25/26 gear rumors thread

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

Wrapping my head around it. Sorry to think out loud. So standing neutral, the cable is pulling tension evenly — but since the cable slides in the anchor points, the more you flex your boot, the upper opens vs the lower pulling tighter.

Meaning, it naturally can achieve the buckling mentioned above without need to be preset super tight around the ankle? I think I understand. Will be interested to try a set at some point. Thx for the response.

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This is an interesting concept as it means you are flexing the front of the cuff open but not flexing the rear spine as much. This action would be counter to what the power strap is doing (pulling the spine). Does it come with an elastic strap to work with this cuff give?

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Originally Posted by tompietrowski

The pronated vs supinated comment was interesting as that is not how boots are made. I wondered if perhaps that was referring to built in sole canting which some race boots do employ?

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Boots are definitely made with some degree of canting and cuff alignment, or at least they effectively create some based on fit.

I would say Zero G are canted inwards with a neutral cuff alignment. The new Salomon shift alpha is canted outwards with a cuff alignment pushing outwards. Vulcan’s had very outwards cuff alignment. Onenerdykid has mentioned some atomic race boots come with wack canting that he has to correct for athletes.

I’ve not thought about this beyond that boots all feel like they have different canting and cuff alignment because they feel like they do. Perhaps there is another factor that adds to this.

I notice with shoes all the time that they are all canted differently.

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Originally Posted by altacoup

^^^
I totally agree. I was able to live with the extra volume in the recon by adding a thicker liner. But it always takes me a few turns to adjust to the more upright stance compared to my Dobermans. Do any of the other flexes come with tech fittings? My lady is also interested in these but doesn’t like a [emoji637][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]/[emoji637][emoji640][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]] flex.


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In year one it will only be the 140 so you would be cutting the lower shell (we added scribe lines to the shell to aid this) but we will have additional flex options in year 2

Can you change the forward lean at all? Rocking 13* and loving it.


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double boa, hahahahahahaha I can’t stop laughing


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Originally Posted by SkiLyft

Can you change the forward lean at all? Rocking 13* and loving it.


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Not on the cortex line no. The new recon and anthem will have adjustable forward lean

Attachment 508744

6 buckles will be > double BOA

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Originally Posted by tompietrowski

We will offer a 140 unisex boot which has the tech tie (more flex’s will follow in this model) and then in the men’s we will have 130,120 and 110 and for women 125, 105 and 95.

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Will this come in a 29.5 for the Sasquatch among us? Dying to try a pair, will they be available online or select shops only?

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Originally Posted by tompietrowski

In year one it will only be the 140 so you would be cutting the lower shell (we added scribe lines to the shell to aid this) but we will have additional flex options in year 2

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Wow. I can’t think of a single boot (beside plug boots) that offer cutting lines. Curious as to how it’ll be to remove the upper with boa to cut. I’ve always cut my Doberman plugs down, both 130 and 150. Not only to give them a little suppleness but to make them possible to get on and off without heating them. After years of being completely off my radar, k2 is killing it as of late. The reckoner series completely changed my mind as to how a soft flexing ski can still absolutely charge. The construction is so supple but still capable. I went from my last pair of k2s being the tnc neon skis in high school, to now having 5 pairs in the quiver. If you make a reckoner 110 with the tnc neon colors they’d sell like crazy. That said the current reckoner graphics are sick. Too bad k2 did the retro tnc graphics on the pinnacle series which were absolutely garbage.


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Originally Posted by altacoup

Wow. I can’t think of a single boot (beside plug boots) that offer cutting lines. Curious as to how it’ll be to remove the upper with boa to cut. I’ve always cut my Doberman plugs down, both 130 and 150. Not only to give them a little suppleness but to make them possible to get on and off without heating them. After years of being completely off my radar, k2 is killing it as of late. The reckoner series completely changed my mind as to how a soft flexing ski can still absolutely charge. The construction is so supple but still capable. I went from my last pair of k2s being the tnc neon skis in high school, to now having 5 pairs in the quiver. If you make a reckoner 110 with the tnc neon colors they’d sell like crazy. That said the current reckoner graphics are sick. Too bad k2 did the retro tnc graphics on the pinnacle series which were absolutely garbage.


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The boa cuff is attached by two screws in the pivots and then too screws in the rear spine. Removes this four and you can take the cuff off to cut down the lower as needed.

We have been trying to get some limited graphics going for a while so hopefully you might see some cool skis coming again!

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Originally Posted by GoldenBC

This is an interesting concept as it means you are flexing the front of the cuff open but not flexing the rear spine as much. This action would be counter to what the power strap is doing (pulling the spine). Does it come with an elastic strap to work with this cuff give?

