I wonder how Marin is doing, they are in that ‘neither big nor small’ category, which is difficult to navigate in the best of times.
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I wonder how Marin is doing, they are in that ‘neither big nor small’ category, which is difficult to navigate in the best of times.
Kona’s parent company they are gonna sell off Kona. But it looks like they are gonna slash costs deeply in the meantime.
Everything everyone has said about the mentality during the Covid boom rings true. Especially the part about the group think. Add to that the insular nature of hiring practices (ie very little fresh blood from outside the industry) and you have a perfect storm for everyone thinking the high times would continue forever).
Plenty of folks in or next to the industry saw in happening and worried though, including me. It was just that no one listened. I think there was so much missed opportunity when the boom happened due to low stock that everyone felt they couldn’t miss the coming wave. But the wave only lasted 2 years.
Course, on the other hand, I assumed that the home fitness industry would collapse after the Covid boom also. A local Denver company named REP expanded like crazy, and I assumed it would cause them to go out of business. In actuality, they did awesome, and are even adding a European facility. So what do I know?
This same thing happened during the craft beer boom. I’m pretty involved in that industry – or at least I was at the time when there still folks with cash to do projects. Those that were able to make it big during the boom stayed healthy, and big. Those that didn’t quite make it there got crushed.
I think a similar thing is likely to happen here. The companies to make it through healthy will have the capital to take advantage when the wave comes back. It’ll be much smaller, but it will still be buying power. But those that are hurting won’t have the capital , and they’ll continue to hurt.
Sucks to see this. And it’s really hurting real people.
If you're one to listen to podcasts, look up the 4-part series by the Escape Collective (possibly mentioned already) about what happened with the bike industry over the last four years... it's super interesting and has some real-world examples of how things played out over the last four years. There were lots of questionable decisions made by all kinds of companies, suppliers, manufacturers, etc. and it seems like the ones that either made smart decisions, or who are big enough to survive bad decisions, will be the ones still standing when things finally recover.
Maybe one of the Walton heirs buys it as a passion project (like a better MTB replacement for Viathon)…
Seems like a bad time to be looking for a buyer for a floundering bike brand…
almost a year ago visiting a shop bro he told me things were gona happen and he sure wasn't wrong
who - everybody from major brands to distributors, yup
when - pretty much right away, yup
how long - since at least 2018
who will survive- the LBS with a strong shop
Uhh, yeah…this was obvious to basically everyone that looked at it with a critical eye. Peloton probably were the kings of losing in this regard.
A post from bikerumor!
Quote:
I’m posting anonymously due to potential repercussions, but as someone who works at Kona under Kent Outdoors, I feel compelled to share the distressing realities we face and urge you to take action.
Kent Outdoors is currently run by short-sighted individuals who are utterly disconnected from the communities, sports, and people attached to their brands. Their lack of understanding and interest in cycling and any other sport has not only led to poor decision making but also to a toxic corporate environment where Kona and their other brands are suffering greatly. Under their management, Kona has accumulated millions of dollars in unpaid debts to our suppliers (Fairly and Hodaka), with no attempts made to negotiate or even communicate, effectively planning to stiff them. This strategy isn’t limited to Kona; it’s a disturbing pattern that is evident across all brands under the Kent Outdoors umbrella. I urge all suppliers and partners across the board that do business with Kent Outdoors to be careful. Everyone should be seriously concerned about this pattern of non-payment and poor business ethics.
The working conditions here are more than just poor—they’re abysmal. Communication is practically non-existent now under the new management, creating a chaotic environment where decisions are made without transparency or employee input. The stress of potentially not getting paid has been a reality for some of us, adding to an overwhelming sense of job insecurity. Long hours, and weekend work, is the norm all without additional compensation or even basic recognition of our hard work.
The only individuals who seem to survive and even advance under the current regime are the “yes men” those who align too readily with a flawed agenda, lacking critical engagement or genuine passion for the brands. This has caused significant unrest among other brands under the Kent Outdoors umbrella, who are equally upset about these new leaders. Their inability to effectively manage people, combined with a lack of fundamental understanding of the communities they serve, is rapidly destroying the companies. These leaders are not just failing; they are actively dismantling the very essence of what made all of these brands successful.
The company is not just being led poorly; it’s being led by individuals who don’t seem to care about the damage they’re doing to the brands, communities, or people. Any company considering a partnership with Kent Outdoors should seriously reconsider. Any customer should consider carefully buying products from our companies since who knows if we will even have the parts to support them.
In light of these issues, I am calling on all community members to join us in boycotting all Kent Outdoors brands. We need to demonstrate that these destructive practices are unacceptable. By uniting and applying public pressure, we hope to initiate a significant change in Kent Outdoors’ direction and leadership to a model that values the employees, respects the community, and truly understands the sports industries they are part of.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and for any support you can lend. Let’s stand together to save Kona and the other brands we cherish.
