espresso making mags?

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Originally Posted by tgapp

nice man! you might have mentioned this before but what profitec do you have? those are great machines

and yeah bennymac's experience is pretty reflective of everyone i've known who has used Breville machines (including the folks on home-barista). they make great coffee and they have great customer service, but it is more of consumer machine.

if you wanted to prioritize durability at the same price point i'd look at a lelit marax: https://www.totalespresso.com/produc...t-mara-x-pl62x

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My wife went down the rabbit hole, did the research, and chose the Profitec 500 and Eureka Silencio grinder. Zero complaints or issues so far. We're definitely not the type to fine tune or mod or view espresso as a hobby (NTTIAWT) and we live in a rural/remote area so we need a dependable machine that can be potentially fixed by us if all it needs is minor repairs or maintenance. We don't have it lined it but will once we settle on a place to live.

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I've switched from espresso to pour-over these days, so if any mags want a basic machine to get started, I'm selling my Lelit PL41. It's very similar to the Gaggia Classic, with similar performance. They now make a updated model, called the Anna. This one is old at this point, but hasn't even been used for at least 5 years. I cleaned and tested it this morning, and all is in perfect order.

IDK what it's worth, maybe $200? I'm happy to ship for the cost of shipping (will be substantial). I also have a commercial grinder that I'd let go, but it's gigantic and very heavy, so prob not worth it to ship.

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^^ that's a great deal for that machine. def a mag price.

lelit makes absolutely amazing kit, even for their entry level machines. it lasts forever too.

I'm interested! Any plans for early season turns in mammoth?

That's a good machine and a good deal!

On a similar note - I have Gaggia Classic that is need of some repair. Good entry-level machine. If anyone wants it and finds themselves on the I-5 corridor headed through southern OR. It is free to a good home.

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Originally Posted by comish

I'm interested! Any plans for early season turns in mammoth?

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No lifts for me, so I won't get out until there's a solid base. Send me a PM if you might make it this way (Carson). I'll dig out the grinder and get pics.

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I’m definitely learning that my budget machine (Breville Bambino) and budget grinder (Breville Smart Ginder Pro) are going to keep me wondering if I’ll ever really dial things in.
Also wondering if a Flair with pressure gauge would be much better.
The auto steam wand on the Bambino is so good it’s likely to be the main thing keeping me on this machine.


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Originally Posted by jm2e

I’m definitely learning that my budget machine (Breville Bambino) and budget grinder (Breville Smart Ginder Pro) are going to keep me wondering if I’ll ever really dial things in.
Also wondering if a Flair with pressure gauge would be much better.
The auto steam wand on the Bambino is so good it’s likely to be the main thing keeping me on this machine.


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flairs are so good, but they also are a ton of work. they're capable of making world class espresso, but they can't steam milk, they take a decent amount of time in their workflow, and they're a little bit of a pain to clean up. if you're comfortable with those tradeoffs, the espresso quality is truly remarkable.



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I've had a few espresso machine and imo of you have a good grinder, any espresso machine will make a great ristretto.

You need a bottomless filter though and a distribution tool.

For capucino, you need a double boiler or, microwave your milk and use a propeller type hand held device to make foam.

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Originally Posted by rod9301

You need a bottomless filter though and a distribution tool.

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Care to elaborate on how a bottomless portafilter is necessary? I thought it was just a steeze thing.
Care to elaborate on your distribution tool of choice, and why it's better than a little finger sweeping before tamping? Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by jm2e

Care to elaborate on how a bottomless portafilter is necessary? I thought it was just a steeze thing.
Care to elaborate on your distribution tool of choice, and why it's better than a little finger sweeping before tamping? Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

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That's the thing about "artisanal" anything in the kitchen--trying to decide if spending 3 times as much to do the same thing really does taste better or if it's all in your head. The emperor's new clothes, or oblivious peasant?
I'm one of those people who loves to eat and will eat and drink pretty much anything. Someone with a more refined palate would notice a difference where I don't.

I've used the single wall and double wall filter baskets on my machine--Breville Infusor. I can't say the espresso tastes any different but it is satisfying to get the grind, fill and tamp right for the single wall and see the results on the pressure gauge. The double wall filter basket is useful when someone gives me ground coffee--too fine for the french press but I can make a decent Americano using the double wall filter.