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irrespective of the boot design setup, the ultimate hinge point is you ankle, so if you are flexing you ankle, the upper buckle location will always transcribe a longer distance than something lower down.

Example… you draw a right triangle, and then Draw a line from the mid point of one sides to the mid point of the hypotenuse, it will be 1/2 as long as the other side.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

irrespective of the boot design setup, the ultimate hinge point is you ankle, so if you are flexing you ankle, the upper buckle location will always transcribe a longer distance than something lower down.

Example… you draw a right triangle, and then Draw a line from the mid point of one sides to the mid point of the hypotenuse, it will be 1/2 as long as the other side.

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I’m not following your triangle analogy.

In an ideal set up, isn’t the front of your cuff flexing with the back of your cuff, ie. staying parallel? If parallel, the top and bottom run of the cable would stay the same length and not change tension. Maybe that’s to idealistic but I do up my boots with the intention of not opening up space behind my leg.

Regardless, why would I need my ankle to tighten when I flex the boot? That is the point where I am pushed back the most and don’t need pressure. I’m more concerned about having my ankle tight when I am neutral or back seat.

Or have I just missed the point and worked myself into the wrong corner with this thought?

Don't worry, I am thinking out loud on this too -- and most certainly NOT the guy with the answers. Just trying to wrap my head around it. Please call out gaps in logic!

Anyhow, See pic and shorter vs longer segments

In an upper boa, it sounds like there is less slack in the system and more even tension between upper and lower anchor points, so as one flexes into the boot, the tension pulls evenly through the stroke, having balanced tension on both the upper and lower anchor points the whole way. And While I don't know, I'd imagine this could lead to the boot being more comfortable in the lift line vs cranked 3rd buckles cutting off circulation.

But regarding the "tightening the ankle as I flex the boot", I think you might be inverting the logic... in theory as I am seeing it, with Boa upper cuffs, the tension stays balanced on the upper and lower anchor points through the whole flex of the boot, rather than either starting or ending with imbalanced tension with a buckle setup -- or to put it aother way, there is less need to ultra crush your 3rd buckle at the top of each run, since the boa will ramp up tension on that location as you flex into the boot.

Of course, not everyone bends their boots to this degree, so may not be a universal problem - But alot of skiers (myself included) struggle with getting their 3rd buckle tight enough for skiing performance but can't stand around with that amount of tension when not actively driving their skis. I do think this design could potentially really help with that (maybe).

The devil is always in the details, and I think that the best performing solution (ie what racers actually end up doing) will probably have their anchor points in different locations vs consumer boots to optimize how the tension is being pulled and how it ramps up at different locations of the leg through the flex of the boot ... ie the pivot points being more of a trapezodial shape vs squares on the consumer versions.


Also... 0 interest in ever owning a boa lower. Its hard enough getting my foot into a normal boot.

My impression is this-- Finally.

My booster strap (the world cup, 3-strap, non-sewn version) flexes wonderfully. It's 20 years old. It's been on like four boots. I often set it tighter than my 4th buckle, allowing the boot to flex at those high angles. I hit the wall at mach looney. I flex into my fourth buckle.

If I'm imagining this BOA to be essentially a pulley system from ankle to booster, the entire shin/calf would flex in unison.

Therefore, if what I am envisioning is accurate, I'd say it's about fucking time. The gap between my third buckle and my booster is now closed. That fourth buckle has always been a hinderance.

Did BOA just extend my booster strap to my ankle in one unison pulley-system line?

Bravo. Because I have been micro-turning my buckles for decades.

Now if you can get Lange to release that magenta limited edition boot posted above with tech toes and a double BOA, I just might pay whore money.

I guess now the final engineering question from my end is this-- is that strap flexible like an old school Booster? Or is it static nylon like a piece of shit velcro strap with a "power buckle"?

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Originally Posted by tompietrowski

If you are struggling to get into the boot you can switch out the stock cable for a longer one. This allows the shell to open wider. We recommend people with limited mobility or a very high instep change to a cable 5cm longer to help open the boot more.

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Could you clarify if a user can fully open the cuff part of the shell to step into it with a liner on the foot? Like in this video - https://youtu.be/BUli9WRIh0A?si=WWQ1c0RophXp2hTT

I ski in lv boots and I can't imagine how to get in a boot differently - especially using intuition wraps. I've been a boa believer (well until now at least), but if it adds struggling to get in and out I will continue to use buckles

I think that the entire BOA unclips. Meaning you can open the tongue like any other boot.

Right?


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Originally Posted by gaijin

I think that the entire BOA unclips. Meaning you can open the tongue like any other boot.

Right?


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tom can correct me if I’m wrong but in another thread he described a pull tab that releases the upper boa. I believe what i circled is said pull tab that allows the cuff to open fully for entry.