I think I have said it on here before, but from first-hand experience during the boom and through 2022 as a purchaser and operations manager for a small bike brand, I saw some shit. I saw some of the mid-level companies do amazing things to help each other out. I saw the big bad companies do shockingly selfless acts as well as straight-up lie and make false promises. Overall, I think most industry teams did what they had to do, as shit was just crazy. My biggest takeaway was the shipping industry can go fuck itself. The shit they pulled without repercussion was insane. Major US ports seem to be run by criminals; at one point, I was given a phone number suggesting that if I wanted a container unloaded, I should call it and be ready to pay. The greed and overbuying by the big players (TREK, QBP, etc.) screwed over a lot of smaller brands. It's been well over two decades, but QBP was local to me growing up; I used to drive down to pick up orders. I now have my local shop order my parts from BTI or direct if possible.
It took all the fun out of the industry for me, ultimately leading me to walk away from 25 years of experience. I guess it was a good excuse to try something else.
Maybe it convinces one or two of you to do the same, maybe not, but the brands I try to spend money with after the experience: Industry Nine, MRP, SDG, and Stans. Of the big brands, FOX was honestly amazingly accommodating during the worst of it. There are deals to be had out there right now, but if you can afford it, throw a little money at the brands that align with your values. It matters. I know I can do better in this regard.
That shit has been going on for decades in other industries… I’ve called that “expediter” and paid that “fee” too many times to count. COVID just slowed down the logistics train so much it bled into recreational goods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
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Listened to this in the car today. Great podcastQuote:
Originally Posted by smmokan
We absolutely bribed our way through covid, used shady go-betweens and did everything we could to get product. It was wretched.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
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Welcome to private equity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
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Funny, I was going to say “Welcome to Corporate America”.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater
The complaint of inauthentic management who have no understanding of the community or customer combined with over leverage is distinctly PE. It's an epidemic.Quote:
Originally Posted by smmokan
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Hasn't that been the case since, like, forever? On The Waterfront was 1954.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
I know, I shouldn't have been surprised. It's just fucked up to experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
We love our Kona bikes and I’m considering a new one given sales. It would seem that buying one through a LBS would really help locally even if it doesn’t conform with a boycott of Kent Outdoors.
I'd suggest, if you do that, just to make sure you are clear WHY you are buying the Kona (love the brand, know it may go away, and want to suport the retailer), so as to ensure the store doesn't buy any more konas from Kent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruvian
But really good idea on supporting the local retailer in this way IMO
A buddy of mine worked at Nukeproof and turned down a few other attractive gigs to go over to Kona. Oof. He certainly knew what he was getting himself into, but still feeling for him and his family.
Ding ding dingQuote:
Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater
In BC Kona was always a big name brand like Rocky or Brodie, I always dug their HT's with a radicaly sloping top tube, i bought my 15yr old kid an HT and then rescued it from him before he could ride it off the garage roof and I still use it as my gravel/ touring bike
a couple of local buds cashed in on the BOGO offfer last fall which sounded pretty good,
I will be sorry to see Kona go
Same in the U.S. In the 00's through maybe 2014 or so, I'd bet they were the 4th biggest brand in the country (behind trek, specialized, and giant), at least in terms of quality mountain bikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Seemed like they floundered a bit as bikes started changing, and then private equity swooped in to seal the deal.
I heard rumor that Kona had just set up their tents at Sea Otter when they got the word to pack up and head home.
Totally agree with your timeline. When I really got into mountain biking in the mid 2000s, Kona was huge. Any mtb movie you watched you’d see those big stencil block letters on the side of the frame and knew exactly what you were looking at.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
Didn’t realize Jake and Dan sold to Kent in 2022 until looking it up recently. For some reason I thought they had sold much earlier. No offense but those guys really fucked the dog, Kona was on the fritz long before that sale went through.
Yep, also heard/read that somewhere. Just speaks to the discontinuity going on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsB
Looks like Planet Cyclery/Colorado Cyclist is closing up shop. Some good deals to be had on the carcass of the bubble, like this GX cassette that I just paid full freight for now at 104$
https://planetcyclery.com/components...10-52-12-speed
Can't find it in quick searches and don't want to start a rumor but I heard that Adam Miller was pushed out by investors at Revel. Confirm or deny?
Edit, found it: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/adam-...192665088-IM8o
^Paying Carbondale wages to a staff of 28 doesn't seem possible for a brand like Revel, maybe 27 is more doable.
Revel is a company I’m curious about.
Trendy, mostly consumer direct, quality is more B+ range so maybe a but cheaper to produce… but unsure of if they’ve hit a point where they’re profitable or still carving out at niche.
They did a “warehouse moving sale” a few months ago which made me wonder if they’re moving locally or further afield.
They are the type of company I want to stick around as they’re building bikes not just designed around winch and plummet PNW riding. We bought my wife a ranger on their Black Friday sale and it seems solid.
Sad to see Adam go. I’ve bumped into him a few times and he seems solid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
I listened to that 4 part Escape Collective podcast mentioned above. Great listen.
