I'm not really following, the knut template is incorrect and it's pretty clearly so with calipers. I believe this has been discussed elsewhere on this website.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
Just trying to offer some help...
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I'm not really following, the knut template is incorrect and it's pretty clearly so with calipers. I believe this has been discussed elsewhere on this website.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
Just trying to offer some help...
Thanks for that, but since I received no STH2 discrepancy feed back previously in this thread and from those who have received this tool, you asking for confirmation struck me as a new 'revelation' and not something previously discussed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoaster
With the poor search capabilities of this site, and the shear volume of posts, it's impossible to quickly zero in on discrepancies or find the corrections....if there are any...or not...on all of the bindings and their variations and nuances without guidance (and people to follow up). There is too much to weed through. Thus the general frustration rant (not specifically directed at you) after spending a ton of time on this project already and not seeing a clear path moving forward.
So..how can we all find confirmed templates quickly for each binding? One simple way is for those finding discrepancies is to print out the template, place your bindings over the template, check the hole alignments, measure & REDLINE the discrepancies, take a picture and post it along with handle and links to any background info. Otherwise, I'm starting to think the only way I can feel confident is to obtain each binding, measure them, test mount, and reinvent the wheel....
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...6&d=1670247885
I just stumbled onto this thread and these templates are such a rad idea!! I love it. I'm in for a Pivot template.
I only read the first page... I know the vaunted Salomon STH (no the 2) is out of production. Any chance those get a 3DP template? If so, I'm in for one as I've hoarded several sets of those that I intend to use.
since you brought it ^^ up yeah so mounting a binding on a piece of wood is really just good layout, reading these tech talk posts I long ago realized that a lot of the people mounting their own fucking skis don't have the background, really don't understand what they are doingQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
Get me a template you trust, order 'custom' via the store and I'll get 'er done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig
Exactly. That's why I suggested that some might need to spend the time to practice and bump up their skills. Like anything if you are not in a regular mode, you need to allow yourself some time, effort and focus to get up to speed before taking the risk of drilling your skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
yeah practice on the 2x4 maybe they don't know shit about tanks/ airplanes/ mounting skisQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
but maybe they know stuff about women or money that has entirely gone whoosh over my techy head ?
Will do. I've been using an early Binding Freedom template from when those first hit the site here. I'll shoot you a PM so we can get the email going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
I appreciate it!
I get what you're saying...if the template is off to start with, the adjustments have to be bigger. My first Vipec installation (on a 2X4) did not go well and made getting the heel plate on straight pretty tough. Yes, the discrepancy was only 0.5mm but then if your drill bit wanders another 0.5mm, now you're off by 1mm. Center punching certainly helps with that and your rad guides make center punching child's play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
As you know, I did exactly as you suggested...I put the Vipec heel plate over the OnTheSnow template and it was clearly off by 0.5mm. I get that it's frustrating and I think gregorys is going through similar machinations.
If we didn't constantly machinate over minutiae, this forum wouldn't exist :D
http://www.slidewright.com/Bindings/Binding_Layout_Tool/STH2/STH_adjusted.png[/IMG]
Want to confirm, before I hit print:Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoaster
Attachment 439268
EDIT:
See STH template above where the toe dimension mirror these suggested adjustments. I am trying to get additional confirmation from a couple customers who have the STH2 Binding Layout tool.
FYI, I asked Terry to create an Alpinist tool. Here is the template I've been using for the past year or two. I can't remember where I got it from; if it was someone here, thanks. Attachment 439272
http://www.slidewright.com/Bindings/Binding_Layout_Tool/Marker/Marker_alpinist_layout.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I confirmed those measurements on my printout. Thanks.
https://www.slidewright.com/Bindings...ayout_tool.png
My robots ought to have them done in an hour:
https://tgr.scdn2.secure.raxcdn.com/...IMG_1025D.jpeg
https://tgr.scdn2.secure.raxcdn.com/...IMG_1024D.jpeg
Very cool. Appreciate all the work you're putting in.
The devil is in the details. So is the drama, controversy and therefore interest.:skijump:Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsAugustWest
Happy Holidays everyone!
Regarding the STH2 discrepancies, here is snippets from back and forth from one individual who received the STH2 Binding Layout tool based on Knut's template and was very gracious:
"I have used the same STH2 paper template for several pairs of skis over the past 5 years or so. I have already mounted my skis for this season but I thought I would go ahead and get your printed template."
".....I successfully used that paper template at least 8 times."