Attachment 508748

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Originally Posted by Sashko

Could you clarify if a user can fully open the cuff part of the shell to step into it with a liner on the foot? Like in this video - https://youtu.be/BUli9WRIh0A?si=WWQ1c0RophXp2hTT

I ski in lv boots and I can't imagine how to get in a boot differently - especially using intuition wraps. I've been a boa believer (well until now at least), but if it adds struggling to get in and out I will continue to use buckles

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Tom said he's been stepping into these boots with liners on with no issue.

If the darker comolded plastic on top of the foot is as supple as other K2 boots, and extended down to the toes, I think this boot will be ridiculously easy to put on.

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Originally Posted by turnfarmer

If the darker comolded plastic on top of the foot is as supple as other K2 boots, and extended down to the toes, I think this boot will be ridiculously easy to put on.

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Within reason… lower boa definitely restricts how much a boot opens.

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Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Within reason… lower boa definitely restricts how much a boot opens.

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On the pic from FloridaSnow above, it looks like you can undo the Boa wire from the middle pulley ( the one in between the pinky toe attachment point and the Boa knob). No?

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Originally Posted by waxoff

On the pic from FloridaSnow above, it looks like you can undo the Boa wire from the middle pulley ( the one in between the pinky toe attachment point and the Boa knob). No?

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if you are talking about the lower boa then no. You cannot undo the wire unless you unscrew the holder. Assuming I’m understanding the point you’re asking about.

according to Tom the upper boa can be separated by pull tab for ease of entry.

When you release the low boa by pulling the knob put it goes completely slack. And easily spreads the lower shell apart. I do ski the new boa.

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Originally Posted by FloridaSnow

if you are talking about the lower boa then no. You cannot undo the wire unless you unscrew the holder. Assuming I’m understanding the point you’re asking about.

according to Tom the upper boa can be separated by pull tab for ease of entry.

When you release the low boa by pulling the knob put it goes completely slack. And easily spreads the lower shell apart. I do ski the new boa.

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You understood perfectly correct. Thanks for filling in the details!

Should we just rename this the boa thread?

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Originally Posted by gaijin

My impression is this-- Finally.

My booster strap (the world cup, 3-strap, non-sewn version) flexes wonderfully. It's 20 years old. It's been on like four boots. I often set it tighter than my 4th buckle, allowing the boot to flex at those high angles. I hit the wall at mach looney. I flex into my fourth buckle.

If I'm imagining this BOA to be essentially a pulley system from ankle to booster, the entire shin/calf would flex in unison.

Therefore, if what I am envisioning is accurate, I'd say it's about fucking time. The gap between my third buckle and my booster is now closed. That fourth buckle has always been a hinderance.

Did BOA just extend my booster strap to my ankle in one unison pulley-system line?

Bravo. Because I have been micro-turning my buckles for decades.

Now if you can get Lange to release that magenta limited edition boot posted above with tech toes and a double BOA, I just might pay whore money.

I guess now the final engineering question from my end is this-- is that strap flexible like an old school Booster? Or is it static nylon like a piece of shit velcro strap with a "power buckle"?

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I think this sums up boa cuff really well. At one point in development I even asked if we still needed a power strap. Ultimately we obviously kept it but I still don’t think it’s totally needed and I have found I often don’t do mine up any more.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

The devil is always in the details, and I think that the best performing solution (ie what racers actually end up doing) will probably have their anchor points in different locations vs consumer boots to optimize how the tension is being pulled and how it ramps up at different locations of the leg through the flex of the boot ... ie the pivot points being more of a trapezodial shape vs squares on the consumer versions.

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This is interesting and we tried this straightaway because we were interested to see if we could feel a difference. Ultimately we found if there was any difference it was so small that there really was no advantage to moving the positions of the guides. But I still think with more development this may be something interesting and would potentially allow for some new cuff shapes. I think for freeride boots in particular with an articulating cuff we could do some interesting things.

This is a strange thread,

it sez 24/25 gear rumors, talks about some skis, some BC bindings and then it goes full on into a shitty intro/ presentation for BOA and I think ( ? ) K2 boots

No thanks to this thread I now understand more about BOA,

that BOA is or will be on many brands of boot

whereas I started with the same impression as buddy who posted that every BOA on every snowboard boot he ever used broke,


its not the end loser's fault if they can't figure out WTF is attempting to be communicated, in any case I did for you

https://www.boafit.com/en-us/ski

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Originally Posted by tompietrowski

I think this sums up boa cuff really well. At one point in development I even asked if we still needed a power strap. Ultimately we obviously kept it but I still don’t think it’s totally needed and I have found I often don’t do mine up any more.

