Actually I would love to see a Mag-Lev train. Those things would kick serious ass, and cut the commute to what, 20 minutes from Downtown to say Dillon?
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Actually I would love to see a Mag-Lev train. Those things would kick serious ass, and cut the commute to what, 20 minutes from Downtown to say Dillon?
Selective widening? So we're looking at different sections where the highway goes from 2 lanes to 3, then a few miles later it goes back down to 2? That's great. There will be a backup at each one of those when it goes from 3 to 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by homerjay
Just for reference, how is the traffic in UT on the way to the ski resorts? If it isn't bad, then you have your answer right there- $1000 season passes.
problem w/ mag-lev is the change in elevations along the roadway. those that exist right now have very little change in grade. although 20 minute travel would kick ass
Lloyd: It's 8 miles of access road up a dead end canyon. Different beast entirely.
Dude: PSHAW. I spit on your elevations:
http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/AirForceTBM.jpg
Why not to Breckenridge over Boreas Pass? The elevation is similar to Hoosier pass, and it'd be shorter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurch
Of course, any solution that requires a 5-mile-long tunnel is DOA, since it would probably cost too much. Either Hoosier or Boreas routes would require going through Breckenridge otherwise, which is already clogged at ski-time rush hours.
and how would that reduce summer traffic, which is way worse than winter traffic? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Christmas
That's it. Drain the Oceans.
Actually, I wasn't. I imagine there would be a variable fee to discourage peak travel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
That I agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Okay, let's modify your game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
You have the option to drive your car up between the hours of 7am and 10am and sit in traffic for 3 hours and back between 3:00pm and 6:00pm at and sit in traffic for 3 hours or you spend three hours round trip at other times of the day. Your car can comfortably fit 3 people and gear, including you.
What do most people do? Sit in traffic. Your cumulative $30 toll will have the same effect on people's behavior, ie nothing. The toll needs to be something outrageous, like > $50 during peak times, UNLESS you have 4 or more people in a car, then the toll is waived. But, I agree that this stinks of exclusivity.
Fee Demo x 100 BEYOTCH!Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
Knock on wood, but apparently I've been driving a different I-70 this year. I've been skiing just about every weekend (granted, its usually only once/wknd) and I haven't taken 3 hrs to get to Summit Co from Boulder. In fact, it hasn't taken more than 2 hours. Maybe its because I'm smart and take US-6 thru the canyon near Golden, but I don't get it. I usually leave at 6:30, and am in SuCo by 8:15-8:30 at the latest. On the way home, I either take off early (before 3:00) or stick around and go home late (5:30-6:00). It isn't that hard.
I can't speak to the summer driving because I haven't ventured up I-70 much then, but the few times I did last year I had no problems.
I don't see how you could force ski resorts to raise their season pass prices. I think that might be collusion (COMMUNISTS!!!!). Also, every year I've been here I've seen the season passes go up 10$/yr. Give it time and the market will equalize itself (season passes will go way up OR CDOT expands I-70 OR numbers of mountain visitors drop OR most likely a combination). I'd say we're pretty close to equilibrium as it is, or maybe I chose my days and hours of travel using my brain and past experiences. (or maybe I'm used to Houston traffic problems)
If it isn't bad, why do we need $1000 passes? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Christmas
The canyon vs I-70 doesn't make much difference, and I can't speak to weekend mornings or evenings because I usually go up Friday night and come back Sunday after ~ 7:00pm.
summer traffic is different, because the times are not as defined. There isn't likely to be traffic going into the mountains, but sunday afternoons/evenings can be brutal. If you drove back at those times on a Sunday and din't hit traffic, you were lucky.
Well, yer fucked. Keep that tank full, buddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Christmas
Just a suggestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
I believe it does make a difference (I-70 vs Us-6). It seems a lot of times there is a huge backup around Evergreen. I know there was a few weeks ago when it took my friend 3.5 hrs to get to A-Basin from Denver and it took me 1hr 45min.
agreed, the buildup on 6 is actually a bit later than on 70 in the AM.
ok, well, what do I know, I'm going from memory of years ago before I started going up on Friday nights.
On the way back, however, the canyon is usually slower, fucking casino monkeys going 20 miles per hour.
Seems like the same conversation we have 2-3 times a year... anyway.....
