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Actually, they are missing quite a few from what I can tell, even a few that had fatalities. Snowy Torrents doesn't have everything either. Some things just slipped through the cracks I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
But still, using accidents in the area to give them an excuse to expand is dumb. AB needs to expand parking, not terrain.
Probably a lot more than east wall since it's not as exposed to the wind and I don't believe has as many massive boulders to bury. That traverse they have planned to go right across the middle of em should be pretty fkn sweet though. Snow boarder post holes, 200vf of beater traverse lines. Sweet!Quote:
Originally Posted by The SnowShow
Where would they put the cars?Quote:
Originally Posted by shredgnar
Better to shuttle from somewhere.
They expect that traverse to appear "organically" from skiers and riders trying to traverse back to pollywog. Skiers have done it (super-polliwog)for years and some gotten busted for it. It's pretty dumb because you only ski the upper third of the runs then traverse forever with a bunch of sidestepping.Quote:
Originally Posted by GPP33
I hope they open the terrain that no one skis right now under the alleys. There are some pretty fun cliffs in there. If there is a silver lining to this whole thing, that is it.
I keep on showing up to post but shredgnar keeps saying everything I had to say. :)
I would predict a "organic" bootpack to that base of the Beavers lift from the bottom of a traverse skiers left out of the gullies. I think you could even traverse all the way to the top of some of the gullies if you hauled ass along king cornice.
The worst part of this expansion IMHO is that they aren't putting the lift all the way to the bottom of the valley. I asked multiple times why and it was a mix of BS excuses, basically comes down to not wanting to fuck with the wetland mitigation. The said lack of snow down low, too steep/difficult terrain, as their reasons. I guess it'll slow people down from tracking out the Gullies though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
You are welcome.
I noticed that last night when we were checking out the map, looks like the rope at the bottome of Pali will be moved down hill.Quote:
Originally Posted by shredgnar
We used to call that "Janitors Only" or "Lower Atomic", named after the longstanding tradition of the "Atomic Janitors" who lived in the A-Frame and skied every day. I'm guessing that tradition is long gone as the janitors are probably all Mexis these days?Quote:
Originally Posted by shredgnar
My copies of the Snowy Torrents are in storage because I live in a van down by the river, so Summit might wanna fact check me when he gets back stateside, but the "6 fatalities in Gullies/Beavers" goes roughly as follows:
2 fatalities in the 2nd Steep Gully in the 80s and another in the 2nd in '96. A fatality in the 4th Steep Gully in 2000 (?) and the one several years ago in the 1st. The other was in the Snakepit in '93.
that brings back some memories place I worked had lots of chicken scratch all over the walls, powder days were listed out by winners and amounts, it was a friend of someones so they wrote "one dead beavers" for 96Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace Hardslab
Plus another in 2010 in in #1 https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/a...=118&accfm=invQuote:
Originally Posted by Trace Hardslab
Another just a little further down the ridge in '03 or '04 and a full burial the same year that survived in #4. Can't find either on CAIC, CAIC and Snowy Torrents are a good resource, but neither includes every accident or even every death.
For the record, I believe that there have been more people involved in inbounds avalanches at AB than out of bounds in the Gullies or Beavers. If you count the 15 involved in a slide in Zuma and the guy in the first alley. To think that AB will protect us from slides by bringing this area inbounds is a little nieve. More traffic=more problems, and they know that, so they'll be extra cautious in opening.
I've even been told by some that there might be a season (this season or next) where the area (Gullies and Beavers)will be closed to the public while work is being done on avy mitigation and building the lift.
It would be great if they started a volunteer early season bootpacking program like at Highlands or Copper.
Yeah, that's the same one I was talking about from "several years ago".Quote:
Originally Posted by shredgnar
In addition to the inbounds disasters shredgnar mentions above, I think there's been a couple other inbounds fatal slides at the Basin. A patroller was killed in a slide in the lower lenawee parks area in the 60s. Don't know if it's on the trail map but the slope bears his name, Gentry (sp?). Another patroller(?) was killed on the Pali in the 70s.
The avalanche history of the region is long and bloody. Every slope has a story. Some have horror stories.
I forget how the Turbo story goes, but was that inbounds?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace Hardslab
Turbo was killed on Kelso Mtn in October of '84.
His partner from that fateful day still lives in Montezuma and skis the Basin & surrounding backcountry all the time.
