Printable View
Mach 1 is a touch lower instep. Neither were tight on me so hard to say exactly. Mach 1 has a thick tongue which adds to peoples problem. Hawx ultra has a much smaller cuff diameter which holds the bottom of the tibia tighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
Good info thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
So like 24/25?! :please:Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
Quite possible. I did have a pretty significant impact on buried avy debris in a landing at about 30-40 days in, where I landed it but snapped a ski in half and sprained my ankle, which could have compromised it some. Could have also rattled loose some inbounds before I went out the gate on the day it blew. I'll give em another go, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
How does the flex of a Redster CS 110 compare to the Hawx Ultra S 130?
How many memory fit can we do without altering the plastic? Is it possible to do an "empty" memoryfit to reobtain the initial form of the boots?
-20Quote:
Originally Posted by Cork7 Belly Flop
Sent from my SM-A536W using Tapatalk
Will the new Professional Liners, specifically Hawx XTD Professional be available to dealers by spring? Or will they not arrive to shops until their fall orders arrive?
The reason I ask is that I like to get new boots foamed in the spring when my feet are in "ski shape" and I can ski them with direct A-B comparison to my previous boots.
I find it hard to get new foam liners in the fall and try to understand if they are correct while getting back into ski (feet) shape.
Just in case others don't regularly listen, here's @onenerdykid getting nerdy with Jonathan Ellsworth on the Gear:30 podcast regarding the new Atomic boots, boa upgrades, and related topics:
https://pca.st/episode/f9eafb0b-d9d2...6-c92ff0f03bf0
Bummer. The feature set on the new Backland XTD (as you laid out on the Blister podcast) sounds absolutely perfect, but for a fit that just isn’t owing to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
You obviously know the market (and I don’t), it just seems weird that given there are at least a dozen brands now competing to sell medium volume ski touring boots, one brand could presumably specialize in and corner the market for low volume boots.
Perhaps it’s also an issue with the perverse incentives of the distribution system, where a large number of small retailers (brand’s actual customers) each can’t justify carrying a full size range of more risky inventory, rather than the total number of potential buyers. I appreciate that few if any shops are doing enough volume in this space to cater to those who would appreciate a Backland XTD with a Redster Club Sport last, but perhaps a hybrid direct sales model like what is starting to happen in the bike industry? One can dream.
I spent a few years in the Mach 1, LV 130 then moved to the Hawx 130 ultra last year. The Hawx ultra is a roomier fit than the mach 1 LV, especially in the forefoot. I needed extensive stretching in the forefoot of the mach 1, and zero work done in the forefoot of the Hawx ultra.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
The mach1 LV has a lower instep and the boot feels heavier and more damp than the Hawx. The Hawx is lighter, more responsive and has more energy. It also a slightly higher tongue that sits higher on the shin.
The Hawx liner, especially the mimic pro is a significant performance upgrade from the stock tecnica liner, but the Hawx is hands down the coldest boot I’ve ever been in. The combination of that liner and the plastic makes them very cold even at 25 degrees F.
Bottom line, I like the way the Hawx fit and ski better, but I miss having warm feet.
Looks like there is a new Redster boot on the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cn1nxvYM...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Can you share any details please Matt? Will there be a Club Sport version?
Can anyone (ONK?) briefly summarize the timeline of changes to the ultra s 130 (non xtd) pls.
Was it 21/22 they got updates?
21 boot seems available cheap. Considering trying it since my ultra XTD fits better than my Lange RX.
Much appreciated!Quote:
Originally Posted by tenB
I wonder how a powerwrap would go in the HAWX with the smaller cuff diameter.
CS 110 will feel softer in terms of forward flex, but have a more stable lower shell and a damper feel overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cork7 Belly Flop
Kinda hard to put a number to, since it isn't a scenario that you encounter in real boot fitting. The most I've ever seen someone do is 4 times but whether it's 5 or 6 shouldn't matter either in terms of plastic degradation. At that point, you should be more worried about the liner being packed out from too much oven time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Poudreuse
All plastics have a "memory" to them and they want to go back to their injected shape. If a boot has gone through the Memory Fit process (or even a stretch that is too big), you can put it back in the oven and it will return to almost its injected shape. Not perfectly, but darn close.
You might find a couple floating around (retailers & fitters often get test pairs), but nothing in real quantities until fall 2023. Serial production on these doesn't start until May-ish and then they are on a container for a while, hence fall delivery dates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs
That's just an existing Redster - the launch that H&N attended was for a new goggle that we are launching at the time of the Schladming Night Slalom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean
regular Hawx Ultra was updated with a new mold construction for 21/22, and were carried over (meaning no changes) into 22/23.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
New liner tech coming for 23/24 (same main updates that Hawx Ultra XTD got, minus the Achilles flex zone)
Should we pre order through dealer or not necessary? Would like to try a pair of the CS professional liners.Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I'd say pre-order. And that goes for almost anything boot-related for next year. We're running at full capacity and boots are (again) basically made-to-order next year. There won't be random stock floating around, so make sure you are able to secure what you want to have.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennettc14
This may already be answered somewhere in the previous 4 pages, but how punchable will the forefoot/toe area of this boot be for width? I typically need more width there and I know some touring boots have a hard time holding the punch. Also, any word on the warmth of this boot? Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
Is demand just up that much?Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
Does that go the the normal (non professional) xtd liners too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
Memory Fit, not a ton. Traditional stretching, very successful. The Backland XTD Carbon 120 is a carbon-loaded shell, but the carbon percentage is not as high as the Backland Carbon model. This means it will resist low-pressure fit systems like Memory Fit (more than normal PA) but still be fine for high-pressure fit systems like presses and the like.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Warmth is quite subjective, but it's got a lot of high density foam in the liner which traps heat well.