Attachment 439453
"and I just measured the actual binding. this template is correct"
"Your tool is right. It matches my paper template nearly perfectly"
Where does that leave us? Anyone else have any insights. It is interesting that the STH dimension are similar to what westcoaster measured on the STH2:
"Just a heads up, I'm fairly certain the sth2 front holes are 42.5 mm wide, and the toe piece front to rear hole spacing is 31mm. "
http://www.slidewright.com/Bindings/Binding_Layout_Tool/STH2/STH_adjusted.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Valid question. Truthfully, I don’t know that I’ve noticed a difference. I’ve mounted at least a half dozen bindings with the template I sent you and it seemed to get it done. Mind you, these were free-hand mounts, so if there was any discrepancy, it was minimal and not enough for me to notice on the bench.
I will say that for each print of the template,
I checked the scale with my trusty engineering ruler from my mechanical engineering days in college and it all came out acceptable.
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoaster
“I may not be fast, but I sure am slow.” Google helped me find a https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/314779-STH-gt-STH2-conflict confirming the STH & STH2 toe holes as the same. I’ll print an STH/STH2 toe layout tool from the BindingFreedom template & westcoaster dimensions.
For the heels, I’m still looking to confirm there are only 4 holes, correct? What are the extra holes for on the Binding Freedom Salomon template?
Attachment 439769
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For the STH, there are five holes. The fifth being for another anchor, right near where the ski brake screws into the baseplate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig
OK.Here's the revised heel. What's the hole north of the toe needed for?
Attachment 439800
There are five holes on the toe of the STH/Warden 13 jig, but the front and center one isn't for STH/STH2, it is for the old Z Series bindings which only took 3 screws. The heels for all the bindings only take 4 screws and the pattern is the same for all of them. FWIW, this jig also works for the Strive 16.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig
The most precise way to measure hole spacing is to measure "inside to inside", then measure the diameter of one hole and add that number to your first measurement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoaster
... Thom
Is that not what i did?Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the STH (not the 2) has only four holes in the toe piece. It has five in the heel piece with the fifth hole for anchoring the brake assembly.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregL
You are right, four holes in the toe and an extra hole for the brake. The center front toe hole is for the Z bindings; I think this is the one Alpinord was asking about. The STH2 also has four holes for the toe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig
Measuring hole centers accurately can be challenging. Your comment and westcoaster's image of adding the inside to inside and then the hole diameter gave me an idea on generating some kind of 'self-centering' caliper attachment. Much like self-centering drilling for door hinges, etc:Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Attachment 440002
I usually just measure same side to same side of holes.
Edit: Conceptually, like this:
Attachment 440006
https://www.slidewright.com/Bindings...e_to_side.jpeg
For those who live
Forgot to follow up on the centering caliper concept:
Attachment 444443
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I don’t know I it’s still manufactured, but in the last 10 years Head made one model up to size MP 34. The BSL was 384mm and I could put my foot in it while it was still buckled.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregL
https://www.slidewright.com/Bindings...0templates.png
https://tgr.scdn2.secure.raxcdn.com/...layout_iso.png
https://tgr.scdn2.secure.raxcdn.com/...yout_tool.jpeg
Edit: An additional discrepancy occurs when overlaying JonDrums/Binding Freedom Template:
https://tgr.scdn2.secure.raxcdn.com/...plates_toe.png
https://tgr.scdn2.secure.raxcdn.com/...ates_heel2.png
https://www.slidewright.com/Bindings...rden_demos.png
FWIW, here is the Warden 13 Demo page from the 2020-21 tech manual
The heel line on Knut's template is off. I made a template for it for my jig and I thought the heel line should be 12mm back from the front holes to end up centered in the adjustment range.
That moves your discrepancy to the other side on Gregory's 11demo layout, but should be pretty close...16mm forward would move the center 8mm forward or 1-2mm on the other side of the CL?
Yeah I do remember the scale thing now that you mention it, because I didn't think i moved it super far. So i was moving from his 16mm to 12mm, not 12mm on the other side of the holes where your line is drawn.
Still will be a small discrepancy.
Ok, disregard what I said earlier. Knut's template is wrong but my notes didn't match my CAD, so not sure what was going on there...maybe I was just confused
I have a pair of warden 11 (not demo) mounted that I just measured:
Total adjustment is 44mm in 4mm increments. Nominal heel line to put you in the middle of that range is 24mm back from the front heel holes (adjusted for whatever forward pressure, so might vary a bit).
Hope that helps.
It seems there are enough people using ATK raiders around here that one of these layout tools would be worthwhile... hint I want one....
There are a couple of variations of the toe screw pattern, but I think they share 2 of the 4 holes, with the first one being the most common.
https://www.atkbindings.com/wp-conte...etour-2020.pdf
https://www.atkbindings.com/wp-conte...etour-2020.pdf
Ok, thanks. I’ll try to circle back to this within the next few days. Go ahead and make a custom order.
https://www.slidewright.com/slidewri...yout-tools.php
(The URLs you posted need to be edited. Omit the stuff before ‘https’.)
On first glance, I’m not clear yet on the lines shown relative to BSLs or BSCs. Do you have other template links? I can generate one if needed and with some insights here.
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