I tried that stuff once.
Had to chuck it.
Felt like i was eating poison.
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I tried that stuff once.
Had to chuck it.
Felt like i was eating poison.
After a night of heavy drinking and partying I rolled over in the morning and my arm made a slapping sound on something somewhat cold and somewhat pliable, and yet firm at the same time.
It actually felt like what I would imagine a naked dead body would feel like. The fear of that idea made me jump up in bed, it was then that I then realized that I had 140oz bag of Nacho Cheese Sauce in my bed.
So with a foggy recall of the previous night I remembered that we went to 7-11 after the bar, and we made fun of my drunk buddy getting nachos, we joked that he could not get enough nacho cheese sauce into his little cardboard nacho bowl, so I opened the cupboard beside the machine and saw a big replacement bag of cheese for the machine, and put it in my pants and walked out of the shop.
I must have been so pleased with my prize when I got home I took it to bed with me. It was a bit of a surprise when I slapped in the morning.
Attachment 456406
A queso miracle!
I queso'd a few new chains in the Instapot last weekend.
Feels nice.
I just got all of my new stuff, gonna try it on the gravel bike first. I am planning on using a disposable aluminum pan liner to melt the wax in the ultrasonic cleaner, I’ll report back how it all worked out.
Anyone else using the Silca Super Secret drip lube? I was doing a hot wax all last year, but just gave the Silca drip stuff a shot. Chain was completely silent for a 100 mile road ride. Which, wasn't my experience at all with hot wax. Besides the cost, are there downsides to just running the Silca drip stuff?
I have the Silca wax in the Instapot for my main waxings and then I refresh with the drip.
The drip doesn't work itself in between the rollers as well, so it doesn't last as long on a single treatment. For general riding, more frequent waxing with the drip is fine, but if you have a big day planned that is going to test the longevity I'd dunk in the hot wax.
The drip also gets very thick if it experiences freezing temps and remains unuseable even after it warms up. (All waxes do this- I think the water emulsifier gets separated from the wax). I've had OK luck heating it gentle in the microwave, adding a small bit of water, and shaking vigorously to try to re-emulsify.
Good to know. Sounds like I can't skip hot waxing completely, but maybe knock the hot wax down to like 1-2x a month at most, then use the drip stuff in between. That still beats hot waxing more often.
So, finally trying this after 45 years of oiling chains. Impressions so far are very, very good. Clean, quiet. Started with an absolutely brand new GRX group, so just mineral spirits to deep clean. All I am curious about now is longevity.
You'll prob just forget about wear entirely if you don't ride that bike 200mi a week. It's crazy how long a waxed drivetrain lasts.
Duno about silca wax but I e-mailed the guys at Squirt asking what to do if it freezes and gets thicker ? They said to just add some water which did work but now i take that stuff in every winterQuote:
Originally Posted by XtrPickels
So, I finished Tran-Portugal this week and we had a couple of dry, very fine dust, stages between 5 to 7 hours long.
The waxed chain sucked.
Prior to leaving I dipped a brand new (cleaned) chain in the Silca wax and then reapplied Silca drip after every stage.
The chain always started the day sounding and feeling fresh, but it sound like a bag of rocks within a couple of hours, especially when climbing hard in the 1st or 2nd gear.
I switched to my repair kit wet lube and while the chain was visibly dirtier it was at least quiet.
So, in very fine, powdery sand - the wax lube didn't hold up.
Congrats on finishing. How'd it go? Sounded like hitting training goals was sometimes challenging. Race report coming?Quote:
Originally Posted by XtrPickels
Congrats!Quote:
Originally Posted by XtrPickels
This is my experience as well. I'm still sold on waxing, but compromises must be made for super fine dust conditions, at least after ~4 hours.
Portner has some thoughts on this topic in the most recent Marginal Gains. He claims that the noise is annoying but still faster than wet lube, though eventually you must give in and oil that shit. https://pca.st/episode/6f545b0b-726e...2-dec07120184f
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meconium
https://youtu.be/d56JA8tNlrA
Fuck if I’m watching some internet pissing contest.
Zero Friction seems to be doing high quality work. I trust their results. That said, they’re doing very structured testing, so it’s not going to recreate everything that’s found out the world. Do certain lubes work better at cold temps? In certain dust/sand? Maybe.
Zero Friction does have guidance on lubrication strategies for long events as well. Not sure if it’s different than what XTR tried.
I wonder what it would be like to go to a queso/waxed chain convention. Possibly a good modern day rendition of the The Pez Outlaw could be documented live.
The thing is, by spending all day in a dusty environment, that dust is going to get into your drivetrain, no way around it. Yes, wax lube will be louder/squeakier than standard lube (oil based) in that case.
However, that doesn't mean the oil is working better. The oil will do a better job of quieting the chain but quiet doesn't necessarily mean better.
In these conditions oil, or any wet lube will be a magnet to all that grit and just grind it into the drivetrain. You may not hear it as much but it's definitely doing more damage.
A wax lubed drivetrain may be noisier in that situation but at least it won't collect near as much grit and will actually somewhat repel it.
While your ears may disagree, in those conditions, a hot wax lube is even more better.
I hate myself for it, but I watched this idiot’s stupid video.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meconium
His complaint is that Zero Friction just tries to get people to buy overpriced hot melt lube, but you should just use Squirt? That hot melt waxing is a waste of time and effort?
Looks like they don’t currently have it in store, but ZF was selling Squirt and Smoove for a long time, so not sure what the complaint is exactly?