I was surprised at how unsophisticated the bike industry is. I understand these companies are not run by squads Wharton MBAs in their khakis and fleece vests… But it was eye opening for sure.
QBP forecasting their purchasing with email surveys…
Reps being paid commission when product hits shop floors, not customers hands…
I feel like half the drama could have been avoided if the shops, brands, distributors, manufacturers picked up the phone and talked to each other outside of “I need more stuff”. Do they not schedule weekly / monthly touch points?
Also - several of the interviewees said “It was crazy! We were so busy! We were working 50 hour weeks!” A little out of touch… how the fuck do they think people can afford to buy the shit they sell?
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I'll admit I have yet to listen to the podcast, but this discussion has me ready to. I apologize if this is redundant.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
I agree the bike industry could be more sophisticated, but trust me, we were calling and talking to people daily. You have to remember that everyone on the retail side of the phone was saying, if you get me a bike, I will sell it in days, no matter the cost.
My two cents on things that factored in:
1. Most companies in the industry have fewer people than you think working for them.
2. You often have an agent working in Asia. They can be a company employee, but they are just on contract for many.
3. You couldn't visit Taiwan or China for well over a year; the COVID restrictions were crazy. This meant you trusted people outside your company more than you should have.
4. Lead times went from 2-3 months to 9-12 months. Shipping times went from 1-2 months to 5-8 months. This meant your deposits went from 3-5 months to 12-15 months before you could earn any revenue from them, all while prices skyrocketed.
5. Often, 1-2 parts were unavailable, so you couldn't sell a $6,000 good because you didn't have something you paid for months ago. Often, this was a derailleur, cassette, or chain, but there were months in a row when a 20mm brake adapter didn't exist.
6. Much of the glut was caused by 5-6 large companies over purchasing. Many smaller companies increased purchases only at normal growth rates.
You had to have some faith in your partners' ability to deliver when they said they could. As you can imagine, things can spiral very quickly when you have 7-10 vendors you rely on per finished good, with most relying on Asian products during rolling COVID lockdowns.
I was working way more than 50 hours a week at times. It's a 14-hour difference to Taipei, so if I was skyping anyone, that was at 10-11pm...
I can see how a smaller brand who was able to increase shipments during the wave would be thinking, “we are taking business away from big brand _____ and we can sustain this” in developing their purchasing forecasts. Or, in Kona’s case, new buyers at the top of the wave who want to push numbers to see their return pay off, without understanding any of the underlying market dynamics (obvious assumption, I have zero insight).
Sad to see brands both big and small committing too much cash at the tail end of the wave without a good conversion cycle, and at worse margins. What a junkshow of an era.
I'm still gutted about GG. I guess no one wants to do carbon in America unless it's fancy handlebars.
It's Canada but We Are One is the player here... I've complained about this before but the fact that people write them off for hub spacing and overlook that they're producing sweet carbon products in Canada, for substantially cheaper than big brands in overseas, is annoying.
Mountain bikers are a fickle bunch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn
$4300 USD for the frame w/ shock is not cheap at all. GG was affordable.
GG had points where they would fire sale their bikes- which was a sign of financial duress - but agree even normal MSRP they were on the more affordable side of things. I remember their 'top tier builds' being in the mid $6000 range. Kona doing BOGO wasn't a sign of their value just like GG's sales last summer were not signs of value (looking at Spot's sale prices right now might give you a sense of their future).
We are One often does completes for around $7000... which with nice parts and carbon wheels is actually very very competitive compared to Yeti/SC/Specialized.
Currently they're $5600 for the 'rolling chassis'. Cobbling together drivetrain, brakes, dropper, saddle for $1000 is totally doable, so sub $7000 and you can have a really really nice bike.
Not 'affordable' and there are absolutely better deals out there... but it's North American made wheels, frame, bars and other nice parts... and they're still in business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frorider
I always thought the WAO “rolling chassis” was a symptom of the industry’s issues with part availability disguised as a “deal”.
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Or acknowledging that no one has Super Boost wheels to swap over.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
Dropped over to a local bike shop this afternoon after work. It was creepy quiet.
I have it from reliable sources that the vibe around Revel HQ today was positive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailwind
Kona had me wondering in the fall, one of their endurance team riders is from town. He at one point stopped tagging Kona in his socials then he and another team guy rode mountain bikes at a gravel race. Then he rode and won a 24 with a mid range hard tail as his back up bike A week later the new Kona team announcements came out and the Enduramce Team was not mentioned anywhere. He announced he had been dropped a few weeks later and now has a new gravel sponsor and no mountain bike sponsor. This is also not some also ran, he is athe current and now 5 time world 24 hour champion as well as holding a few FKT's and has been good at promoting the brand for the 15 years he has been with them. Sad way to end a relationship.
The bike industry has always been subject to oversupply from dilettantes playing at business. Add in a bunch of investors who somehow convinced themselves that the Covid sales bump would last, and you have a recipe for a major correction. Kona’s fate was set the moment it’s founders cashed out, now just a commodity that at this moment is worth a lot less than it was.