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I’m glad you kept it. I guarantee I need it. I use the power strap to make the cuff feel taller. No boot on the market gives me even shin pressure and adequate height without putting the power strap on the top of the tongue. Hawx is close but still need it.

I really look forward to trying this boot out. Colour me intrigued.

As for freeride boots with walk mode, I’m curious to see it get intergrated into the walk mech a la something like Hoji lock. As much as it would probably piss me off having everything connected, I could see it being slick.

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Originally Posted by GoldenBC

I’m glad you kept it. I guarantee I need it. I use the power strap to make the cuff feel taller. No boot on the market gives me even shin pressure and adequate height without putting the power strap on the top of the tongue. Hawx is close but still need it.

I really look forward to trying this boot out. Colour me intrigued.

As for freeride boots with walk mode, I’m curious to see it get intergrated into the walk mech a la something like Hoji lock. As much as it would probably piss me off having everything connected, I could see it being slick.

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Experiment with the power plate when you get the boots.

And yes I have been thinking a lot about how we can incorporate boa in the walk mech. I actually have a few ideas for bfc with this style but less so for mindbender currently.

Double boa is not the only thing happening for next year....time to move on. What's next?

i want to know more about this armada cabrio. anyone? pics?

I've seen hints of a new atomic boot as well, a mix between the CS and Hawx...anyone got any details?

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Originally Posted by stealurface831

Anyone know last on this armada cabrio? Tech fittings and walk mode I assume?


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100 mm

No walk mode, toe only tech fitting.


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Originally Posted by thatdkid

100 mm

No walk mode, toe only tech fitting.


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fuck

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Originally Posted by altacoup

Wow. I can’t think of a single boot (beside plug boots) that offer cutting lines. Curious as to how it’ll be to remove the upper with boa to cut. I’ve always cut my Doberman plugs down, both 130 and 150. Not only to give them a little suppleness but to make them possible to get on and off without heating them. After years of being completely off my radar, k2 is killing it as of late. The reckoner series completely changed my mind as to how a soft flexing ski can still absolutely charge. The construction is so supple but still capable. I went from my last pair of k2s being the tnc neon skis in high school, to now having 5 pairs in the quiver. If you make a reckoner 110 with the tnc neon colors they’d sell like crazy. That said the current reckoner graphics are sick. Too bad k2 did the retro tnc graphics on the pinnacle series which were absolutely garbage.


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^^^this^^^ absolutely having a blast on my 191 Reckoner 110’s. They encourage you to go fast. I would say compliant not soft a bit stronger than soft but I hear ya. I keep reaching for them they’re just a blast. Having a hard time grabbing my other skis.
Was pondering what a slightly stiffer and maybe 50 grams per ski heavier version of the 110 might be like on the way home today.
Definitely open to try the new Cortex dubs.
Although this is killin me as I have a new pair of RS 130’s in the box I haven’t used yet and my Rossi Hi Speeds are rockin it just fine for me. Now K2 builds a boot with substance it sounds like? … knobs or not I like more weight for a resort boot. K2 is back on my radar for sure. This may have already been posted or disclosed but, Tom can you tell us what the weight of the new Cortex is please?


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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

Also... 0 interest in ever owning a boa lower. Its hard enough getting my foot into a normal boot.

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I’m also a person who likes to keep my third buckle uncomfortably tight for performance and pop it open in the lift line. It’s probably just my particular buckles but “performance tight” can take a lot of effort to close which would be easier with the current generation of alpine Boa ratchets.

I’ve been stepping into a Boa boot all of last winter and again this month and it isn’t any harder than the previous version of the boots had been with buckles, I even went down a shell size. Don’t let Boa stop you from skiing a boot that would otherwise fit you well.

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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

Double boa is not the only thing happening for next year....time to move on. What's next?

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Triple boa

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Originally Posted by Crystal Skier

^^^this^^^ absolutely having a blast on my 191 Reckoner 110’s. They encourage you to go fast. I would say compliant not soft a bit stronger than soft but I hear ya. I keep reaching for them they’re just a blast. Having a hard time grabbing my other skis.
Was pondering what a slightly stiffer and maybe 50 grams per ski heavier version of the 110 might be like on the way home today.
Definitely open to try the new Cortex dubs.
Although this is killin me as I have a new pair of RS 130’s in the box I haven’t used yet and my Rossi Hi Speeds are rockin it just fine for me. Now K2 builds a boot with substance it sounds like? … knobs or not I like more weight for a resort boot. K2 is back on my radar for sure. This may have already been posted or disclosed but, Tom can you tell us what the weight of the new Cortex is please?


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The 140 model is 2300g in 26.5

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Originally Posted by byates1

Triple boa

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fucking boa bindings. no lateral release tho.

Omggggg, daddy likes!!! Similar weight to head raptors.