FWIW, the GX Fox builds are about $2000 off... pretty solid deal for GX Transmission with Performance Elite suspension and a good overall build.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandbox
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FWIW, the GX Fox builds are about $2000 off... pretty solid deal for GX Transmission with Performance Elite suspension and a good overall build.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandbox
Where do you see any of this news?Quote:
Originally Posted by robnow
L2P or Live to Play is the biggest Canadian Bike Parts Distributor, and is Norco's parent company and distributor in Canada, as well as International. I dont deal with L2P since moving to USA, but I have not seen any news of them closing down or diminishing their business.
Norco is being distributed by HLC in USA since April 2023.
I always wondered how are Norco bikes thot of down that side of the line ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs
I ask becuz I had once talked to a trek guy at a trek dealer who had spent time working at trek HQ in the the USA and was suprised at the aceptance of Norco when he came back to vangroovy after 10 yrs
I know in Prince George Norco was strong enough brand to exclusively anchor 1 bike store
I think norco's a lot stronger down here than they were ~10 years ago. The optic and sight were both well recieved and seemed to be pretty popular in the u.s. They're still a long ways from being able to anchor a decent size store though. I'd put them roughly on par with a brand like Ibis. Stronger than a brand like Evil, less strong than a brand like Santa Cruz. Considerably less strong than trek / specialized / giant.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
I would be talking > 10 yrs ago I talked to this guy but I wanted the recent perspective of a pretty serious gear bro from both sides of the line which is why I asked Dee Hubbs
Way back in the day i remember Norco made the were kids and cheap bikes so i get where trek guy in the shop was coming from but over the last 25-30 yrs I would put Norco at the kona/ Giant/ Cannondale level but in a town where everybody is freeriding Norco seemed to do really well
if it comes down to spend a big wad of cash on High end 5 figure Ibis/ Yeti/ SC/ or a norco I would say Norco isnt quite there
My American view if Norco is bias. In my Whistler shop years we sold Norco during their rise in the new 27.5 era. The Sight and Range were big 27.5 sellers in 2013, and then the Carbon versions in 2014 really took off. The Optic filled in a short trail void in the their line up in 2016.
Noro admit their distribution model was a patch work solution for USA, and it took them a long time to develop a a proper system, They figured out a warehouse solution in Utah 3 years ago, and strong distributor through HLC last year. This is why I'm surprised to hear rumors of them being in trouble.
They lost funding to the Factory Racing World Cup projects, which hurt the brand and put some really great athlete in a tough spot at the last minute.
XXX you're right about Norco's history. They started in 1964 in Vancouver and supplied Canadian made bikes to a lot of the National department stores. It was a hard stigma for them to overcome when they started to produce premium brand bikes.
Norco DO sell very well in a free ridey kind of place like BC where Feeride was invented on the North Shore so an LBS in BC does very well selling bikes if they can pickup the Norco line, it is a license to print money
The Northern hardware in Prince George did really well selling ONLY Norco yes a hardware store selling norco/ buggy tack/ or a part for that 90 yr old handpump on your grandfather's farm, the Northern closed after 100 years having to compete with big box stores
Norco makes some good bikes for sure but I dunno about the term " premium " to me that would be the SC/ Yeti/ Ibis thing, its an idea that maybe you don't really get until you have had one and so IMO you can't really just hang expensive parts on a frame and call it premium cuz there is just something " intangible ? " about those dentist brands
I know shop bro was averaging 2 " premium " bikes a year in a 7 month season so he dumped his 5 figure Norco pretty quick and went back to the SC and he could ride whatever he wanted
I don't think i would ride a norco but maybe thats also a bias ?
I caught the tail end of a segment on NPR Marketplace yesterday where they were talking about this and specifically mentioned the Kona BOGO deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by bagtagley
Wish I could have heard the rest of it, whoever they were interviewing wrapped up the segment by saying he thought that most of the industry still had 12 months of clearing out inventory before things would be back to normal.