Yes, which has its ups & downs. Great that the interest is there, but it's proving to be quite tricky to keep up with it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
Less so there (as they tend to get over shadowed by the Professional versions) but they still adhere to the same reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by carlh
Ah, I'm not that familiar with punching vs stretching, I think I use punch as a catch all term to mean change the shape. So you are saying that these should work well to make them wider in the toe box?Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
With traditional ways of boot fitting (punching/stretching) it means using a mechanical or hydraulic tool to widen the shell. These methods generate more force and will expand the shell further than Memory Fit, which relies on the foot's own pressure to expand the shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Awesome, thanks. I’ll add these to the shortlist for new boots.Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
I'm about halfway through; another great listen for the gear nerds. Thanks Matt for doing these!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ørion
Curious what these/some of these would be?Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
Matt, always like the podcasts and appreciate the help and input you provide here. With the changes coming next year to the XTD, it seems it's getting closer and closer to the ultra S, especially with the gnar bar option. What would make someone chose the Ultra S over the XTD?
Some people just don't need the features that come on the Hawx Ultra XTD and they're better off with less complication & can save a solid chunk of money with the regular Ultra. For others, aesthetics matter- they just like how fixed cuff boots look.Quote:
Originally Posted by oetk2
That would be me. Less shit to break. Less shit to wobble. I’ve had poor experiences with extra features I rarely use or can get by without, and while that might not be fair to the current crop I much prefer simple for resort skiing. I wish I could still buy a two buckle ghost….Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
Great thread, thanks ONK. Some questions:
1. I'm a little out of the loop on the Atomic naming convention. For next season, are the Hawx Ultra XTD 130 and Hawx Prime XTD 130 the same boot but different fits? Like basically Ultra = LV and Prime = MV?
2. I love the progressive flex of an overlap boot (vs the linear flex of a cabrio) and I like how well PU skis so the new PU XTD offerings seem great. But I've taken to cabrio boots for touring because of they walk so well. Any thoughts on how well the Ultra/Prime XTD (PU) walks compared to the Lupo HD (without the tongue)? I don't care much about stated ROM, but I care a lot about usable frictionless ROM.
3. What's the size run on the Backland XTD 120?
The new 100mm last on the Backland XTD is much more "wide foot-friendly" than any of the previous Backlands; I was able to wear one out of the box for ~4 hours a few nights ago (under Matt's direction) and my right forefoot is around 119mm. It wasn't a cold night but the liner feels much more substantial than other boots in the 1300g range, so hopefully a bit warmer as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Totally, especially if people already have a dedicated touring boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustonen
1. Ultra = 98mm/LV, Prime = 100mm/MV, Magna = 102mm/HV - all are based on the same foot shape, just scaled up and down to make sense for their volume category.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
2. Overlap boots will always suffer a bit here in comparison to open throat boots. The overlaps will provide a better wrapping fit and more progressive flex, but less free-floating cuff ROM; the open throat boots will offer easier step in/out and allow for more forward ROM while touring, but less foot wrapping and less progressive flex characteristics. That's just the inherent compromises/choices we have to make.
3. men's models are 24/24.5 - 30/30.5, women's models are 22/22.5 - 27/27.5. All shells are unique, true shells (no big shell, small liner stuff going on).
Bold idea, but hear me out… rebrand to Hawx (XTD) LV/MV/HV to make it easier on consumers, and then beat your French Amer cousins over the head until they drop whatever the current iteration of S/max/alpha/pro/supra/access in favor of S/Pro LV/MV/HV as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
Just spitballing here.
Actual question: can we expect BOA to migrate into Prime and non XTD boots as well over the next two to four seasons?
New boots look sick though. Backland XTD seems like a real winner for many consumers to me so far.
But next year's Hawx Ultra XTD and Hawx Prime XTD are identical other than volume? So I could get a very good sense of the stiffness and walkability by trying on this year's Prime XTD 130?Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
Sure, of course. I'll guess I'll have to wait until my friends get the PU XTD or try them on myself.Quote:
2. Overlap boots will always suffer a bit here in comparison to open throat boots. The overlaps will provide a better wrapping fit and more progressive flex, but less free-floating cuff ROM; the open throat boots will offer easier step in/out and allow for more forward ROM while touring, but less foot wrapping and less progressive flex characteristics. That's just the inherent compromises/choices we have to make.
I have always loved that you guys don't do toe dams, etc. So the women's top version will be a 115 flex? Is it as stiff as the Hawx XTD 115? My wife has both the old Backland (with a men's tongue) and the old Hawx XTD 115, and definitely would love something that walks closer to the Backland but skis closer to the Hawx XTD 115. She's very excited about the new Backland XTD Carbon 115 W. I know you were saying the lower has less carbon than other carbon-infused plastics, so it punches decently. Is it also possible to stretch the calf area of the Backland XTD Carbon 115 W? My wife has stretched this area on all her previous Atomic touring boots.Quote:
3. men's models are 24/24.5 - 30/30.5, women's models are 22/22.5 - 27/27.5. All shells are unique, true shells (no big shell, small liner stuff going on).
Glad you are liking things so far, let me know when you are able to try them on and/or demo them.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
Re: last naming - this was definitely a topic at the beginning, but we ended up deciding on names vs. volumes. I certainly can't vouch for how the Frenchies are handling it, that's beyond confusing.