New Strive - paging ONK

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

For science:

P15: 17/19mm
STH2 13: 17/25mm
Strive 16: 20/25mm

So, conclusively, there is less delta on the Strive than the Pivot.

I’d love to ski the same skis back to back with these bindings. I’d bet that I can feel the difference between the STH2 and the Pivot. Outside that, I’m sure they feel different in terms of dampening, too.

Edit: those are my measurements just now with calipers in the garage.

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Huh?! You mean more.

Here's the way I break the differences down. If you carve, STH2 ; stand over the boards, pivots. Same skier can use each in different situations.

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Originally Posted by iriponsnow

Huh?! You mean more.

Here's the way I break the differences down. If you carve, STH2 ; stand over the boards, pivots. Same skier can use each in different situations.

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Sorry.... meant to say STH2, not Pivot. Edited to correct.

Also, what if you do both?? Again, I'd love to ski them back to back on the same skis. I'm curious how much difference you'd feel.

I also just noticed that the Strive 14 doesn't have the adjustable height toe. Basically the 14 and the 16 are totally different bindings. Hmmm.

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

Sorry.... meant to say STH2, not Pivot. Edited to correct.

Also, what if you do both?? Again, I'd love to ski them back to back on the same skis. I'm curious how much difference you'd feel.

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If you do both, ride a jester pro instead and get the best of both worlds.

This is confusing - I always referenced this site (below) which lists the pivots at a 5mm delta!

https://www.thepisteoffice.com/index...g-delta-angles

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

I also just noticed that the Strive 14 doesn't have the adjustable height toe. Basically the 14 and the 16 are totally different bindings. Hmmm.

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Wanna know something even more mind boggling?

In the 2024 Salomon catalog there is a Strive 14 MN and a Strive 14 GW. The MN has the adjustable toe height like the Strive 16 and the 14 GW does not.

[emoji854][emoji854][emoji854]

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Originally Posted by Bandit Man

Wanna know something even more mind boggling?

In the 2024 Salomon catalog there is a Strive 14 MN and a Strive 14 GW. The MN has the adjustable toe height like the Strive 16 and the 14 GW does not.

[emoji854][emoji854][emoji854]

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Oh geez….

I am now throughly confused bc Sali came out w this binder bc it was to have a self adjusting toe as to avert / simplify the need to adjust.

Odd how ONK (and most other sites / influencers) have gone dark on this.

STH2 it is then

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Originally Posted by iriponsnow

I am now throughly confused bc Sali came out w this binder bc it was to have a self adjusting toe as to avert / simplify the need to adjust.

Odd how ONK (and most other sites / influencers) have gone dark on this.

STH2 it is then

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They did away with the wing adjustment, so there's that. :D

Binding tech is pretty lame. I'm not sure if I love or hate Look for unapologetically making the same binding for the last 30 years. The protector and Knee bindings are, at least, trying to innovate.

Double post

The folks at pugski/skitalk post some handy binding charts every year.

https://www.skitalk.com/threads/2024...indings.31208/

https://www.skitalk.com/threads/2022...indings.24336/

https://www.skitalk.com/threads/2024...indings.31211/

2022
STH13 19/24.5
STH16 21/24.5

2024
Strive 14 21/24.5
Strive 16 21/24.5
STH2 16 21/24.5

I haven't been on Strives yet but I'm guessing the biggest on snow difference in feel will be the weight. The STH13/Strive 14 difference is 480 grams, that's 0.5 pounds on each foot.

And where is Blister with the big binding shootout they were supposedly having last spring?

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

For science:

P15: 17/19mm
STH2 13: 17/25mm
Strive 16: 20/25mm

So, conclusively, there is less delta on the Strive than the STH2.

I’d love to ski the same skis back to back with these bindings. I’d bet that I can feel the difference between the STH2 and the Pivot. Outside that, I’m sure they feel different in terms of dampening, too.

Edit: those are my measurements just now with calipers in the garage AND edited my mistake.

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I get 20/25 for STH2 16 WTR, don't have a Strive at home to measure but they seem to feel the same underfoot.

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Originally Posted by Stikki

The folks at pugski/skitalk post some handy binding charts every year.

https://www.skitalk.com/threads/2024...indings.31211/

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This puts the Pivot 18 at 16.5/19. Not sure which AFD that is for.

