Thanks for doing this. Always had an interest
Thanks for doing this. Always had an interest
On the question of smoke from roasting, my wife (who isn't a coffee drinker) is of the strong opinion that all roasting must be done outside. Though again, this is with the $20 roaster and not the $1,400 roaster.
I also don't notice a huge difference with degassing post-roasting. Sure, harder to get a good extraction right after roasting, but usually I'm excited to try out whatever I just roasted, so I brew a cup.
Finally, if you have two small kids and making pour-over coffee in the morning feels like too much "active" work, the Clever Coffee Dripper is sort of a hybrid between a pour-over and a french press, but without the grit of a french press: https://amzn.to/3kYMKu2
yeah people think that roasting coffee must smell amazing. it doesn't. well - i mean - i love the smell of it, but i think that's pavlovian. it certainly doesn't smell like brewing coffee; it's like a sweet smell of burnt paper.Quote:
Originally Posted by cravenmorhead
for degassing - i do honestly think that some coffees really come into their own after a few days. more than once i've been excited to drink something so i brew a cup pretty much from the cooling tray, only to be sorely disappointed. then, i forget about the coffee, move on with my life, and come back a week later only to find out that it's turned into something fantastic. idk though. for me - kenyans and washed ethiopians drink really well right out of the roaster, but naturals tend to need a few days. in either case though - 2 week old coffee isn't ever BAD coffee. 3 month old beans, sure, but 2 weeks is still great.
+1 on the clever. i brewed on one for a few years until it broke. got it from kyle dempster, again, a fucking legend in every sense.
Attachment 337552
first batch of mag coffee is roasted and ready to go out!
Wow. $160-200 for a hand grinder is a tough pill to swallow. I bought this guy about 5 years ago and am pretty happy with it: https://rhinocoffeegear.com/rhino-co...d-grinder.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
Grind quality is probably comparable to the Hario but the overall design and ergonomics seem a lot better.
Drink more coffee, or just chew up whole cheap beans. Seriously. I do this for caffeine dosing on long rides and runs. In brewed coffee a lot of the caffeine must get left behind in the spent grounds because eating beans feels like it gives 2-3x the caffeine kick. Start small and eat more if needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo
it looks like the same burr set as the Hario, but way easier to use. yeah get that one. the hario sucks to use. the grind quality is good - amazing at that price point. it's just the ergonomics of the thing that are awful. good recommendation!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
and yeah $200 on a hand grinder is a bit much - but for something i use every day, i think it's worthwhile. hell, i spent way more on my microwave, and i don't use that on the daily.
fwiw this hand grinder is what my heart lusts after:
Attachment 337557
at $1000 - it's a lot. but some day.
https://weberworkshops.com/products/hg-1
That is insane. Totally rad, but insane. The $200 grinder is a totally justifiable purchase for someone as into coffee as you are. Plus, it will probably last your entire life. One thing I forgot to mention about the Rhino grinder, if you need to grind a lot you can hook it up to your drill chuck in a jiff.Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
Awesome tgapp, I think you've talked me into the aeropress. I have a decent grinder, a scale and an electric kettle, so I just need to learn the process.
if you do aeropress get either the prismo pressure valve or a metal screen. the prismo pressure valve allows you to make decent "espresso light" coffee, while the metal screen is just less fussy and allows for more oil to come thru to the cup (richer flavor IMO). i like the prismo personally, but i'm not a daily aeropress drinker.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Looks like the prismo includes a metal screen?Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
What do you think of this process: https://fellowproducts.com/blogs/lea...-prismo-recipe
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
I'll vouch for all of those items.Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
I bought that burr grinder back when it was still named Solis Maestro so that's gotta be what... at least a decade ago? ...and it's still going strong. For the hundredish bucks I spent, it's down to about a penny per use at this point. Highly recommended. (since I'm a heathen, I do use it for espresso as well)
For a single cup, I have the smaller version of that v60. It's perfect for when it's zerodark:30 and I need just enough coffee for the drive to work. Since travel mugs have grown to ridiculous quantities, I probably need a bigger one now. The simplest solutions are often the best.
And I guess I'm a Luddite, because my kettle is heated by the stove.
