21/22 Bikes That Make Your Shorts Tighter.

Having some fun since my wife kind of passively green lighted a new bike for me about a year from now (maybe frames will actually be in stock due to supply chain beefing up and COVID-pumped demand not sustaining???) ... my bike would hand-me-down to her, which is fine, since she really likes my bike, and it is a pretty nice bike.

Any thoughts on this?
- Lightweight - closer to 2015 era bikes than now bikes
- 27.5 front and back (probably like 2.5-2.6F and 2.4-2.5R)
- Really good technical climber (sustained successive roots and step-ups) that can still send sustained 3-4000’ backcountry trail descents at speed ... so I’m not talking gravity/bike park and being able to blast braking bumps and maintain the high speeds already designed into the course, I’m talking about stable handling on steep rocks, being able to navigate tight switchbacks with step downs and chunder, and slowly dialing up speed and playfulness and jumps as exposure / trail steepness / consequences start to come down (but not lose the brakes or shock to overheating)
- Yes to modern geo but not so modern that wheelbase is excessive for sharp switchbacks - I think that basically limits reach to about 455 mm for a medium frame and head angle to 64.5, I might even stick with 65 to 65.4

Basically, I’m looking for a 27.5 aggressive/fun trail bike that compared to my current bike: climbs much better over technical obstacles while dampers are fully open, has slightly better damping over successive crap, has more progressive geo for more playfulness and stability. I could also probably use a more powerful front brake. I’m also extremely lightweight so I can handle lighter weight frame construction and parts that might flex or break under a Clyde but would still be stiff responsive and reliable when I’m piloting. Use is primarily human powered riding in Western Oregon (steep big vert, some chunk but not too much, high trail speeds going down) and occasional road trips throughout the Western US and Canada.

Current bike is:
Bronson v1 CC (-1.5 angleset), 160mm Pike A1 RCT3, Monarch+ RC3 (RWC needle bearing upgrade as well)
Carbon 30mm IW wheels (not boost, Sped Precision)
X01 11-sp / Garbaruk cassette
XT 8000 180mm F/R brakes
Carbon bars

I’m guessing my bike is somewhere around 28.5 lbs

It seems like an SB140 T1 with the full XT build, stick with Fox 36 fork and add carbon rim upgrade would be a top contender, adding climbing prowess stability damping playfulness stronger brakes, same class of other components, without adding much heft ...

What other bikes am I missing here? I haven’t demo’ed much in a while and all I’ve seen is complete bike weights going up in the name of stiffness and shred ...

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Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

27.5 aggressive/fun trail bike

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tranny scout

2020 Scout, Newer bronson if you like VPP, Mojo, Current generation Mojo (not hd) if you like dw-link.

I'm not a midget, so I picked 29" and am a dick about it, but...

I spent a few hours on an Eskar Elkat and really enjoyed it.
https://eskercycles.com/products/elkat

It would take some $$$$ to get it to 28#, but an SB140 isn't free either.

I think weights are going up in the name of durability.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlh

2020 Scout, Newer bronson if you like VPP, Mojo, Current generation Mojo (not hd) if you like dw-link.

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I’ll keep those in mind.

On the Scout, I was concerned that Transition tends to be heavier, less focused on tech climbing skills, and the wheelbase might be too long for some of our switchbacks ... looks like with the 2020 updates only wheelbase might be the main concern.

I always have the Mojo in mind - wife has a gen 1 SL which I like for how light and snappy it is, and its climbing skills. But I hate the geo - it’s super small and feels like I’m gonna go OTB if I don’t perfectly stick weighting and tire placement.

I really liked the Bronson V2 - that generation of VPP linkage has serious improvement over mine for both up and down - but now with the tunnel shock linkage I wonder if it’s more bike and more pork than I need, so maybe I’ll
keep the 5010 CC in mind ... those bikes have definitely gotten heavier over the years.

I also have much love for RideGG - the custom ordering platform would allow me to get a pretty customized Shred Dogg and for less cash than a fully built SB140. I just haven’t demo’ed their Revved frame bikes and don’t know how the platform handles climbing over rocky nasty stuff compared to the bikes above.

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Originally Posted by bagtagley

I think weights are going up in the name of durability.

