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I'd change my vote to this one but alas, vote changing is not allowed (I voted no.) I'm not really sure why the author of this poll chose to include TGR in the title at all, as I do not find the two simular in any way other than having top athletes in their films.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Suit
In fact, Cberg, you have made us all stupider by posting this. I award you no points, and my God have mercy on your soul.
I included TGR because I thought that last year's release seemed Warren Millerish too. I didn't hate it, but I liked some of the past TGR films a lot better. Harvest for example. Kreitler and Jones killing it. One of the best segments ever. High Life too, with Sage killing it. And I liked some of the other ski and snowboard movies from the same year better too. If the new flick is different and better, then shame on me.Quote:
Originally Posted by PacRimRider1
Yeah, a lot better than last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by cberg
Haven't seen the TGR film- still got a few more weeks till it makes it to Seattle, but as for MSP- I definitely thought it to be a downer compared to many of their past movies. There were certainly a few segments that stood out above the others, but the movie overall just didn't "flow"Quote:
Originally Posted by cberg
I've always enjoyed their music selection- but aside from Sweatshop Union at the end of the film, I found the music to be "lacking" inspiration, adrenaline, movitation, groove- whatever you want to call it. Mainly I think the observations from those of us at the Seattle premiere were that it seemed like the movie was 'cut and pasted' this year. although the darren rhalves segment was funny- it really lent it down that warren miller road. and to only show two minutes of tahoe's incredible winter :nonono2: give me the pow- not gs racing down the fjords. And I wouldn't mind if they incorporated a bit more snowboarding- the sunset shots at whistler were prime! a little diversification is a good thing.
This is a great thread.
I think most core skiers are ready for the next progression of movies......
IMO goes something like this: Just regular dudes, hunting for pow (on skins not helis) and doing it with good partners.
I like the idea of the grassroots "little guy" movie companies, who also have jobs or classes to go to. Cold Smoke Awards (www.coldsmokeawards.com) is doing just that. A place where regular dudes can share, not SHOW OFF, the kick ass season they just had.
Of course we are all suckers for anything skiing related in the fall, and that is probably why the same style of films continue to succeed.
I guess it is really our choice anyway. How many of us have baught a DVD from the big dogs? and how many from the unknown little guy? We have power in our dollar, just like power in our vote. V.O.R.D. vote out republicans and democrats
Anyway, if I were to make a ski movie, it would be about me traveling the country, skiing for fun, getting a ton of face shots, and running for president......All at the same time :D
J- there are generally two types of editors. There are the guys who focus on storytelling, and the guys who focus on graphics and effects. Usually the guys with storytelluing skills don't give a damn about flashy effects, and usually the effects gurus don't know anything about story.Quote:
Originally Posted by meatdrink9
Also- most of that stuff isn't created by just one editor. There's usually an editor, AfterEffects guy, and one or more graphic designers working on a project. Plus, those facilities cost money. Check what some of your clients pay to use a Discreet Fire system for a day. And that's for a 30 second spot. Than ask Frozen how that would compare to the budget for a TGR film.
I agree. I've now seen it several times, and it addresses much of what people are compaining about. It's flows much better, gives you a sense of the local crews, and is somewhat closer to Immersion than most of the recent films. Most, if not all, of the people I've talked with at the shows have really liked it. Very little in it that I didn't like, and I mean very little.Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenwater
Not to pile on too much, but yes, this years film is different and better. Soul Purpose was Warren Miller-ish: blantant corporate shots and segments, and didn't flow as a movie. This year is different, and much better, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by cberg
Until you realize that watching regular dudes ski is boring, and that skinning for pow = a very short movie since you won't get many high quality shots. Snowmobile access is different, as we've seen lately that plenty of filming is going on via sled accessed terrain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kya
I agree that some footage of pros killing it inbounds is good. Saw Seth last year ripping up WH20 on both hardpack bumps and a powder day and it was sugary sweet to watch. But then watching that same guy ripping AK and throwing down big backflips is also awesome. Whoever said that before, I agree that Yearbook didn't make more of an impression on me than High Society (except the Abma's insane rock line and the Sarah Burke nurse part). Haven't seen this years outings of TGR or MSP. Some of the lower budget trailers look awesome though, can't wait to see Echo and TBCrisis. Not sure who it was, but the helmet cam pointing backwards footage looks rad off one of this years films. Hadn't seen that before. I don't mind TGR and MSP films at all, but I don't regularly buy them and usually skip the jibage. I don't think they're bad though, but definitely can get formulaic AT TIMES. Oh, and I secretly enjoy WM films, even though I know I shouldn't and it makes me less gnar.