We also have two bonavita drip machines, and IMHO they make the best drip (at anywhere near their price point). And they're fast. Most other inexpensive drip machines don't get the water hot enough or allow too much cooling.
looks good, the only trouble i have with that is how specific the temps are for it. kind of a pain in the ass at home, on a tuesday, at 4 o'clock in the morning before a dawn patrol. i would try it and see if you like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Good point on the temps. I would never make that happen. I'll keep looking...Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
Add grounds to AP, add water to AP, stir, steep, press.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
This. The best part of an AP is its pretty hard to fuck up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
You new here? What about the pre soak, the weighing, the grind sifting, timers......;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Some of those Brewer's Cup recipes are just ridiculous, that one included. Also, the Prismo looks cool and worth the modest price for the nice filter screen and no-drip check valve, but I'm calling BS on it making anything truly close to espresso. Espresso machines usually extract at around 9 bars of pressure, that's 130 psi. You will not and should not get anywhere close to that much pressure in an AP.
Yeah, what in the actual fuck is going on with that? I’m trying to get caffeinated quickly and painlessly not measure water temperatures for ten minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
YOU NEED THE 600 MICRON SCREEN GODDAMMIT, IT'LL JUST BE PISS WATER WITH THE 500!Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
this tek seems pretty simple:
https://fellowproducts.com/blogs/bre...on-brew-how-to
^^ this is true but the prismo valve will extract MORE of the oils in coffee then a simple immersion style brew method. it's a great cup of coffee - usually around a 3:1 ratio with lots of flavor. people just compare it to espresso because that's the closest referent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Even this I find pretty dubious. I doubt it extracts more oils that any other method that doesn't use a paper filter.Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
maybe not, idk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
i have an espresso machine capable of flow profiling - which means, among other things, that i have a $3k piece of hardware that effectively imitates a $25 aeropress - and i use it in aeropress mode all the time. coarser grind, no real "puck" to speak of, and i never let the pressure get above 2 bars (i reckon you're getting between 2 and 4 bars of pressure with the prismo gizmo). i even do the same ratios, more or less - like 25 g in, 100g out. all i can say is, it's MUCH richer than immersion brewing at the same ratio. it's one of my favorite brewing methods - especially because i can do it right away and not wait 6 days for the coffee to be ready for espresso. and yeah for $25 it's a no brainer IMO, even if it's not espresso.
but yeah i'm honestly not a coffee snob, and i think that at the point where you're worried about 145 degree water on your bloom, you've kind of missed the whole point of the goddamn thing.
sorry bro you're a coffee snobQuote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
That's some interesting data for sure. Still, 2 bars is a decent amount of pressure, 28 psi. The area of an AP filter is ~5 in^2, so even if I were to put my whole 160 lb bodyweight onto the plunger that's ~30 psi. This gal weighs less and isn't pressing with anything close to her full bodyweight:Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
https://media.giphy.com/media/l378yn...X5u0/giphy.gif
With her arms extended like that I'm calling it at 50 lbs total force tops, so 10 psi/<1 bar. It's a little hard to say since they don't publish the actual pressure the check valve activates at. But, just watching that GIF, that looks like about the same amount of force required using the ultrafine SS filter I own with no valve, i.e. the pressure probably is dictated by the grounds "clogging" the filter screen and not the valve.
i mean ya ok fair point, but i also try to keep things simple. and roasting is honestly just because it saves me a fuckton of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
do i get any credit for drinking a lot of instant coffee? i do love me some instant.
NoneQuote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
I gotta stick up for tgapp here. Unlike the the stereotypical dickishness and airs of superiority indicative of the typical snob, tgapp seems uncharacteristically mellow in is reactions to other coffee makers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
Not once has he told anyone here to eat a bag of dicks for doing it wrong. Not even a single request for pics of a nekkid sister. Real gentleman.
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ConnoisseurQuote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
Oh man I got nothing but support for tgapp, no animosity here just trying to poke in jest. He is graciously dumping knowledge and sending bags of beans in the mail, fkn cool. I'm learning a fair amount and enjoying the thread. FWIW, I'm firmly in the camp of fresh daily grind w/ aeropress, but now finding myself contemplating calling a small batch roaster for the first time. I greatly enjoyed coffee from $25k machines in the Alps but am also cheap and would rather spend coins and mental powers on other things.
Don't coffee snobs sorta enjoy their moniker? I see it as a harmless sort of aloof smug enjoyment of not just the taste but the ritual. Maybe being a snob about anything else is sort of angry or deriding and less soulful. Or maybe I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.
But I think most would see this level of discussion as only coming from a coffee snob. shrug, carry on
As a powder snob, I concur.