Anyone notice the traffic getting worse this year? Last weekend the traffic was backed up to Golden. In 5 years, I have never seen that before. I try to go up Friday nights as much as possible, but even then, there is still quite a bit of traffic, but it doesn't really slow ya down.
As for the 6 VS 70 debate, 70 is always faster on the way back. On the way there, it is a toss up, but if 70 gets clogged you can get around it.
I went up Sunday, basically had 70 and abasin to myself. Almost felt like I was missing something important ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by funkendrenchman
On the way back, the backup generally disappears right where 6 branches off, since I-70 goes to three lanes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
That's b/c the Broncos played.Quote:
Originally Posted by golden powder
Correction: the Broncos showed up, the Steelers played.Quote:
Originally Posted by funkendrenchman
Sometimes I wonder whether the throughput of I-70 is greater when it's moving 10 mph bumper-to-bumper, versus 60 mph with sparse traffic. Maybe a partial solution would be to throttle the inbound traffic, kind of like the one-at-a-time onramp stoplights on C-470.
Yeah, I actually only skied half a day because I wanted to see the Broncos go to the XL superbowl. Instead I watched them roll over and play dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by funkendrenchman
I70 is coming to the point where I am happy if I can just stay in second gear! :(
Well I guess immigrants like me are part of the problem too.
How bout opening a lane on the opposite side going in the heavy flow direction.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbd
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbd
Wouldn't it be great if human traffic acted like fluid and speed up through a constriction rather than slow down.
So far, almost the only issues I've seen concern everybodies rush to get up & down the hill w/ lots of great ideas & discussion about how to do it best. But what about some of the other issues; Environmental impacts, economic...???
Environmentally, I-70 has fucked that stretch bad - read some tree rings & note the ones since I-70 was built...
Economically, I'd say a lot of Clear Creek Cnty. was devistated when it was built.
I would have thought there would be a lil' more said about these issues from this crowd.
that's the ticket. I don't know why more people don't look into ski leasing during the winter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
LB's right, though. the Summer sunday evening traffic is demonstrably worse than winter.
Homerjay brings up a great point that whatever proposal is passed needs to get you past Vail. Vail is never backed up due to pure traffic (usually a wreck or avy). However, give it a decade and if we don't do any thing the back up will start in East vail instead of Silverthorne.
meanwhile, I'll be smugly sucking down Sunday beers at my house as all the denvoids and tourons bump and grind their way over the pass. :fm:
If only it were that easy to lease during the ski season. Its really not that affordable unless you can get 8-10 people to go in with you, and you usually have to pay from November thru April, when you don't need it for about 1.5 months of that.
My suggestion is to leave earlier on the weekends (say 5:30-6:00) and hit up the Smiling Moose (or whatever the hell its called) deli off the Silverthorne exit for breakfast.
Yeah, I've thought about that too. [homerdrool]Just imagine, 60 miles of barricades.Quote:
Originally Posted by funkendrenchman
As for throttling the traffic, they already do that (sometimes) by holding traffic at the tunnel. Of course it doesn't really speed things up, but it's a nice gesture.
God that used to be beautiful!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankZappa
I'm pretty sure Hwy 6 was paved before 1960, but I could be wrong.... however 45 years ago there were maybe 10% of the people living in the Front Range compared to now. How many of the posters in this thread are native Coloradans? Hell, how many of you have been there longer than 10 years?
The ski house is a time honored tradition in new England. I have about 5 friends in the greater NYC area who pay for 6 months of Beach house in the Hamptons in the summer and another 6 months of ski house in the winter -- most in VT. I think the problem is that rentals in Summit and Eagle Counties are really ludicrously high and the affordable/geographically desirable ones have years-long waiting lists - if they ever open up. Many places are rented purely on a yearly basis versus a seasonal one. Shit - it was like that 15 years ago.
This is still a mystery to me - that Summit isn't filled with rentals. As said, it's a long tradition around a lot of Vermont mountains to join a ski house, and Tahoe has a lot of houses filled with groups from Frisco. So why do Denver people put up with that Sunday night shit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Christmas
And, fur krist's sake, saying that November thru April in Summit is somehow streching the season just shows how spoiled you are. Don't you get dumps at both ends?
