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Jonas dropping Sepp to sit on Roglic’s wheel = asshole
Did him dirty on his birthday. We always get to hear about how Jonas is riding for his kid, other teammate, etc. Throw a bone to a loyal homie on his birthday for fucks sake!
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I guess we gotta root for Pog at the Tour next year
I am disgusted with this whole thing. Jumbo are doing a terrible job of signaling any sort of intentions besides selfishness. The Roglic vs. Vingegaard battle playing out in real time on the road would be much more palatable if it wasn't at the expense of their main domestique. You have to wonder if riders like WvA and Kuss are happy sacrificing chances at major victories for Vingegaard after seeing this. I would think they care about more than just a fat check.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtTWjU1WpQA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCIElTSTDbw
as the nfl guys say: it's just business
I have to imagine either:
1) the DS likely gave Vingo & Primoz private commentary that he wasn't committed to Sepp as leader as long as TJV owned the podium; or
2) Vingo & Primoz are just that motivated to undermine their own teammate to get to the top step despite any team direction;
(I would find it hard to believe that team group directions on the bus included "you guys fight for it once we neutralize the others".)
kuss deserves better, but this is where we are
that video above shows how he understands that he is getting shafted by his own teammates, but he's still trying to be a teammate
primoz seemed to celebrate his own stage win without much interest in sharing the limelight or celebrating his teammates part in it
maybe he learns from this & bolts on them to take a stage win during a hard stage sometime when he understands they are having a hard time -- "oh, i didn't see him behind...i was just doing my own pace" :the_finge
So y’all think it was perfectly fine when
1. Lemond was ordered to wait for Hinault in 1985, and
2. Froome was ordered to wait for Wiggo in 2012
yesterday i could see the reason for having jonas go up the road. today was just a bummer. sure the fastest person should win. but sepp is close to riding his 60th day as a domestique in a grand tour supporting both primoz and jonas on their wins. its nuts. and theyre in a rare spot of getting to give him a grand tour win. just seems dickish and im rooting for sepp.
tomorrow will be interesting if jumbo is fine letting the break go or if they want the stage win
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Very different situations.
Those analogies would work if Sepp was attacking his teammates. Both Lemond and Froome were the up and coming riders on those teams.
Sepp was ordered to wait for Roglic on the Angliru last year and he did, and that was fine, that was his job.
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At the end of the day, the samenwinnen thing is bullshit. Management is clearly fumbling at handling personalities and competing interests. Seems pretty clear that Roglic and Vingegaard are not going to work well together anymore unless one of their chances are totally in the gutter. And attacking over Kuss for a GT double is completely short sighted considering he has been essential in all of their previous grand tour wins and presumably their plans for future wins as well. There was no good reason for Vingegaard to take more time today except in regards to his inter team competition with Roglic.
This GT sweep and podium sweep could be Jumbo’s Faustian bargain.
@joetron, the big difference is that with Lemond and Froome, domestiques attacked the established team leader and defending champion. Here, the established team leaders rode away from the domestique wearing La Rosa who couldn’t keep up.
There’s little doubt in my mind that Richard Plugge made it clear at the outset to both Roglic and Vingagaard- and the team - that whichever of those two had the legs would lead the team. Kuss in La Rosa doesn’t change anything, just adds a third element. Whoever has the legs will win.Quote:
Originally Posted by ::: :::
Tomorrow will tell. To paraphrase Rasheed Wallace “legs don’t lie”
remco, wtf happened on the down day? really...?
Classy ride by Jonas today
made me wonder if there was backlash in the team
Fuck yes there was backlash. Jumbo had the feel-good story of the year and they fucked it. Primoz and Jonas riding as super-doms for their hardest worker on the team would have been sick optics. But no, fucking clown-shoes is what we got. If I’m INEOS I’m going all in on Sepp during the offseason. Build a team around him and fuck Jumbo next July
im confused, did they fck it? they didnt take any time and jonas sat back to give him more of a buffer.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
i liked to see it. weirdly tho i saw Gs interview where he said "its a bloody grand tour. you dont give a grand tour to a dom because theyve worked for you for a few years." i got convinced hearing him say it tbh.he did also say he thinks sepp deserves to be in red but i kinda didnt believe him.
Too little too late. They totally fucked it
it seems they made an effort to correct with today's ride
better late than never
purportedly they will support kuss thru the finale now, or at least not jam a pump in his spokes on camera
rough way to run in to the sprint leadout -- not often you see the touch of wheels right at the pointy end, usually a couple wheels back
i got lucky with a non-groves selection
kuss survived -- a hilly effort tomorrow & flat circuit sunday...so cool for him!
[ETA]i could have sworn i had 50 pts left for a rider swap in the final few stages, but it seemed i was at zero when i checked in on my riders a couple days ago
TBS looks solid (and without the red jersey/no further swaps!)
i'm trailing benneke by 50ish pts
this has been a good tour
Yup that’s what happens when you look over your shoulder in crowded situations…:eek:
Teammate of mine many years ago did that and ended up with his clavicle sticking out of his chest
The EF guy on the front wasn’t too happy and he didn’t even go down
I’m gonna sit pat for tomorrow then swap out my climbers for sprinters on Sunday. Guessing RE goes on another tear tomorrow- can’t imagine TJV allowing anyone in top ten to go with him. UAE may take a run at TJV to get Ayuso on the podium but I don’t think they have the legs to execute
tomorrow looks like it could be crazy on paper, but is it?
there's 3pts for cresting a cat3 peak -- (10) cat3 peaks tomorrow + 20pts for an intermediate sprint & a bonus seconds
Remco seems to have the mountain jersey without having to go long tomorrow. Only 30 mountain pts available (his buffer is almost 80)
Groves has the sprint jersey points locked too (his buffer is 50+)
Ayuso has the young rider jersey by about 3.5mins...seems manageable?