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Originally Posted by jm2e

Care to elaborate on how a bottomless portafilter is necessary? I thought it was just a steeze thing.
Care to elaborate on your distribution tool of choice, and why it's better than a little finger sweeping before tamping? Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

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bottomless PF is not necessary for world class espresso. what it is necessary for is diagnosing problems in your extraction that would otherwise keep your espresso from being world class. if you can pull perfect shots, you don't need a bottomless PF, any PF will do. if you are struggling right now with shot consistency, there is some likelihood that you have problems in your grind, tamp, or distribution. a bottomless pf will reveal those issues because you can watch the extraction happen in real time (half the basket will be blond and the other half will be dark, or you can see gushers, or whatever). for the first part of the espresso learning curve - getting from mediocre, futzy amateur to consistently good, a bottomless pf is pretty clutch.

my favorite distribution tool of choice is the love of christ jesus, which spreads everywhere.

just kidding it's a $2 dissection needle. don't waste money on fancy distro tools, that's a fool's game

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Originally Posted by tgapp

just kidding it's a $2 dissection needle. don't waste money on fancy distro tools, that's a fool's game

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Hey now. Don’t you use a - not so fancy - distro tool?

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Originally Posted by Doremite

Hey now. Don’t you use a - not so fancy - distro tool?

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the $20 on amazon is okay, that works decent. it's good if you're under-dosing your baskets i guess, which i end up doing a fair bit:

https://www.amazon.com/Coffee-Distri...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

but yeah like those $150 ones you see all the time, that's dentist shit right there

One more thing i started to do is weighing the grounds, 18g, then grind starting with a completely empty grinder, this way i have fresh beans every time.
25-35 seconds, 1:1 ratio espresso to beans.

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Originally Posted by rod9301

One more thing i started to do is weighing the grounds, 18g, then grind starting with a completely empty grinder, this way i have fresh beans every time.
25-35 seconds, 1:1 ratio espresso to beans.

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Meaning you are pulling out 18g of liquid in that time range? I am at more like 1.5-1.75 ratio, low to mid 30s extraction.

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Originally Posted by tgapp

just kidding it's a $2 dissection needle. don't waste money on fancy distro tools, that's a fool's game

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This. Distribution (i.e. breaking up clumps and ensuring consistency) can be done very simply, and proper tamping technique should take care of the rest.

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Originally Posted by Doremite

Meaning you are pulling out 18g of liquid in that time range? I am at more like 1.5-1.75 ratio, low to mid 30s extraction.

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That's correct. I like very thick espressos

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Originally Posted by rod9301

That's correct. I like very thick espressos

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"ristrettos" if you wanna be a technical ass about it

i also like around 1.5 to 1.75, though scott rao (the king of all coffee snobs) drinks his at 3:1 ratios.

I do wonder if my finger sweeping and tamping technique is bad. I’m usually crowning pretty big when I grind 17g into my 54mm double filter. Then I gently sweep back and forth, trying not to let much fall out. My goal is to flatten it out and fill in any gaps along the perimeter. Then I tamp. Not sure if I should care how much force I use. I’ve read that the difference between 30lbs and 100lbs is insignificant.


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I found that out was pretty hard to tamp perfectly vertical so the coffee surface was horizontal.
If it wasn't, water would follow the path of least resistance and didn't extract so the coffee.

So i bought a tamper that has an adjustable stop, makes it Impossible to not be vertical, and with the stop, you get the same pressure every time.
On the other side of the tamper there's an adjustable distribution tool.

Amazon, 58mm Coffee Distributor & Tamper, MATOW Dual Head Coffee Leveler Fits for Portafilter, Increased Adjustable Depth- Professional Espresso Hand Tampers



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Wife is wanting to look at this again after I tapped out last time. She has narrowed down to the Gaggia Classic Pro and stand alone grinder vs Breville Barista Express. I assume that most here would recommend the Gaggia? Is the Gaggia any easier or harder to pull a decent shot than the Breville?

I just worry about ANY combined ANYTHING. If the grinder dies, the rest is junk too.

if you dont like the ginder, but do like the machine, you are also screwed.

Plus side: you MIGHT save a few bucks or a bit of counter space

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Wife is wanting to look at this again after I tapped out last time. She has narrowed down to the Gaggia Classic Pro and stand alone grinder vs Breville Barista Express. I assume that most here would recommend the Gaggia? Is the Gaggia any easier or harder to pull a decent shot than the Breville?

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don't get the one with the combined grinder. that's dumb.

also add the crossland cc1 on to your list. about the same price as the gaggia classic but it steams milk better.

get a standalone grinder. cheapest bestest options are hand grinders if you can stomach the idea of having to earn your brews

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Originally Posted by jm2e

I’m definitely learning that my budget machine (Breville Bambino) and budget grinder (Breville Smart Ginder Pro) are going to keep me wondering if I’ll ever really dial things in.
Also wondering if a Flair with pressure gauge would be much better.
The auto steam wand on the Bambino is so good it’s likely to be the main thing keeping me on this machine.


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I just bought a Bambino plus, and the auto steaming feature is awesome.

I'm trying not to fall into the rabbit hole of espresso. When I see the merits of thousand dollar grinders argued on the internet, I'm happy to be in a situation where (besides skiing, of course) I didnt spend so much money on stuff like this that I could stop working seven years ago.