And ZF is very clear on the advantages of hot melt, but also acknowledges that many people aren’t going to go through the effort. To me they seem to do a great job (well, could be much more concise…) of explaining trade offs for different types of lubes.
For Squirt specifically, a big disadvantage is initial penetration. If you start with a clean chain, it’s very hard to get the lube to where it needs to be inside the chain. That means that even when run in a very clean environment, there is a lot of wear until subsequent applications can help get the lube further in. But then if/when the chain is cleaned thoroughly, you’re back to the initial penetration issue. (That means something like 20% of chain life used used up with Squirt vs, virtually no wear at all for the best lubes in ZF’s initial ‘clean block’ of wear testing.)
Squirt is also much more difficult to clean off the chain. With MSW or Silca hot melt, as well as a few of the more expensive drip wax lubes, the chain can be cleaned by just swishing it around in some hot water. That doesn’t work for Squirt (I’ve tried). Since it’s so easy to clean, that means I actually do it, which regardless of differences in performance of the lube itself, is going to have a huge effect on drivetrain life. (The same is true with using plain paraffin wax instead of bike specific products, the mineral oil content prevents the use of just water for cleaning.)
In short, that guy seems like a giant douche, but I guess he rides faster than Adam from ZF, so his argument wins?
Edit: If you want a drip wax lube that performs similarly to hot melt, Tru-Tension Tungsten All Weather is the best value, but still more expensive than Squirt or Smoove.
Dude's been one of the biggest blowhard douchebags on the entire internet for going on 20 years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
Maybe I should be thankful this is the first time I’ve come across this guy then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
X2Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
yeah pretty much this ^^ i don't see how one would/ could keep the local dirt off their chain ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxtar
I duno what the locals use in Moab but on an 8 day trip I did an initial drip wax + maybe 2 apps of drip while we were there cuz I drip every 3rd ride, the chain got a coating of what I assume was red dust from the local dirt but I didnt notice any extra noise or drive train problems
YMMV but once I initialy get all the petro lube off of a new chain using naptha I don't use anything but drip wax so the chain stays clean/ petro free, IME wax + local dirt is much cleaner than a petro product + local dirt and I never remove or clean the chain
So where does the wax go ? probably the same place petro lube goes from what i have seen using a road bike with trainer indoors the bits of wax fling themself off onto the floor ... I just add more drip wax
In practical use drip wax is not really all that different than using a petro lube just applying before putting away the bike instead of before i ride
Yeah he's a huge piece of shit.
Anyway, the full degrease and hot tub I assume get a lot more wax actually in the chain so it lasts longer and keeps more dirt out.
But also I do use squirt on my chain between hot waxing and it seems fine (just ran out and bought a thing of silca super secret instead). Winter was pretty rough on the chain on my cx bike but after 2500mi it's not really measuring any wear yet. I should probably be taking it off and waxing it more often though, I think I've only done it 3-4 times.
Another thing regarding this noisiness. It is strictly the grit on the chain making it. It doesn't necessarily mean the chain needs more lube.
Here in NM moon dust is everywhere and thus, things get a little noisy by the end of most rides. I just do a quick low pressure/high volume hose rinse of the chain and all is good.
This is a good point. Simply rinsing the chain can make the noise go away for longer than you'd think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxtar
I also regularly notice that chains feel quite well-lubed after I wash them in boiling water in preparation for a re-wax, even when they had been horribly noisy. I agree with the others that the noise is probably still faster than using oil and actually having dirt inside of the chain.
But holy shit, it sure sounds like the drivetrain is going to self-destruct when it gets bad.
From what I’ve experienced, it also seems like 12sp Shimano chains get extra noisy surprisingly quickly when dry, especially in the 2biggest cogs.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Damn, I thought I had a lock on that. I need to work harder!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
White gas or mineral spirits for initial clean? I have both.
Probably go with whatever cleans better up front and can always do an ISO or brake cleaner rinse to get any residue.
Zero Friction process is mineral spirits changes until they stay clear, then an alcohol rinse to remove residue.Quote:
Originally Posted by east or bust
I have a lot of Coleman fuel, so use that. I still do the alcohol rinse, but not sure it’s actually necessary with the Coleman.
ETA: Zero Friction does pre-prepped chains with the approval of the lube manufacturers, so the ZF process is de-facto lube manufacturer process as well.
ime coiling the chain in a few inches of of naptha AKA white gas in a jam jar overnight gets the chain super clean and the liquid evaporates completely so the chain is dry, no residue no rinsing needed
I've heard good things about starting with gasoline. It seems like it would break down anything (oils, waxes, etc) pretty thoroughly.
Never tried it but maybe on next chain.
I had a can of white gas AKA Naptha in the shed, I figured since I got it ... try it
coil the chain into a 3" jar so its easier to cover with white gas,
let soak overnight and the chain will come out super clean, no need to pre-soak, no need to rinse
Cool, going to commence the soak with white gas tonight and will report back sometime in the next few days.
Well?Quote:
Originally Posted by east or bust
I find gasoline cleans better than mineral spirits, but it's nastier to work with, so I still just use mineral spirits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxtar
I agree but mineral spirits doesn't seem to break down the heavy lubes used in new chains that well.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
Especially getting in the rollers.
Hoping white gas is a good middle ground.
I'm rewaxing 2 chains today for our gravel bikes. The first one is in the wax and so far I'm into it for about 5 minutes of active work time. Will def be under 8 mins total.
You’re a lying sack of shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
/s
That was my situationQuote:
Originally Posted by joetron