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and lifetime warranties

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ticketchecker

and lifetime warranties

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Santa Cruz had that 6 years ago when their carbon frames were a half pound lighter ...

Another compelling reason to go Shred Dogg is that I can always get a Smash chain stay kit (and might need a different shock) then pull the boost 29” Pike and 29 x 2.6 wheels off of my Pedalhead and run that bike for road trips in gnarly terrain ...
[emoji848]

^ I think that’s the winner, especially because I already have the 29” wheelset (35mm IW) and 29” 150mm fork. It’s another $820 for the Smash seatstay kit plus DPX2 Performance.

Then I’d have a mid travel 27.5 play bike for fun terrain (primary use) and a mid-plus travel 29” trail eating bike for nasty terrain (road trip use). And once I get a truck (for room to bring extra gear plus family) both wheelsets/stay kits can travel with on road trips.

I’ll go back to lurking / ogling this thread now, and trying to save cash smartly over the next year!!!!

The only issue with GG is that their frames are ‘new school’, and a bit portly for your desired weight, IMO. (They KICK ASS otherwise!)
That said, I don’t know what an SB140 frame weighs...

New Scout got revised leverage curve now. All the reviews of it have said it pedals MUCH better than the first gen SBG bikes. It is entirely possible to have great pedaling Horst-link type bikes (see GG bikes), if the anti-squat and leverage curve are turned right, which it sounds like they are for the new Scout and Sentinel.

All the more modern bikes are going to weigh more than your old Bronson, just by fact of them being longer. I went from a 30# coil sprung Nomad 3 (medium) to a ~32# Sentinel 1 to a ~33# coil Smash. 29 anything is also heavier. A friend is starting to look at replacements for his Bronson 2 which is also around 28#, and he's all disappointed because even a new Tallboy weighs more than that.

I'd say forget about the weight concerns and get a Pistola. The 29" wheels are VERY noticeable at picking up and carrying speed on the straighter / smoother sections, besides getting up and over rocks easier. And it will be a very efficient climber. I run a coil on my Revved Smash and haven't used the climb switch yet.

I agree with rideit. The Revved GG frames are portly. I've been riding a Pistola for a year now. It pedals great but it weighs a lot.

I hear you ...

Listed weight for SB140 frame is 6.85 lbs ... with shock??? I assume since it's sold with a 210x55 DPX2 that it's included in their listed weight.
Listed weight for Shred Dogg is 6.5 lbs ... without shock. DPX2 adds roughly 1 to 1.1 lbs depending on eye to eye length right?

So the SB140 is almost a full pound lighter.


BUT ... the allure of 2 new bikes for an extra $820 is really, really, intriguing enough to make me stop counting grams. Especially because I already have the boost 29 fork and wheelset.
Basically, my quiver would be like this:

Ready to Go:
-Shred Dogg: 27.5" modern geo mid travel (130-140r/150f) fun party bike (biased toward May-October conditions) - great for FUN dry rides and not-too-rowdy terrain
-Pedalhead: 29" modern geo rowdy 120-150f hardtail (biased toward November-April conditions but rideable year round) - great for short rides and wet rides
-Bronson v1: 27.5 old geo lightweight all-mountain travel (150r/130-160f) bike - backup for long rides with big vert (my wife does not come along on these anyways) if I actually notice the Shred Dogg being 1.5 lbs heavier than my Bronson

With 30-40 minutes of work:
-29" mid-plus travel (145R/120-150F) trail swallowing bike - great for gnarly terrain and or long rides with gnar, mostly for road trips / special trips

Basically I could custom build the Shred Dog with a short lower headset cup that makes the Smash more fun, while offsetting the shorter resulting stack height in 27.5 mode (GG factory normally supplies a slightly taller lower cup for 27.5) by running the 27.5 fork at 150mm, and also ask for an extra inch of rear brake hose so that swapping the stays isn't a royal pain in the ass. Then cave and buy one of those rotor alignment guides to make re-centering the rear brake a little faster to do. I wouldn't have to worry about front brake alignment because the fork would come over with the 29" wheels. And also just make sure to run the same headset on both of my GG bikes so that the 27.5 and 29" fork use the same crown race.