Hey Kya, the boys in the TGR (and MSP) flicks, at least the big mountain stuff I work with, are just regular dudes. They just loved their sport so much, and got so good at it, someone decided to support thier habit. They really aren't about "showing off" at all. The big lines are far too humbling for that. I guy like Nobis for instance is just interested in seeing how far he can take it, and loves to challenge himself. Take away the camera, and these guys do the same lines. No dis intended on your point at all, I just hate to see people think the the big guns in the sport somehow have less soul because they are now getting paid to do it. Sarge.
Good point Sarge.
Oh, and although skinning for pow is not something I wanna watch, Skiing pow is something I could watch for hours. Seriously. that is what really gets me stoked for winter is the pow segment. I end up re-winding that fucker and watching it over and over and over.
As a non-jibbing non-hucking skier, I really don't see myself going flippy spinny switch sole grind or dropping an 80 footer. What I totally relate to and what makes me wet is the snorkel segment.
Hopefully there's sweet pow in Tangerine Dream.
Maybe someday TGR will fulfill my wish and make a 100% POW MOVIE using all the outtakes and extra pow footage from over the years.
C'mon guys, you got the footy allready paid for - just splice and dice.
Has any major ski movie been 100% pow??
I think this could be a revolutionary product (and relatively cheap to make).
No offense taken, but I don't recall stating that they did have less soul then anybody else. I was just saying that maybe the core skiers are tired of watching the repetetive segments (not crummy skiing) over and over again.Quote:
Originally Posted by sarge1957
Aren't you a powder skier? Haven't you heard of quality over quantity?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bum Z
I think you missed my point. Yeah, who wants to watch two guys skin for six hours and then ski for like ten minutes. That is not what I am saying.
Go to tech talk and check out my post about "sled help."
I think watching regular dudes rip is more inspiring then the pros who ski almost everyday all winter. I think it is more impressive to be a teacher, accountant, nurse, fire fighter, ect. but still bag 14,000 foot peaks on a regular basis. Again, not to diss the pros pulling off some sick stuff.
I love watching the TGR and MSP movies, but I think the main problem is they have to crank out a new movie every year. This just isn't a formula conducive to creativity. You can make some incremental changes from year-to-year, but when you're under a tight schedule like this it seems like you can't just do something completely different from one year to the next. I don't make movies so I could be totally off base, but that's what I suspect.
HAHA, yea Frozen, go ahead and tell everyone how much it costs to edit a film. The Tangerine Dream sucks and TGR is so Warren Miller. fuck man, i'd take that as a compliment. Warren Miller is sick but more often than not the skiing isn't jaw dropping. And Tangerine Dream seems to have a shit load of jaw droppers in it. So, please add another part to the poll that says. "TGR is Warren Miller with better skiing" and i think that's probably the best compliment anyone in the ski industry could have. It seems to me that more people should appreciate the films that reflect the sport that they love. Whether they like them or not. By talking shit about how all ski movie suck, you're basically saying that skiing is a shitty sport. Especially when you add a statment like, "everyone in the ski industry should watch LAME and Futureproof" all that really says to me is, maybe you'd sleep better at night if only you were a snowboarder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plakespear
That's a perspective of an outsider looking in. It's definitely possible to incorporate a lot more motion graphics in ski films. The only real problem is how time consuming it is, but that problem can be overcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plakespear
So if I say an ad in Powder sucks like the one with the guy who is crazy about his gloves then I hate skiing and should snowboard? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by HotTate
No one ever said it was the skiing that sucks it's how it's been portrayed in comparison to snowboard films. That said I'll reiterate that I'm stoked for the new TGR film and I'm buying tickets at lunch.
TGR movies kick ass.
It seems MSP is able to squeeze more footage of actual skiing in there flicks but, TGR has way more skills in the editing/cinematography dept. There movies are much easier on the eyes than an MSP flick. Real pretty to look at.......you know? Like a lot of movies where the beauty of how it was shot and how it ended up being edited is so totally gorgeous that the content doesn't even matter. You just can't take your eyes off it. It's eye candy.
I just think that there are better ways to critique a film without putting down another film company. If you dont like Warren Miller, fine. If you're a MSP fan and dont really like TGR that much, ok. There's more than enough ski films out there that you should be able to find ONE that stokes you out. That's all any film maker can ask for. It's not about Powder awards and feeling like you're the best film company out there. You just like to hear that some people got stoked to ski when they watched the film. And if Warren Miller or MSP or team 13 do that for you, i say great! You're a skier! You like to watch snowboard flicks, me too. I just really dont like it when people claim that there isn't one ski film out there that's new and progressive. There has to be one.