That was Jeff Cayley CEO of WorldWideCyclery, and 12 months seems optimistic unless there are some warehouse fires.Quote:
Originally Posted by singlesline
That's interesting. I had wild-ass guessed a season but he's more pessimistic. See the PSA I posted about the bk auction of Eminent Cycles and their inventory. My bet is there'll be many more bk auctions like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP IN7RO
Eminent declared bankruptcy back in 2021 though. I'd imagine any new bk's would take a while to shake out before they started auctioning off inventory (as opposed to just selling at a discount like kona and plenty of others are doing).Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
That may well be the case but I think that may have been ch 11. If there's some Ch 7s or Canadian equivalents, creditors can seize and auction in a month or so depending on how organized the target companies are. Eg Black Spire.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
I think the recent orange and wiggle/crc bk's were the uk equivalent of ch 11?
Either way, the next year will be interesting (and not in a good way).
Yah all those SSU subsidiaries, Orange, were the UK Ch11 equivalents. I believe GG is also ch11. Still messy but not yet completely throwing in the towel. Although sadly the outcome will likely be ch 7 equivalents.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
anyone got a link to the NPR talk?
Should be one of these, it's a daily show that's a pretty good listen. https://www.marketplace.org/Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion
All the Revved and GG stuff, including molds, were auctioned off last month for what it's worth. I would say the towel is thrown.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
It’s interesting… but my hunch is that anyone who holds off on launching new models might end up in a worse situation.
Kona for example - liquidates inventory because it hasn’t kept with the current trends and therefore didn’t sell well. This damages your brand image and in turn might make it harder to sell your new stuff (if you ever launch anything new).
For example - if Ibis does a little update to the Ripmo that makes it look fresh and new… but Pivot and Santa Cruz hold off on updating the Hightower and Switchblade. Ibis would likely sell more bikes at closer to MSRP.
I get that you don’t want to get caught with a lot of inventory for an old model and that new products take time and money… but bikes feel like fickle enough purchases that some brands may still grab some momentum.
Launch a new bike. Intentionally keep the supply scarce so they sell at MSRP. Get good reviews. Build public perception that “the new Ripmo is sweet but impossible to find”. Sell more bikes at MSRP.
Pretty sure Rocky is doing exactly this with the revamped Altitude. It appears to be in the chute and ready to ship, but a lot of target customers are burned out from the Pandemic frenzy, and just won’t pay exorbitant MSRP right now.
(Just my observations)..
Unless the new bike whitens my teeth and freshens my breath, ‘21-‘23’s are absolutely just fine.
^^^ to that point, I think the current reckoning is about more than just an adjustment after the pandemic insanity. The rate of bike sales during the pandemic was nuts, but I'd argue that it was inflated before the pandemic too.
Since ~2015, lots of people were buying bikes far more often because bikes were becoming obsolete so quickly. But that's mostly done now - there's not nearly as much incentive to upgrade a 2-3 year old bike.
Companies don't need to look back to 2020 to figure out what realistic sales figures look like. They need to look back to 2013 or 2014.
Precisely. My ‘21 was crazy better than the ‘18, which was crazy better than the 14’, etc. But I highly doubt the ‘24 is going to be/feel a whole lot different, just a wee bit more refined.
A lot of the new refinement isn’t from the frame either. For example a float x likely makes most bikes ride better than the older dpx2 or whatever it was called. If you bought a 2023 model of the exact same bike you bought in 2019, there might be some modest improvements.
My conspiracy theory tin hat wonders how many companies have put less into R&D for normal bikes and shifted some of those dollars to E-Bikes. Same goes for companies making components. This seems like it would slow the general pace of innovation for normal bikes (which I do think we’re seeing).
Why don’t we have a new XTR current version is about to be 6 years old? I’m guessing Shimano has had other projects.
