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Muscle strength isn't necessarily the same as muscular endurance from a plyometric point of view. Think about skiing a pow lap vs skiing fast turns on groomers. Both of them require explosive power vs 4/5 rounds of concentric/eccentric strength.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
Strength helps with recovery, but the primary function is the endurance.
I get that but doesn’t hiking, running uphill or quick bursts uphill on the mtb translate to muscular endurance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntmonkey
It does but not as much as you would think. None of those really focus on a full range of motion like LBs and other pylos do. That's not saying they don't help, but I wouldn't consider them a conditioning exercise for skiing.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
How to Train for Backcountry Skiing and Snowboarding (samsaraexperience.com)
This is kind of what I'm basing my thoughts on. Not necessarily saying that LBs are useless/counterproductive, but it seems like doing short coordinated explosive full range movements mixed with strength training instead of a high-capacity anaerobic movements at threshold is what is being recommended here.
Ultimately, it all helps. Just was some food for thought.
shit I'm behind the 8 ball, thanks for the reminders to get my ass in gear.. been a pretty active summer for me so hoping my legs are in relatively decent shape; I guess we'll see
Just add hookers and youll be in good shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosh
Never heard of a "quadzilla" before. Either it's a really tough quad workout or an ATV out of the UK.
Actually, quadzilla was a 500cc two stroke Suzuki back in the day. Almost killed myself on one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadman
https://www.webbikeworld.com/suzuki-...las-top-speed/
I'm no expert, but my understanding of LBs and their benefit is that they focus on eccentric movement strength/endurance. None of those activities you mentioned do that (hiking/trail running downhill does).Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
Doing single leg strength workouts and slowing the eccentric portion does focus on that piece of the equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
Im not shocked that someone with your username is downplaying what is essentially a (high rep pre-exhausted) plyometric exercise.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
- Running primarily builds muscle endurance.
- Plyos or jumping exercises build muscle explosion. Plyos train a standing vertical leap to around 20% better results than strength training. This is the second half of the Leg Blasters.
- Strength training builds pure strength. Endurance not so much.
The beauty of leg blasters is that they train all three. It's certainly a bit of endurance to go through a 5 set full leg blaster routine - and interestingly, somewhat similar in length to a full ski run. The first half is strength, with an extra focus on eccentric load. That builds pure strength. The second half is plyos, which is going to increase explosion - think springing: in and out of turns, absorbing jump landings, absorbing bumps, etc.
There's another benefit also, which is that the lunges and jump lunges build balance and leg quickness in a balanced situation, which is great for all the micro and macro adjustments you make while skiing, leg by leg.
Leg Blasters are so helpful cause they hit so many types of benefits that translate directly to your time on snow.
In theory if you did steep uphill and downhill hiking with a load and both hiked and bounded up and down you could get a real world version of the LB, I suppose.
I used to run some 200,300,400 meter sprints to help with conditioning for ski season. I also would run on a slight mellow gradient on a road near the school by my house. Not sure it did me any good, but I thought it was better than nothing. I have a bad hip and suffer from bursitis, so I tend to look for lower impact workouts. I am doing the LB's again, but dialed back the intensity. I do some dumbbell workouts. Lunges, front/back and squats/ roman squats just to build some strength.
Trying to figure out a core workout that doesn't cause my lower back to flair up. Sucks getting old. It hurts trying to slow down the aging process.
Not surprised that someone who is “california grown” defaults to insults when someone questions their preconceptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
I just think that LBs are likely third in terms of importance when it comes to prepping for ski season, especially if you have a touring focus. Aerobic capacity > Strength > Anaerobic Endurance. Not disagreeing that they’re beneficial in some capacity, heck I do them here and there, just wanted to see if there’s anyone out here that’s thought about their place along with all other forms of exercise.
My focus is on the bike. Either a 60 to 90 minute ride with 500 feet or so of steep climbing and some sprinting up the more gentle inclines or just loping around the neighborhood for 30-40 minutes with only 150 feet of a steeper climb. I keep this up virtually every day now. I have a deteriorating knee with a meniscus of about 20% of what it should be. Cycling really makes it feel better and skipping more than a couple of days make my knee feel loose in a bad way.
Leg blasters destroy me, I'm still working on minis (10x reps rather than 20x). I do this before riding and then stretch thereafter. I keep it easy since I'm concerned about blowing my knee.
I had been a gym rat 3+ years ago, but covid ended my tolerance of that mien. Plus, biking is more fun.
Knocked out two fulls and three minis with 30sec rest tonight as well as some other strength.
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But not in a way that is meaningful for training for skiing.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
Bolded for emphasis, because inbounds skiing is the focus here and that's the point that you seem to be missing. Sure, if you only tour then go buy Training for the New Alpinism or Training for the Uphill Athlete and knock yourself out. If you use those plans and then try to ski non-stop top-to-bottom tram laps you're gonna get rekt. Also, there's a periodization component here. There's a reason this thread was started in late October, LBs are basically meant to be final prep for ski season (or, if you sat on your ass all summer, the physical equivalent of cramming for a final you didn't study for all semester and you need a C to get the degree). Aerobic capacity and strength are long-term investments you work on in the off-season.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
Literally anything is a SHITLOAD better than nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadman
Alright alright…not trying to take awake from the LB stoke. Continue on!