So 2.5mm for Pivots, 3.5mm for strives and STHs.

My goal this season is to get all my bindings to similar delta.

Also, is it just me, or does the Strive 11, 14, and 16 ALL HAVE DIFFERENT STYLE OF BRAKES?!?

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Originally Posted by Stikki

The folks at pugski/skitalk post some handy binding charts every year.

https://www.skitalk.com/threads/2024...indings.31208/

https://www.skitalk.com/threads/2022...indings.24336/

https://www.skitalk.com/threads/2024...indings.31211/

2022
STH13 19/24.5
STH16 21/24.5

2024
Strive 14 21/24.5
Strive 16 21/24.5
STH2 16 21/24.5

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Just because it's on the Internet doesn't make it true - walking around with a ruler in my basement and at the shop, I get 17/25 for the STH2 13 WTR, 20/25 for the Warden 13 MNC, 20/25 for the STH2 16 WTR, 20/25 for the Strive 16, and 17/19 for the Pivot 15 (actually a hair under 17 at the AFD, but closer to 17 than 16.5). Salomon rep confirmed last night that this may be the last year for the STH2, I suggested again they go out in a blaze of glory by making an STH2 Steel with an 18 DIN . . .

I just bought up NOS STH216s & 13s - dammit, I didn’t want to be that guy, yet here we are.

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Originally Posted by iriponsnow

I just bought up NOS STH216s & 13s - dammit, I didn’t want to be that guy, yet here we are.

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Me too, two pairs of each NIB . . .

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Originally Posted by tupp_

This is confusing - I always referenced this site (below) which lists the pivots at a 5mm delta!

https://www.thepisteoffice.com/index...g-delta-angles

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I have a lot of respect for Jon, but the chart is wrong. This is a case of people relying on online information or data they got second or third hand without actually looking at the bindings with a boot in them, I'm guilty myself.

. . . and why can't Look make a PX15/18 for flat skis that doesn't need an R22 plate?

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Originally Posted by gregL

Just because it's on the Internet doesn't make it true - walking around with a ruler in my basement and at the shop, I get 17/25 for the STH2 13 WTR, 20/25 for the Warden 13 MNC, 20/25 for the STH2 16 WTR, 20/25 for the Strive 16, and 17/19 for the Pivot 15 (actually a hair under 17 at the AFD, but closer to 17 than 16.5). Salomon rep confirmed last night that this may be the last year for the STH2, I suggested again they go out in a blaze of glory by making an STH2 Steel with an 18 DIN . . .

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Totally agree on this. Only way to be sure is to measure. Especially now with gripwalk. Look says the Spx 12 is 3 mm heel high. Well maybe it was before Gripwalk. I like 0 delta. So I mounted a 3 mm shim on pair of these and couldn’t really ski. Measured and they were only 1mm heel high. I envy those that can ignore delta, afeel for those like me who it messes with so much.

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Originally Posted by turnfarmer

Totally agree on this. Only way to be sure is to measure. Especially now with gripwalk. Look says the Spx 12 is 3 mm heel high. Well maybe it was before Gripwalk. I like 0 delta. So I mounted a 3 mm shim on pair of these and couldn’t really ski. Measured and they were only 1mm heel high. I envy those that can ignore delta, afeel for those like me who it messes with so much.

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I measure from the topsheet to the top of the AFD, whether the sole is GripWalk or ISO 5355 shouldn't matter - the spec for ISO 5355 is 19mm plus or minus 1mm from AFD contact point to top of toe lug; ISO 23223 aka GripWalk is actually a tighter spec (19mm plus or minus .75mm). Heel height of GripWalk vs 5355 also shouldn't matter, as you are measuring to the bottom of the sole so minor variations in the lug height at the top won't make a difference. I was surprised at the difference between STH2 13 WTR and STH2 16 WTR, I had always assumed the would be identical. All this Strive bashing by people who've never spent a season on them (I'm one of them) may not be warranted; I should get a pair and use them for a year.

