustonen's post. If you don't have a college degree you're not paying much in taxes and therefore you're not contributing to this program.


Attachment 425060

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Originally Posted by shaggy433

This may be true for some but not for all... 60k doesn't stretch that far...

1300 rent
1300 daycare
900 student loan
300 car
50 insurance
200 electric
450 food
that's 4500 a month just there.. that's not counting gas for hot water, stove etc. gas to get to work, cell phone, school supplies for the kids, credit card payments... this all adds up to nearly 60k a year so an 80k job before taxes...

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Where's the line item for hookers and blow? I guess that is discretionary, so better to cut that out than cancel cable.

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

I'm not projecting shit. Pointing out some guy who works for a logging company in Maine paying off TGR dentists student loans clearly just strikes a chord here.

That is the reality of this thread. Of course you are all for it because it is you and your buddies getting the benefit. I also think you all know this is to blatant of a handout.

This thread isn't about PPP, or farm subsidies, or any other abused program. That can be talked about elsewhere, regardless of PPP at least being an attempt to keep blue collar America employed and farm subsidies being an attempt to keep blue collar America's grocery bills in check. At least blue collar America can see that logic. Student loan forgiveness isn't getting buy in from the non-college crowd and that is going to be a problem politically.

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Definitely see where you are coming from and agree that the Republicans will make this a class warfare topic for the mid-terms, all the while the Repub politicians will be taking cash handouts from their rich puppet masters. Then pass more tax cuts and friendly tax loopholes for the rich, while the upper middle dentist class pay the taxes.

Having an educated work force is a huge plus for America. Becoming indentured servants to the rich is not my idea of the American dream. Currently you have to rent the American dream, and that's just the way the wealthy want it. The rich want to own the American dream and keep the 99% of us sucking on their teets.

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Originally Posted by Toadman

Definitely see where you are coming from and agree that the Republicans will make this a class warfare topic for the mid-terms

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Instead of affirming the incorrect assumptions that inflame the divisions we currently see, why is it so hard to point out or agree that the premise is wrong?

We all see that rural & blue collar & less wealthy each/all have inherent complaints about being ignored by government. Let's work on that. But let's not propagate BS about how economy stimulation programs are built on the backs of the less wealthy.

@adironrider, how hard is it to ask your blue collar friends: did you know that the bottom 50% of earners make up less than 3% of US tax revenue? it's not condescending or elitist to provide facts...

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

<snip>
There was a comment upthread about this working out to something like $1k/person, which seems crazy. But that’s now how taxes are paid. These people in rural Maine making $50K and lower aren’t paying for this. That narrative is absurd. If you make $50K and you have a family you aren’t paying much in taxes, and the bulk of this money is being paid for by the wealthy and the corporations. Ask them if they’d be OK with corporations and the wealthy paying for some debt forgiveness for the dwindling middle-class, instead, and I bet their tune changes.

And I challenge you to expound upon how $60K is any less arbitrary a cap than $125K. You gotta pick a number. I imagine it wasn’t entirely out of a hat and was looking at some bell curve of student loan debt, but who knows? Would be interesting to have heard those conversations. But what we do know is that the beneficiaries of this were more or less who they were trying to target, and they probably capped it around where their targeting efforts intersected with the law of diminishing returns.

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Yeah? Well that won't fit a certain narrative very well, now, will it?

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

Instead of affirming the incorrect assumptions that inflame the divisions we currently see, why is it so hard to point out or agree that the premise is wrong?

We all see that rural & blue collar & less wealthy each/all have inherent complaints about being ignored by government. Let's work on that. But let's not propagate BS about how economy stimulation programs are built on the backs of the less wealthy.

@adironrider, how hard is it to ask your blue collar friends: did you know that the bottom 50% of earners pay less than 3% of US taxes? it's not aggressive or classist to just have the facts...

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It’s identity politics and bullshit, that’s why. It’s not about whether someone is actually rich, or not. It’s about a set of values that say actual working class ( Starbucks baristas) are all stupid lazy stoners, but lazy puds driving $70k pickups to the officepark in Texas are “real working class” because they project traditional white rural cultural cliche

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Siding with Marx again?
Tch, tch.

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I laffed.

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

<snip>
@adironrider, how hard is it to ask your blue collar friends: did you know that the bottom 50% of earners make up less than 3% of US tax revenue? it's not condescending or elitist to provide facts...

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Attachment 425063

Everyone complaining about this program thinks they have a better idea (for this program or an alternative) but has anyone tried to act on it?

Or, can anyone (at least) cite to a program that was killed because of this student loan forgiveness program?

(Will check back in a few pages)


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