This year we did... but last year would have been a waste of money. I was just saying that for most people, November thru April is longer than needed. With all the holiday crap going on in Nov/Dec, if people come up to ski, its usually a day trip- and traffic isn't bad then anyways. Plus, paying for all of April is tough since A-Basin and Loveland are the only ones open after the second week of April.
That being said, if I could find an affordable rental that would allow me to have my dogs with me, I'd be all over it like stink on shit.
Ummm, I am on year 5 of the seasonal rental. As for affordability, it's all relative. The first year I paid $1200 (6 people and $1200/mo for 6 months) but I was naive then, it's gotten much cheaper. Yes, you do need 8-10 people to get it really cheap, but I now pay ~$600 (or less) for the whole season. Sometimes I have managed to get a 5 month rental (mid-Nov to mid-Apr) and other times it has been for 6 months. Winter Park is a little cheaper and folks up there seem a bit more flexible (I have been in WP the last 2 seasons) but good rentals can easily be found in Wildernest in Silverthorne (where my first 3 were). It may not be "easy", but it isn't exactly difficult either. And I too have a dog.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Christmas
I am happy to give insight or advice to anyone who wants to know more details, just PM me, don't want to derail this discussion much more.
OK, just to put things in perspective, I'm actually thinking of flying out then just to ski A Basin and Loveland. Nuttin' open here. Shit, barely anything open now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Christmas
OK, I'll bite.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankZappa
My environmental ethic has evolved considerably over the past decade or so. I used to believe that preservation of backcountry, species, etc., was a laudable end in itself. Upon reflection, though, I've observed that:
a) Fossil fuels are a momentary interruption in Earth's history, geologically speaking
b) Ecological diversity is actually enhanced by periodic extinction events
c) I'm only here for a few decades more, and don't believe in an afterlife
d) I'm only 1/5-billionth of the total problem (humanity)
e) I like forests, unpolluted streams, uncrowded mountaintops
f) For the time being, I can afford to ski, and it's my favorite activity
From a purely selfish perspective, I think preserving wilderness is a good thing. But also out of selfishness, I want to be able to get there conveniently (i.e. without wasting much more of my remaining time sitting in traffic).
One solution would be to get rid of some of those other "gapers" (via tolls, traffic throttling, raising lift ticket prices, backcountry permits, fee demos, whatever). But my sense of fairness tells me that this isn't a good solution; after all, I'm just one of the gapers myself, and why should I have some preferential access over the other 4 million front rangers? Should money buy access to federal lands? Doesn't seem right.
So, we're left with increasing traffic flow, providing more parking, opening more lift-served terrain, basically what's going on now. Things like monorails and buses will help make the Colorado day-tripper experience incrementally better, so I'm vaguely in favor. Ecologically, though, I don't really care one way or the other.
In the long (geological time) term, the I-70 corridor will recover its pristine beauty. I'll be long gone, though (and so will the cars and our current hyper-energy-hungry society). For now, I'll keep driving to the slopes in the crowds, since that's what I like to do, and there are plenty of uncrowded mountains and valleys to satisfy my summertime wilderness needs. Good enough.
As for economic impact: that area has never had a long-term stable economic base anyway, at least not since Europeans settled the area, so I don't consider that an issue. I'm sure those of you trying to make a living in the area would disagree, but that's life in a free-market economy. Flame away...
What about installing a conveyor belt on top of the highway that moved at a constant 45 miles per hour?
A transit system is the only solution.
Luckily I live in Bailey, on the 285 side of things and get to use that road to access most mountains without much traffic to deal with. I would be sad to see 285 become a new I-70. I would not be sad to see a train or futurisitic train blowing by me at 100 mph, on 285 or I-70. Seems worth the $$$$$ to me.
Why are Americans so stubborn about their damn cars and where and when to drive them?
I found the ultimate solution to the problem earlier this year. Move. :D Once funken and I were in the car for 5 hours coming home from Vail. Once skiing becomes that large of a chore I start to dislike it. You have to battle crowds to getto the hill, you have to battle crowds on the hill, you have pay to park. It's a joke. I was really getting soured on skiing. It was just too much effort for not enough reward out there. Now I jump in the car, drive 25 miles in 25 minutes, park a few hundred feet from the lift, never pay a dime to park and walk onto every lift. All-of-a-sudden I'm in love with skiing again.