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Originally Posted by waxloaf

Thanks - I know warden 13 shares the same heel as sth2 and strive 16, so that all makes sense. And it looks like the warden toe (which is same pattern on both 11 and 13, I believe) is the same pattern as strive toe (both 14 and 16). Strive 14 heel looks like a warden 11 heel, so certainly would make sense then that the Strive 14 would share the same pattern as warden 11. If someone with a shop jig can confirm this that would be great, and I'll post something up here after I do a test mount in case others need the info.

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Confirming for those who may care: strive 14 uses the same mount pattern as Warden 11.

Back to your regularly scheduled binding delta discussion…


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by gregL

. . . and why can't Look make a PX15/18 for flat skis that doesn't need an R22 plate?

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Probably because when that did exist everyone hated it and were begging for the return of the pivot. Those were the heaviest bindings ever and the heel was absolute garbage that would develop slop after 1 week of skiing. The forward pressure setting needed to be dialed, and you couldn’t change bsl length without a remount.


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Originally Posted by gregL

All this Strive bashing by people who've never spent a season on them (I'm one of them) may not be warranted; I should get a pair and use them for a year.

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Agree - I think the issues with the Shifts do not translate into this binding at all. Shifts were a nightmare for me.

I have felt that the heel of salomon bindings has always released in a more 'abrupt' manner that pivots, which feel more 'gradual'. It feels like during the release range of elasticity a higher force is applied over a longer period of time in a pivot than the salomon which has a short peak of force over the elasticity range. Markers sit somewhere in between with that huge dildo spring (honestly, I like the jester 16s). I do feel like I need higher heel dins on the STH over the pivots and markers for landing airs.

I'll be skiing at least one set of strive 16s this year, maybe more. Same heel as STHs, and the toes don't have a moving AFD. It would be cool if they came out with a riser kit for them to test different deltas. I believe that I prefer a slight delta (>pivots at least) for anything that isn't powder. The goal this season is to get my whole resort quiver at the same delta. But, maybe it's all in my head!

My main concern with Strives is actually the material - I sheared off some of the carbon infused material on the Shifts. Does anyone know if the Strives use the STH plastic or the Shift material?

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Originally Posted by gregL

I measure from the topsheet to the top of the AFD, whether the sole is GripWalk or ISO 5355 shouldn't matter - the spec for ISO 5355 is 19mm plus or minus 1mm from AFD contact point to top of toe lug; ISO 23223 aka GripWalk is actually a tighter spec (19mm plus or minus .75mm). Heel height of GripWalk vs 5355 also shouldn't matter, as you are measuring to the bottom of the sole so minor variations in the lug height at the top won't make a difference. I was surprised at the difference between STH2 13 WTR and STH2 16 WTR, I had always assumed the would be identical. All this Strive bashing by people who've never spent a season on them (I'm one of them) may not be warranted; I should get a pair and use them for a year.

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I can confirm that the Strive 16 works just fine. Probably 40-50 days on it this year. Blind, I wouldn't be able to tell it from the STH2.

If I jump from STH2/Strive to Pivot I do notice a difference. Not that I can't ski them, but I feel very flat foot on the Pivot right away. A day or so and I'm back to normal.

Still haven't decided what is going on my new pow skis. Probably STH2'S.

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Originally Posted by tupp_

Agree - I think the issues with the Shifts do not translate into this binding at all. Shifts were a nightmare for me.

I have felt that the heel of salomon bindings has always released in a more 'abrupt' manner that pivots, which feel more 'gradual'. It feels like during the release range of elasticity a higher force is applied over a longer period of time in a pivot than the salomon which has a short peak of force over the elasticity range. Markers sit somewhere in between with that huge dildo spring (honestly, I like the jester 16s). I do feel like I need higher heel dins on the STH over the pivots and markers for landing airs.

I'll be skiing at least one set of strive 16s this year, maybe more. Same heel as STHs, and the toes don't have a moving AFD. It would be cool if they came out with a riser kit for them to test different deltas. I believe that I prefer a slight delta (>pivots at least) for anything that isn't powder. The goal this season is to get my whole resort quiver at the same delta. But, maybe it's all in my head!

My main concern with Strives is actually the material - I sheared off some of the carbon infused material on the Shifts. Does anyone know if the Strives use the STH plastic or the Shift material?

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The 16 has a sliding AFD. At least the pair in my garage do. The plastic feels much more Shift like than STH, but there's a lot of material there compared to Shift's.