But I would totally give tgapp credit for instant if he can name a flavored coffee he likes. Ain't no snob gonna do that.
Nekkid pics of his sister would help too. Just sayin’. This is still TGR, right?!
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Snob and enthusiast are the two sides of the coin. The snob is the pedantic asshole, enthusiast the excited expert.
My 6am latte makes the world bearable. Knowing I kinda suck at it makes it easier to accept my low functioning morning brain.
heh you guys are great, thanks for humoring me. and honestly - i guess my whole deal with coffee is, you can level up your coffee game without too much work or effort, and you don't need to be an asshole about it. lots of ways of doing this right.
and yeah i'm a total snob, but i also fucking love diner coffee. for flavors - either whiskey or heavy cream. i like bailey's from time to time but i don't stock it in my bar. i also love affogatos which is a fancy italian way of saying espresso on top of ice cream.
also on the subject of instant coffee, if anyone wants to drink dope ass coffee in the backcountry:
https://swiftcupcoffee.com/ - powdered and delicious
https://cometeer.com/ - keurig-compatible, frozen, recylable, and fucking amazing.
i'll see if i can get some naked pics from my sister, hang on
thanks, we'll be here. no rushQuote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
I had the pleasure of receiving my beans from tgapp in person last night and "enthusiast" is exactly the word I'd use. Great guy who is just stoked on coffee. I'm enjoying my first cup at this very moment and the shit's good!Quote:
Originally Posted by schuss
The term snob carries negative connotations.
Enthusiast is a better descriptor for tgapp.
Plenty of coffee (/beer/whiskey/music/skis etc) snobs out there - this thread is a demonstration of how a topic can be discussed with enthusiasm but without snobbery.
Anyway...I sip coffee and await the posting of pics.
Where is Hemingway when you need him? He called those with expert insights into bullfighting aficionados. Cognoscenti works too: English might not be up to the taskQuote:
Originally Posted by bennymac
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Being a snob at something is not something to take lightly. I take my powder skiing snobery seriously. I have been called a coffee snob but that was because I think starfucks and folgers suck a half mile of cock. I'm far fam a coffee snob.
I recently bought a small hand crank burr grinder, "Henry Charles Finest Collection | Brushed Stainless Steel with Adjustable Ceramic Grinder" no idea if it's any good but it grinds coffee. I typically buy some kinda medium roast, something like kicking horse or Saltspring island or some smallish large coffee roaster in the $10 - 15/lb range. Then I throw it in the rotary grinder and smash the shit out of it for 30 seconds, followed by either a stove top espresso pot of french press. The french press ends up a little silty at the bottom but I'm OK with a bit of mud in the bottom of my cup. I did notice a difference in the flavour using the burr grinder, not sure how to describe it but it seems mellower. I don't measure ground coffee I start with about the same amount of beans and use the same amount of water and I like it like that. This morning I thought I was a little light going into the grinder but didn't do anything about it and sure enough my coffee was not up to specification.
Im squarely outta my league here and this thread makes me feel supremely jongey but I have a confession. I can barely choke down black coffee, even the good stuff, and need creamer to knock the edge of the acidity. BITD it was "light n sweet" at funkin gonuts butg Im more refined now and use Laird Superfood Creamer. I could maybe grow to like black coffee but Ive tried and repeatedly failed. Oh and my favorite coffee is Cafe Ibis Highlander Grogg. No shit they are always sold out at my Harmons so when its there I buy two packs. Well that is two confessions and Im pretty sure TGAPP and me might not be friends now. But I am an ahhhhsential employee and willing to give small batch TGAPP glory beans a try. I own no grinder (other than Indy 169s) but did spend 20 bucks at wallyworld tha other dayyyy for a blackndecker drip coffeepot WITH timer so you could say Im catching onto this fancy coffee thing you guys are laying down. There may be hope for me yet!
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Right on bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2e
https://youtu.be/qs4mtbTsaL4
highlander grog! i think that was one of the very first coffees i ever had, fun stuff. also when i learned that if i put whiskey in my coffee it tasted pretty much the same, i just started doing that instead. all of the flavor and more of the alcohol.Quote:
Originally Posted by happytimefunbox
there's no right way to drink coffee - no moral hierarchy to taste - so if you like your coffee with cream and sugar, fucking drink it that way. i love lattes and cappucinos, and both of those have milk that's been sweetened by being steamed, so whatever works for you man. and cream in coldbrew is delicious.
