Ukraine

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Originally Posted by raisingarizona13

Never underestimate the power of a people fighting for their freedom. Is that a saying? I feel like it is.

I'm not sure how I feel about watching it online and rooting for the Ukrainians while Russian soldiers die either though. I mean, if a really large chunk of the Russian population doesn't support this how do their troops feel about being forced into it? Do they believe in what they are doing? And now that I'm reading what I just wrote could give the Ukrainians enough to put up a damn good fight.

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I also feel for the Russian troops. Nothing about this can feel good to them. Unless they believe the propaganda they have been feed

When the USSR fell in the 1990s, Europe should have completely denuclearized them.

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Originally Posted by MTT

I also feel for the Russian troops. Nothing about this can feel good to them. Unless they believe the propaganda they have been feed

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I'm super curious about that.

I might actually listen to this Ukranian radio station more than just today. It’s not bad.

Half the Russian troops are likely conscripts. I doubt they are stoked... but maybe combat means less rape by their superiors.

This has probably already been posted here, but I gotta say. The Ukrainians radio response get the TGR seal of approval and these guys went down as absolute legends. A most heartfelt salute to those brave men.

https://youtu.be/4wnKi3r0ch0

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Originally Posted by raisingarizona13

Never underestimate the power of a people fighting for their freedom. Is that a saying? I feel like it is.

I'm not sure how I feel about watching it online and rooting for the Ukrainians while Russian soldiers die either though. I mean, if a really large chunk of the Russian population doesn't support this how do their troops feel about being forced into it? Do they believe in what they are doing? And now that I'm reading what I just wrote could give the Ukrainians enough to put up a damn good fight.

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To their credit, a decent number of Russians have been out in the street protesting, which takes monster sized balls in that country.

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

I might actually listen to this Ukranian radio station more than just today. It’s not bad.

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Share? I’m always looking for something different.
I’m getting that the Ukrainian people expected the world to help them. This is surreal and sucks

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

This has probably already been posted here, but I gotta say. The Ukrainians radio response get the TGR seal of approval and these guys went down as absolute legends. A most heartfelt salute to those brave men.

https://youtu.be/4wnKi3r0ch0

Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app

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I think theirs been a lot of that going on

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Originally Posted by Summit

I just want to emphasize my No-Fly Zone suggestion is extremely risky if Russia challenges it militarily. To make it work almost guarantees escalatory steps in which retaliation is accepted by both sides without further escalation.

Such a scenario means NATO jets overtly shooting down Russian jets and helicopters. Russia could retaliate by striking NATO airbases or invading NATO airspace to shoot down AWACS. This means missiles flying over Romania, Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary closing down civilian air corridors. The rules of engagement would be very messy and dangerous and the potential for escalation is high. It would also require SEAD missions in Ukraine (strikes against Russian SAMs) to protect the No Fly CAP. That would end up ballooning over the border as Russia can cover 1/3 to 1/2 of Ukraine with S300s and equivalent based on the Russian side of the border or from the Black Sea Fleet, which it might be necessary to sink (one cruiser is 500 Russian casualties). S400s can cover most of Ukraine from Russia but they have fewer of those.

This is something to try only if NATO believes Russia must be fought now in a limited way to avoid a future and certain major conflict. Essentially NATO becoming the Ukrainian air force while not sending in armored formations to go toe-to-toe with the Ruskies is less risky than having to later fight toe-to-toe in the Baltics.

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NATO and the US thinks the Putin oligarchy will win the battles but lose the war. So it will be a guerrilla style proxy war once things settle down. Cheap for us, supplying weapons, training, and intelligence. Expensive preoccupation for Russia with the CIA up their ass. It really opens the door for the west to give Putin a slow bleed down.

Patience grasshopper.

It just sucks and is so sad for Ukraine.

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Originally Posted by uglymoney

NATO and the US thinks the Putin oligarchy will win the battles but lose the war. So it will be a guerrilla style proxy war once things settle down. Cheap for us, supplying weapons, training, and intelligence. Expensive preoccupation for Russia with the CIA up their ass. It really opens the door for the west to give Putin a slow bleed down.

Patience grasshopper.

It just sucks and is so sad for Ukraine.

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Yup this is what I said a few pages ago. Does anyone see a different outcome?

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Originally Posted by frorider

Yup this is what I said a few pages ago. Does anyone see a different outcome?

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Who’s to say Putin won’t threaten/ attack because we are supplying the then rebels in his new propped up country?

Why not just go all in now? Before they kill everyone

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Originally Posted by MTT

Who’s to say Putin won’t threaten/ attack because we are supplying the then rebels in his new propped up country?

Why not just go all in now? Before they kill everyone

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He'll pull his dirty tricks, but he won't be bombing NATO over it. It will hurt him more than us.

See also: Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Afghanistan again

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Originally Posted by jono

FIFY

To put names to the dividers, here's their playbook:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foun...of_Geopolitics

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Useful read. Russian version of American neocon thinking.

I guess there would be a good bit of profit supplying a long term low intensity insurgence in Ukraine?

Would you be surprised if that was a driving factor now?

I guess there are people who think like that

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Originally Posted by frorider

Yup this is what I said a few pages ago. Does anyone see a different outcome?

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I wish I were certain enough to be comfortable making predictions.

There could be another round of convenient 'terrorist' apartment bombings to bulk up internal support.

We could see countries refuse to acknowledge captured regions like Crimea and still Russia could decide the punishment is worth the added territory.

We could just ignore war in Ukraine after a while like we did in Donbas and Lukhansk.

Shit, we could try a Chamberlain and give them part of Poland too.

No new video on the tv

Reruns from yesterday. But updates powerplant destroyed. Sayin Russian move into the city tonight

It’s a big country. Lots of the ukranian military left intact in the west.

I think the Russians will stop with 1/2 the country, splitting it in two.

Then they could try and force a truce and see what western Ukraine does.


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When do the planeloads of refugees arrive? After the Russians empty the prisons?

I wonder what would have happened if NATO had put an Air Cap over Kiev.


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Originally Posted by Cono Este

I wonder what would have happened if NATO had put an Air Cap over Kiev.

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Putin casually asserted he would use nuclear weapons if anything like that were to happen. A hot war between NATO and Russia carries the real possibility of a nuclear exchange.

It's just one of many reason why Putin's claim that Ukraine is a security threat to Russia is a bad joke.

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Originally Posted by MTT

Share? I’m always looking for something different.
I’m getting that the Ukrainian people expected the world to help them. This is surreal and sucks

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Where do we send a check? That helps a little guy more than an oligarch. Does $37 buy a sack of turnips?

We could send a mag. Want to visit Poland or Romania? Not far from there.

Urban warfare guarantees high civilian casualties :frown:

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

I wonder what would have happened if NATO had put an Air Cap over Kiev.

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They'd probably try to shoot down the CAP. You put CAPs over what you control. We'd have to establish control over the airspace first.

We could sacrifice a pair of F-16s as a casus belli, but why would we want to? Anyone wanna volunteer for that?

Anyone seeing any live feeds from Kiev. Or a transmission from the Ukrainian president? Last I saw he was still hunkered down in the countries capital Kiev.

You think the Russians are going to kill the elected president of Ukraine?

How will the world react to that?

What’s it going to take for polite society to say. Ok that’s enough