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

I can confirm that the Strive 16 works just fine. Probably 40-50 days on it this year. Blind, I wouldn't be able to tell it from the STH2.

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Thanks for the beta. It's just odd the S choose to dump the STH2 w/o clear reasoning or even marketing mouth noises.

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Originally Posted by iriponsnow

Thanks for the beta. It's just odd the S choose to dump the STH2 w/o clear reasoning or even marketing mouth noises.

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I'm not sure if i mentioned it in this thread or my binding thread, but I totally agree. They built another binding, basically on the same platform and with the same features. They claimed lower center of mass (who cares??) and flatter ramp (more direct feel), but really, I think they just felt the need to change. Ironically they probably could have just introduced some cool colorways (IE Look) and they would have sold a ton of bindings. The strage part, to me, is that the features don't span the line. Adjustable toe height on some, but not all for ex.

There are some things I like: elimination of wing adjustment, flatter ramp and sliding AFD (I'm a fan for GW soles).

Maybe I'll move the Strives to my new skis. I have a few more weeks to ponder it.

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Originally Posted by iriponsnow

Thanks for the beta. It's just odd the S choose to dump the STH2 w/o clear reasoning or even marketing mouth noises.

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My guesses were:

(1) Some form of supply chain simplification/cost reductions - I'm sure strives are lower cost to manufacture and have more "synergies" with the Shift and any upcoming Shift 2
(2) The gripwalk "automatic toe height adjustment" seems new to me? Maybe not new? This could be a real selling feature in shops who don't want to explain to customers boot//binding compatibility?
(3) My hope is they launch a top of the line binding this year or next, bringing back the STH steel as the sole remaining STH. :)

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Originally Posted by tupp_

My guesses were:

(1) Some form of supply chain simplification/cost reductions - I'm sure strives are lower cost to manufacture and have more "synergies" with the Shift and any upcoming Shift 2
(2) The gripwalk "automatic toe height adjustment" seems new to me? Maybe not new? This could be a real selling feature in shops who don't want to explain to customers boot//binding compatibility?
(3) My hope is they launch a top of the line binding this year or next, bringing back the STH steel as the sole remaining STH. :)

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

I'm not sure if i mentioned it in this thread or my binding thread, but I totally agree. They built another binding, basically on the same platform and with the same features. They claimed lower center of mass (who cares??) and flatter ramp (more direct feel), but really, I think they just felt the need to change. Ironically they probably could have just introduced some cool colorways (IE Look) and they would have sold a ton of bindings. The strage part, to me, is that the features don't span the line. Adjustable toe height on some, but not all for ex.

There are some things I like: elimination of wing adjustment, flatter ramp and sliding AFD (I'm a fan for GW soles).

Maybe I'll move the Strives to my new skis. I have a few more weeks to ponder it.

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I agree w/ all of this. Perhaps it was the stink of WTR that they were looking to shed? a STH Steel reprise would be awesome.

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Originally Posted by iriponsnow

Thanks for the beta. It's just odd the S choose to dump the STH2 w/o clear reasoning or even marketing mouth noises.

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I am sorry Salomon didn't clear it with you, I also was not consulted prior to the change. ;) I am as big of a fan of the Driver toe as anyone, I started skiing it back in 77 as the 727 and have a pretty good collection of Drivers as anyone. I have about 40 pairs of Strive Demos along with a half dozen pairs of retail versions in our demo fleet. Salomon claims the lower height of the Strive toe makes for a better skiing experience and a quicker reacting ski becauae of the lower CG than the Driver, I have yet to do an A/B L/R comparison because I don't want to put extra holes in a ski, but I will this year compare against the Warden because they share the same pattern.

On the surface, 16 to 16 is a wash, whatever you can find a better deal on. Sth2 13 to Strive 14, give me the Sth2 because the better heel.

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Originally Posted by Flexon Phil

I am sorry Salomon didn't clear it with you, I also was not consulted prior to the change. ;) I am as big of a fan of the Driver toe as anyone, I started skiing it back in 77 as the 727 and have a pretty good collection of Drivers as anyone. I have about 40 pairs of Strive Demos along with a half dozen pairs of retail versions in our demo fleet. Salomon claims the lower height of the Strive toe makes for a better skiing experience and a quicker reacting ski becauae of the lower CG than the Driver, I have yet to do an A/B L/R comparison because I don't want to put extra holes in a ski, but I will this year compare against the Warden because they share the same pattern.