I think most skiers that post here will watch and enjoy pretty much any film with skiing in it. TGR rocks and we all dig TGR flicks. shit, without TGR where would we post all this bullshit? absorb the constructive criticism and use it to make better movies.
I think the poll clearly shows people like TGR. And I'd guess that many of the 15% that voted no would still go to a TGR premiere. So everything be OK.
Totally, but sometimes on this forum i feel like people get pretty negative on the sport of skiing itself. I love it when skiers stoke eachother, that's how creativity flows and progressive shit gets made/stomped. I really dont feel like alot of this shit is constructive at all. How does calling TGR and MSP "sellouts" and "Waren Miller-ish" constructive? You just put down 3 very good film companies in one subject header.
I didn't start the thread, but I was pretty damn curious to see if people shared my feelings on ski movies in general. I had a feeling they don't, and this thread confirmed it. So I'm glad someone started the thread so I could find out for sure.
sad isn't it
I like MSP and TGR, and I like Warren Miller. Sure it's cheesy, but it beats watching lost or whatever the fuck else is on telly. In fact, I'm going to the Warrne Miller premeire on Friday.
So there.
That's just it. I think with one guy (the right guy) all of that stuff can be done inhouse. They'd have to pay bank for them though. Believe me as a graphics kid I understand how time consuming that stuff is and I understand the edit process (I'll be spending 3 of my next 5 work days in a post house). Nowadays you don't need a huge Discreet Fire system, you don't need an Avid, etc.. I'm sure TGR is editing this thing inhouse with Final Cut and After Effects. I know kids that are evil with After Effects. I think that would be enough. Screw budget, put that type of person on the payroll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plakespear
To me it seems like ski flicks are pretty worthless on the story aspect and I don't think they're going to get better unless the story creates itself through some extraordinary situation that occurs while filming. That's why everybody calls it porn. There's no plot or story and if there is it generally blows. It's eye candy. So it would be cool to see companies take the eye candy and editing to the next level.
I cry myself to sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by HotTate
This is something I think TGR does better than any other company.Quote:
Originally Posted by meatdrink9
I'd definetly like to see more.
I dunno, I enjoy watching any ski movie. TGR has the best style I think, overall. About this creative stuff, I kind of see where the view is coming from, but I don't think I'll ever get tired of watching Nobis rip AK lines year after year. Sage is great too.
To the person wondering about a pure powder movie, check out "Sinners" a movie by Bill Heath. There's a long thread about it if you search for Heath or Sinners on here.
Well, in all fairness to my fellow magnions, skiing magazines and movies are really not what we're in the sport for, and there is no time of the year when we are grumpier than October.Quote:
Originally Posted by HotTate
Once the snow flys and the bullwheels turn, I think a lot of people's opinions will soften up.
Or we're just a bunch of asshats. :FIREdevil
Every ski movie I've ever seen has been basically the same, but I still love watching them.
I'd vote for that one. Add it to the poll.Quote:
Originally Posted by joshbu
WHAT SORT OF DRUGS ARE YOU TAKING??? I want some to derail my reality as much as it has yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by cberg
"Future Proof" is worlds different then MSP's or TGR's films in that it doesn't show any skiers. And that's the only real difference. Period. Instead of skier specific segments, you get snowboarder segments, followed by another snowboarder segment, and then followed by yet another snowboarder segment. Whoopie.
True, I think the soundtrack is better then most of the skier movies, but they're all still basically the same movie, with just different people in each "__(insert skier's or snowboarder's name here)___" segment.
... (bump) I thought this post by Hot Tate sums up this whole thread pretty well. All the criticisms and arguments pro and con are great. They're only personal opinions, and good feedback. We all want different things in our ski movies. There are alot of movies out there to choose from, if you go back a few years. Personally, I like alot of the TGR and MSP stuff and get bored with Warren Miller sometimes, since they try so hard to appeal to EVERYONE. I don't like every segment of every movie, and you probably don't either. This was/is a cool thread, and pretty interesting to read thru. And it really makes you appreciate the stuff that you get stoked on when you do watch it. If you think you have a better idea for a movie, then go out and make it, or get involved in making one. Somebody must be doing something right, because skiers keep going to the shows and buying the DVDs. And giving the filmmakers constructive criticism is good too, but realize that they have to earn a living as well, and taking chances with untried creativity can be a little risky sometimes. Vote with your wallet and the filmmakers will take note...Quote:
Originally Posted by HotTate
This is what ski movies should be like:
http://www.pyleblanc.com/PY%27s%20library.htm
Could not agree more...as good as it gets...If he's skiing in a movie, I'll buy it. Same with Perrot and Seth... :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Premier71