1xmini, 2xfull, 1xmini today.
You didn't get the joke, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
Probably not.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
have you tried doing a lot of leg blasters? do 10 sets of minis, or 5 sets of full and see if your legs are sore a day or two laterQuote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
even my trail runner friends who log 60+ mile weeks get destroyed by the eccentric loading of them when they first start, which is a) why they hurt so bad and b) why they're such good training for skiing
Yes, I have. Like I said I’ve done LBs and still do them at times leading up to the season. I never said they don’t have a place, just saying they’re not an end all be all for ski fitness and aerobic capacity and strength seem to be more important, especially if you tour.Quote:
Originally Posted by ptavv
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
I had never heard of leg blasters before seeing this thread. I spend most of the year doing some kind of "uphill athlete" sort of training program for touring, but every year my first couple of weeks of downhill runs are not fun for my legs.
Last week I did two minis and could hardly walk for days. They definitelty work something different from my standard workouts/trail running... I think this will be a good addition and hopefully it pays off in the downhill endurance department.
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This is highly subjective, but the burn I got from LBs is very similar to top to bottom runs on skis. Top to bottom DH runs on the bike get me similar results, but cant do those at the gym/home.
Sounds like youre not having fun yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
How many of you folks are actually jumping as high as possible during the lunge jumps, and squat jumps vs. just getting your feet barely off the ground?
Hahahahahahahaha
(sigh)
It hurts cuz it’s true
Credit card airs ftwQuote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
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I've always done the lunge jumps just as high as needed to switch legs, kinda like tele skiing. Squat jumps I try to really jump (probably not as high as possible but more than a credit card).Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
If you arent exploding at max effort, then you are missing the plyo benefit. LBs are great because you get the plyo benefits for the first couple reps until you fatigue and then it naturally transforms into more of an endurance exercise. I would urge everyone to really try and prioritize the plyo aspect for the first few reps of the jumping movements, at least, before going back to pacing yourself to get through the rest of the set. Be warned that plyometric efforts are significantly more taxing to both your muscles and your lungs, so you may temporarily take a step back in your progression towards X sets of full LBs.
Dont jog your sprints... your sprints will naturally turn into jogging speed by the end of the sprint workout.
*caveat that you dont have underlying health/injury issues and are in decent training shape to begin with*
Yes...TtB tram laps, training you can do at home with no equipment, validating your effort, skiing with friends
No...rando dorks that can't ski, the idea that LBs ain't good for skiing, thinking that ski shape is something you start in October
Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse
This is good advice, and I was mostly speaking tongue in cheek about credit card airs. Mostly.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
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Again I just want to point out that even if you do go buy TFTUA their gym-based muscular endurance workout is 6x10 reps box steps, 6x10 reps front lunge, 6x10 reps split jump squats, 6x10 reps squat jump, 1 minute rest between sets. Not exactly a leg blaster but it has a lot in common in my view. Obviously that's worked in with all the aerobic work of their program.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
I think everyone has CC hops for the last few reps of the final few sets of lunge jumps and squat jumps haha. If you are still boosting a 30" vert on those you are lying, on EPO, or a combination of the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
Are leg blasters the new CrossFit? So many opinions and experts here.
Is there a video link to these LB motherfuckers so I can see what all hype is about and start torturing myself?
Google broken?Quote:
Originally Posted by AK47bp
Video here:Quote:
Originally Posted by AK47bp
https://sawback.com/blog/leg-blasters/
(Finally used the Google this year after seeing people talk about leg blasters for years…)
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
Lots of Google results but wasn’t sure what was the gold standard TGR approved method.
Yea. Google was broken but I think they fixed it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy
When I was still coaching wrestling and training more like a wrestler I could do leg blasters no problem, but during my first few skis days I'd be sore as hell.
More recently, when my main exercise has been trail running, leg blasters fuck me up, but my ski legs start out much stronger than they used to, even though my max strength is less for sure.
Why? I think part of it is that I have skied a lot more since I stopped the wrestling thing and I'm just more efficient than I used to be. But I also think running downhill is great preseason ski training. I mean moving quickly down steep rocky trails so your legs burn, not shuffling down a mild incline.
Last year I skipped the leg blasters ramp up and tried doing sets of split jumps immediately following weighted box steps. I did this because I suspected that most of the benefit of the LB is the split jump, while the rest of the movements are really there to provide fatigue. I also did hill sprints immediately followed by split jumps a couple times. I also have doubts about the benefits of any exercise that leaves you so sore it's hard to walk. After doing this for a month or so I was able to do the full 5 leg blasters without feeling too bad.
The start of this season will likely be rough/ delayed for me. Looks like I need surgery to remove bone spurs in my left foot. Hope I can get it done ASAP.