BUT - let's talk for a minute about 1. why "dark roasted coffee" is so ubiquitous, and 2. why we all feel the need to add cream and sugar to it. because - while taste is taste, there are some fascinating economic reasons behind that taste.
so, first off, if i didn't establish this already, coffee has terroir - flavor from how it's grown, what sorts of plants, and how it's processed. if you don't believe that, then you probably think that all wine tastes the same, too - because they both come from grapes, a merlot is the same as a sauvignon blanc - turns out, if you mix either with coke (like the french are fond of), they'll both get you fucked up just the same.
during the industrial revolution, consumer demand for coffee went through the roof (gotta keep those worker bees productive in a 12 hour shift somehow..). coffee roasting production also went from being something made at home over the stove top, to something made in giant factories, served up pre-ground to consumers everywhere. as a consequence of this process, how we drink coffee as a culture (and how coffee is roasted) changed dramatically.
first, the economics of it: coffee is a commodity, sold at auction by the lot - if you are a buyer for a major commercial roaster, and you can get one coffee one year from guatemala for $2.61 vs the $2.62 you paid last year for a columbian coffee, obviously, that 1-cent savings is gonna end up being significant over a couple thousand tons of the shit. so - you switch gears, save a little money, and have a different bean. problem is - if you roast them to a medium roast level (or lighter), your consumers are gonna know the difference. "what is this swill?? this isn't what we got last time, we're not buying this again!".
the solution? roast the ever living shit out of it, because everything tastes the same once it's carbonized. cheap coffee roasted light to medium tastes like shit, but each cheap coffee will taste like shit in it's own unique way ("is that dirt or horse dung i taste?"). once you roast it dark enough, all cheap coffee tastes like shit in the SAME way. buyers can swap out greens to keep their bottom line low from year to year, all while offering the same consumer experience (sidebar: this is also where the practice of blending coffee came into being, since it's easier to keep the same flavor if you're only substituting one or two components a year). this is the business model that maxwell house, folgers, etc popularized, and why we don't think of coffee the same way as wine.
so now you have black coffee, literally, roasted to the point where it's lost anything that once made it unique, and with enough time, this is all consumers ever think of as coffee. the problem is - fundamentally - it does not taste good. it is bitter and acrid and sour and it lacks body, really, just piss poor stuff. how the fuck do we con people into drinking this, other then telling them that the capitalist machine depends on their continued productivity, so they need to take their medicine?
enter starbucks: starbucks was the first major coffee house to figure out that what they are selling isn't coffee - it's caffeine, in the form of coffee. not only that, but they realized that by intentionally favoring really dark roasts, they could capitalize on how BAD their product tastes by making it necessary to add a fuck ton of sugar, cream, and flavoring to make the shit palatable. making a consumer product that combines sugar, caffeine, and fat was a masterstroke of marketing (a real trifecta of addiction if there ever was one), and it's largely responsible for shifting consumer preferences for our entire population. what was once a dark to very dark roast is now considered a medium roast, and the idea of drinking "black coffee" became this signifier of toughness - "real men drink their coffee black" - as if it was a right of passage or something.
tl;dr: most commercial coffee was never intended to be drank black - it's engineered to save production costs and to NEED cream and sugar (which make coffee even more habit forming/addicting, driving sales) in order to be palatable. it also set the bar incredibly low for coffee - such that, a lot of roasters realize that they don't need to be making world class coffee, they just need something that is more palatable than folgers - which is honestly where coffee like kicking horse and cafe ibis comes in. while those coffees aren't bad, all they are doing really is sounding like fancy coffee, while really only being a step or two up from Starbucks. those roasters basically exploit consumer ignorance/indifference, knowing that the gap between shit (cheap as fuck coffee) and decent (them) is much bigger than the gap between decent and exceptional, while the price gaps between cheap and decent is much smaller than the price gap between decent and good (Cheap coffee is $8/bag, decent coffee is $12/bag, and good coffee is usually $20-25 a bag).
enter real, single-origin coffee, like the shit i'm a snob about: SO coffee, when done well, is neither bitter nor acrid, and should have balanced acidity (coffee is acidic, but it shouldn't be overwhelming). good coffee is sweet - not in the sugarwater way, but it does have a pleasant sweetness. good coffee should be much closer to tea in flavor and balance than ash-water.