Which aspect on Kelso was that on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace Hardslab
The north side, the big slope visible from the highway.
Couldn't remember, jumped off the rock, but never stopped to read the plaque. RIPQuote:
Originally Posted by Trace Hardslab
Good to know. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Trace Hardslab
It's nice to have the CAIC Online DB but incidents prior to 96 or so aren't in there. I was listing off a few late 80s/ early 90s fatalities to a friend last year and he was surprised that he'd never heard of them. Same with this Kelso incident for me, just before my time.
There is also the Avalanche.org DB. That goes back to 98.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitchell333
AAA/CAIC are working on getting the older accidents on to the avy.org site. Its a slow process that requires $$$.
Meanwhile, I know I have been on 2 recoveries in the AB steep gullies area over the years. I think they were in the late 90's.
Abasin announces plan to open Beavers/Steep Gullies: Posts map with "hike-back" option and limited opening next season.
http://arapahoebasin.com/Abasin/moun...llies.aspx#map
http://arapahoebasin.com/ABasin/imag...s-map_orig.jpg
Sweet! Looks like the terrain below the Alleys is in play.
Sweet! Can't wait to hit traverse track ruts in the middle of one of the gullies!
Where's the traverse in the middle of the alleys? Isn't it at the bottom?
So fucking dumb that they can't put a lift in to service the whole area. A ski area expecting it's clientele to skin back to the lift after accessing the best terrain is pathetic. Al can't even fuck it up right.
SnowShow, look at the gates. Now imagine lazy fucks who don't want to hike 30 minutes out. Ski the top half, traverse out. They need to not put gates there.
There might have been environmental impact restrictions at the bottom. Its a major waterway.Quote:
Originally Posted by ULLRismyco-pilot
The same waterway that is riddled with mining waste and flows directly under multiple lifts and a village in Keystone?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
I think it looks sweet but I'm not a local.
At this point in the planning process, I can't imagine that those gate locations are accurate.
That would be a nasty fucking traverse across the gullies.
I'd presume they are going to attempt to keep people from crossing the yellow boundary line, aka hitchhiking back?
No more hitchhiking, which is currently much faster than hiking/skinning back to Pali.
Parking has been so bad up there this year. Can't imagine it'll get any better with an expansion.
I'm torn: easier lift access from the chutes = way more people in there vs. the ability to lap that area easier and really get into it without a pain in the ass skin or hike back out.
I don't ski that sidecountry but I'm sure there are some pissed off people who do.
I doubt there is going to be a cop stationed down there telling you that you can't hitch hike.
double has to be twice as fast
I am cool with Abasin building this expansion since I am a backcountry whimp and rarely ski anything too gnar in the backcountry - this expansion really does not impact me at all. If anything I will now be able to ski lines I never dared to ski before!
I think this is good - the pow will now get tracked out more slowly on pow days and people will be more spread out around the mountain.
I am more curious about where ABasin expects to park all of these people!! The lots are already full a lot of the time, even when the mountain doesn't seem that busy.
Also, why are they getting rid of the Norway chair?!? That lift is actually much more convenient and a little bit faster than Lenawee. It doesn't make any sense to remove Norway. That lift is a good alternative on busy days and is much more convenient to access this new terrain and Zuma cornice / west wall.
Not sure why the EPA would give a shit about a lift there. Heck, due to massive pollution, Keystone has to restock the trout every spring to be able to keep fly fishing on their list of guest activities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
Below where they are putting the lift, and their yellow line, is some pretty decent terrain. Their excuse for not putting the lift all the way to the bottom was that they couldn't offer a green or blue slope all the way down to the lift. I call BS. They also said that there is less snow below that level, once again BS. I do believe that they were just too cheap to deal with mitigating the wetlands area at the bottom.
Below where they are putting the lift, and their yellow line, is some pretty decent terrain. Their excuse for not putting the lift all the way to the bottom was that they couldn't offer a green or blue slope all the way down to the lift. I call BS. They also said that there is less snow below that level, once again BS. I do believe that they were just too cheap to deal with mitigating the wetlands area at the bottom.
Exactly. Enviro impact restrictions.
A truly constructive comment. Clearly you were involved in the planning and environmental impact process ...NOT.Quote:
Originally Posted by ULLRismyco-pilot
... Thom