On the surface, 16 to 16 is a wash, whatever you can find a better deal on. Sth2 13 to Strive 14, give me the Sth2 because the better heel.

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My ruler says the Strive 16 toe AFD is 20mm off the ski, which is the same as the STH2 16 WTR (my standard binding). Center of gravity is lower (lower profile housing), but who's going to notice? STH2 16 and Strive 16 use the same heel (25mm off the ski) so delta should be identical. Will check when I mount up a pair of Strives. BTW, your site says 21mm and 24.5mm for the STH2 16 - did you measure that yourself?

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Originally Posted by gregL

BTW, your site says 21mm and 24.5mm for the STH2 16 - did you measure that yourself?

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Honestly I forget what bindings I measured myself but I think I did.

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Originally Posted by Flexon Phil

I am sorry Salomon didn't clear it with you, I also was not consulted prior to the change. ;) I am as big of a fan of the Driver toe as anyone, I started skiing it back in 77 as the 727 and have a pretty good collection of Drivers as anyone. I have about 40 pairs of Strive Demos along with a half dozen pairs of retail versions in our demo fleet. Salomon claims the lower height of the Strive toe makes for a better skiing experience and a quicker reacting ski becauae of the lower CG than the Driver, I have yet to do an A/B L/R comparison because I don't want to put extra holes in a ski, but I will this year compare against the Warden because they share the same pattern.

On the surface, 16 to 16 is a wash, whatever you can find a better deal on. Sth2 13 to Strive 14, give me the Sth2 because the better heel.

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Just looking out for big S.

I think we need a measure off.
Man vs Man.
Caliper vs Caliper.

Any review of the Strive 14 heel ?

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

The warden demo has been my go to over the past few seasons. Any boot, fuck with mount point, reliable.

I skied the Strive demo in shitfuck conditions for a few days. If durability is as good as the Warden -- it'll be my future default binding for skis I want to ski with any boot and lend out to friends. Dampness, power and (as I tested a few times) release felt just as good as Wardens. Don't have to fuck with adjusting toe, and the lower stand height is notable.

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We ran the Warden demo for years on our test fleet. When the Strive was introduced, we immediately switched over mainly because of stand height. I will say, I do like the Warden/Sth2 heel better, we find it a little easier to get into especially with smaller boots.

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Originally Posted by Flexon Phil

I will say, I do like the Warden/Sth2 heel better . . .

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So do I, but the Strive 16 MN has it. Tired of talking out of my ass about not trusting the Strive and stockpiling STH2's; just mounted my trusty 183 Bonafide 97's with a pair of Strive 16's and will see how they perform over the season (same mount pattern as the previous Warden 13 MN, so just screwed them on with fresh epoxy). AFD height off the ski = 21mm, heel height off the ski 25mm, so maybe 1mm less delta than STH2 16 WTR.

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Originally Posted by gregL

So do I, but the Strive 16 MN has it. Tired of talking out of my ass about not trusting the Strive and stockpiling STH2's; just mounted my trusty 183 Bonafide 97's with a pair of Strive 16's and will see how they perform over the season (same mount pattern as the previous Warden 13 MN, so just screwed them on with fresh epoxy). AFD height off the ski = 21mm, heel height off the ski 25mm, so maybe 1mm less delta than STH2 16 WTR.

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Curious to see what you think. Blind, I can't tell the two apart, though my STH2's are 13's and my Strive's are 16's.

I can't come up with a reason to badmouth the Strive except questioning the point. They could have probably come out and said "We built a lower profile toe piece with a sliding AFD to pair with the already great STH heel", but instead we got some BS about lower roll center and flatter angle (BS).

Marketing BS.

I do like the approach on the 14 with the self adjusting height and wings. Brings them into the realm of simplicity with the Pivot. I kinda figured that would be their approach across the line, but there must have been some reasoning against it.

Please correct me because I think I am probably wrong. I keep seeing self adjusting toe height as being a thing on the Strive. If I were to get the Strive 14 MN binding could I go back and forth between touring boots and alpine boots without having to adjust the toe height?


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