That being said - most new bikes are so solid I can’t point to many things and say “yep that’s an issue”. Also there are likely some ebike innovations that will eventually help normal bikes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideit
Yeah, regular bikes are dialed right now. Changes are going to be miniscule, unless a brand got stuck at the back of the line updating during/right after Covid.
It does seem like a lot of companies' effort is improving their ebikes, mostly because there's starting to be more motor options. I've heard Pivot is moving to a modular motor mount that will allow them to change motor specs on the same frames without completely redesigning the bikes - that's kind of an idea of how geometry and kinematics have gotten sorted by the whole motor part is rapidly changing. Even though my current one is very good, I'd still like to upgrade if/when Santa Cruz starts specing Bosch motors, for just better finish/reliability both from the frame and the motor. The geometry probably won't be much different than what I currently have, weight will be about the same, kinematic will get a bit better, but there should be less issues with frame bearings and stiffness plus fewer motor warranty claims. Bike companies must be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of people like me shelling out $$$ for essentially the same bike just to get a new motor system.
I believe any delays in updated bikes would be specifically to protect those brand's retail partners who are still saddled with '22 and '23 inventory. I wonder if component manufacturers will start to delay new product to protect their biggest customers (bicycle brands?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailwind
well the rumour with Kona is that their manufacturer is holding '24 models until they get payment, and that's why the liquidation is taking place....not that Kona's new owners haven't totally gutted the brand over the past few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailwind
I have heard this as well; I'm kinda shocked that Kent Outdoors wouldn't have the cash or access to cash to pay. If that rumor is true, they must have had some serious back payments due.Quote:
Originally Posted by t.odd
Interesting. Thats a bad financial predicament as I wonder what this type of sale does to the value of the new bikes? As previously referenced - NPR is talking about this so it’s not a small story. Brand image matters.
To the earlier point of brands not wanting to have shops stuck with old inventory… I can kinda buy it. If that’s the case, maybe good to defend brick and mortar… but I struggle to think big bike companies will be that altruistic.
When Ibis launches the new Ripmo this year (which seems likely), I doubt they’ll hold it to make sure shops don’t have a lot of old inventory. I think it’s more likely they say “we have a bike we think will be popular and help our numbers, let’s launch it as soon as we’re able to”. Shops would then be stuck with either not pulling in the new model (and potentially missing sales) or brining it in and having more old stock inventory.
As a bike shop - I’d be excited to have a popular product that will sell well… even if I think have existing inventory that’s depreciated.
Pivots “brunch ride” build kits were interesting. Rather than saying “hey we’re taking 30% off our bikes” they launched a new slightly different build and said “hey here is a kinda cool new build kit that’s a good deal”. It’s still a fire sale on their oldest frames but it feels different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t.odd
Maybe a dumb question, but has the same dynamic been playing out in non-mtb cycling segments? It’s been a long time since I’ve shopped for a gravel or commuter type bike, whereas I’m always idly looking at mountain bikes.
My anecdotal impression is that the covid bike boom exploded mountain bike use the most of any segment, but idk.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
some deals, not AS silly discounts, but some for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abies
I bought this. amazing for the price.
https://www.seraphbikes.com/2023-new...-p4637064.html
just added tubeless core, and taped rim and swapped tires and even set up tubeless. Also a 11-36 cassette and its been great
Out here in Utah they're giving away road bikes unless its a 2024 S-werks phantom skunk works dentist model.
I got a used Tarmac special edition with carbon rovals and 2 power meters on it for $1000 this summer. Looks like it was only ever ridden on a trainer (it still had the factory front tire with hairs on it and the rear tire had a nice off camber wear spot in it..)
Do they come in men's sizes?Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Touring_Sedan
size them based on the reach,
KSL score? I’ve been riding a gravel bike on the road but at those prices might buy a roadieQuote:
Originally Posted by sfotex
That's a better deal than my $400 serotta.
Logging back into ksl...