Kuss has 4mins to the next team's nearest rival (the intrasquad fighting seems to have settled down)...seems manageable?
Do anyone feel the need to go crazy tomorrow?
TJV needs to control so an unfortunate breakaway can't form, but beyond that, not really much to control...maybe some motivated characters have a reason to challenge the peloton to earn a day's notoriety & a most aggressive status?
I suppose Remco could go nuts just to push buttons & demonstrate his woulda/coulda/shoulda
what do you guys think?
I fully expect RE to go, regardless of points. There’s a most combative award for the overall race, no? He definitely deserves that, both for performance since stage 13, and for busting the organizers balls during the first three days :)
And there’s the “fuck you I’m still pretty fucking good” aspect…
The question is whether anybody wants to go with him. He only has one speed and mere mortals get spit off the back sooner or later. Will see who finds the suffering worth the TV time.
If RE decides to sit back, the break will be full of non-threats to TJV.
Ayeso, Mas and Landa are within 30 sec of each other so one may try a late move. But Kuss, Vingagaard and Roglic will just go along for the ride and crush them all at the end.
I have no fucking idea who to pick for stage winner tomorrow- in hindsight dumping RE wasn’t a good decision
What a cool thing for Sepp
Jonas & Primoz look to have embraced their team positions for this race earnestly — might have redeemed them a bit. Vingo looked over at Sepp at 1k to go & offered congratulations
Remco was straight outfoxed by Poels on that rise to the finish
But he should get the overall race’s most aggressive anyway
(And sleeper selection Pelio Sanchez getting me points as part of the break was a nice bonus)
Never expected that many riders would go on the break - I think every team was represented. Thought Soler and Poels would stay back to protect Ayuso and Landa, but when Kelderman joined up as well I figured they all had some alley-oop strategy in mind. Maybe they did, but that doesn’t work with a 10 min advantage
Tomorrow will be a drag race at the end. Final km is straight.
Will Evenepoel contest even though he said he wasn’t interested in the green jersey? Eddie Merckx would…
FKNA Sepp.
Now we get to wonder what’s gonna happen with TJV next season.
Kuss’ contract will be up and end of 2024. Does he want to be a GC guy? Sounds like his wife doesn’t, and I don’t think he’s anywhere near the same league as Vingagaard, Roglic, Pogacar, or Evenepoel. Maybe he stays as mountain domestique for the grand tours and they have him lead some shorter stage races like Tour de Suisse
Roglic contract is up at end of 2025. He’s not too happy about missing out on a record four Vuelta wins. He has zero chance of winning the tour on TJV so long as Vingo is healthy. Does he attempt a buyout in the off-season to join, say Ineos? And that’s complicated by a possible merger between Quickstep and Ineos…
Oh yeah, and Matteo Jorgensen joins TJV in 2024
Congrats, TBS, you lead from bell to bell!
Heh - first time I’ve won in 10 years and there’s no money on the line.
The extra 20 purchase credits made it a lot easier to field a super team. Soler and Poels were quite productive for me. Amazing considering their efforts in le tour.
Bit of a drama with the jumbo/soudal merger & now rumors of an amazon sponsor deal. Seemingly inevitable Roglic move now linked to ineos, Movistar & lidl/trek, etc
I'm here for it. Well the Roglic leaving, not Quickstep/TJV merging. I don't want cycling to be a two horse race between UAE and TJV and the merger is dangerously threatening that. Hopefully next year is more competitive with Lidl Trek having Tao, EF with Richie Carapaz, Movistar and Mas somehow getting better, Bora and Hindley being healthy, and Ineos with Roglic and a mountain train. As it is, TJV/Quickstep and UAE could probably field A&B teams that would compete with every other team right now for GC.
What happens to Evenepoel if the merger happens then? Can't see him being happy with being just their Giro and Vuelta guy or schlepping bottles for Vingegaard in the Tour. Or sharing the Classics with Wout for that matter.
I mean, he becomes the Roglic role for TJV-Amazon in the grand tours. Number one option for any GC that Jonas isn't at, the undisputed leader for the hilly classics, and a potential weapon for a long range attack in the cobbles a la Dylan van Baarle. If TJV doesn't win basically every classic next year if the merge happens, its a failure.
that's a lot of talent ego to manage on one team -- that DS is going to be pulling his hair out
(for those who like fancy custom bike stuff, speedwagen/vanilla is having a sale of all things...hard to believe, but there you go... https://www.instagram.com/p/CxmKzHxp5lW/ )
Or just yelling F*** at everything that doesn't go their way. Was a real highlight for me in the Netflix series.
Supposedly Evenepoel is going Ineos. Roglic to Bora?
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UCI Gravel Worlds! Riders reporting that this year’s course is way better than last year. More climbing, more rough gravel.
Sounds like most of the USA Men’s team will be working for Keegan, which is fucking rad. Should be a fun one.
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2024 UCI Cyclocross Worlds just a day away. Classic Tabor Course. Missing a couple of big names so more open than in the past.
Live feed starting in 16 hours for the relay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF_1rj-R45w
Will be quite the party.