It's *extremely* alluring, at the expense of a pound of weight added to the Shred Dogg over the SB140 ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

Santa Cruz had that 6 years ago when their carbon frames were a half pound lighter ...

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I kinda figured the advent of the warranty facilitated the weight gain. Regardless I’ve got a V2 Bronson CC that is svelte compared to the GF’s ‘19 5010c

Yeah... Santa Cruz frames used to be around 5lbs flat and were really durable.

The couple pound increase really is fairly substantial percentage. Makes me wonder the ‘why’ behind that. I’m sure they ride better now but still.

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Originally Posted by ticketchecker

I kinda figured the advent of the warranty facilitated the weight gain. Regardless I’ve got a V2 Bronson CC that is svelte compared to the GF’s ‘19 5010c

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

Having some fun since my wife kind of passively green lighted a new bike for me about a year from now (maybe frames will actually be in stock due to supply chain beefing up and COVID-pumped demand not sustaining???) ... my bike would hand-me-down to her, which is fine, since she really likes my bike, and it is a pretty nice bike.

Any thoughts on this?
- Lightweight - closer to 2015 era bikes than now bikes
- 27.5 front and back (probably like 2.5-2.6F and 2.4-2.5R)
- Really good technical climber (sustained successive roots and step-ups) that can still send sustained 3-4000’ backcountry trail descents at speed ... so I’m not talking gravity/bike park and being able to blast braking bumps and maintain the high speeds already designed into the course, I’m talking about stable handling on steep rocks, being able to navigate tight switchbacks with step downs and chunder, and slowly dialing up speed and playfulness and jumps as exposure / trail steepness / consequences start to come down (but not lose the brakes or shock to overheating)
- Yes to modern geo but not so modern that wheelbase is excessive for sharp switchbacks - I think that basically limits reach to about 455 mm for a medium frame and head angle to 64.5, I might even stick with 65 to 65.4

Basically, I’m looking for a 27.5 aggressive/fun trail bike that compared to my current bike: climbs much better over technical obstacles while dampers are fully open, has slightly better damping over successive crap, has more progressive geo for more playfulness and stability. I could also probably use a more powerful front brake. I’m also extremely lightweight so I can handle lighter weight frame construction and parts that might flex or break under a Clyde but would still be stiff responsive and reliable when I’m piloting. Use is primarily human powered riding in Western Oregon (steep big vert, some chunk but not too much, high trail speeds going down) and occasional road trips throughout the Western US and Canada.

Current bike is:
Bronson v1 CC (-1.5 angleset), 160mm Pike A1 RCT3, Monarch+ RC3 (RWC needle bearing upgrade as well)
Carbon 30mm IW wheels (not boost, Sped Precision)
X01 11-sp / Garbaruk cassette
XT 8000 180mm F/R brakes
Carbon bars

I’m guessing my bike is somewhere around 28.5 lbs

It seems like an SB140 T1 with the full XT build, stick with Fox 36 fork and add carbon rim upgrade would be a top contender, adding climbing prowess stability damping playfulness stronger brakes, same class of other components, without adding much heft ...

What other bikes am I missing here? I haven’t demo’ed much in a while and all I’ve seen is complete bike weights going up in the name of stiffness and shred ...

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Doesn't that pretty much describe the Bronson you already have?

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Originally Posted by panchosdad

Doesn't that pretty much describe the Bronson you already have?

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Almost but not quite:
- V1 Bronson can get hung up in successive steep technical rock areas compared to the V2, Yeti Switch/infinity, etc
- Geo isn’t quite where I’d like - chain stay is longer than current model, BB is higher, and front end is cramped so that the shortest stem I can run right now is 60mm (hopefully newer bikes will have more room for my daughter on a Macridemore seat too)
- My fork’s damper and this bike’s frame doesn’t mute trail chatter and braking bumps as much as newer bikes do

Seems like a used V2 with DPX2/Fox 36 and everything else on it lightweight might even qualify ...

Can you really worry about weight when discussing a Bronson? And I'll take their warranty any day over a lb or two. Just go on a diet if you want lose a couple.

I'm on a v3 bronson and in your weight range. I've never actually weighed mine, it's not the lightest, but that being said it climbs exceptionally well in technical terrain and I think rides lighter than it is, and it really handles rowdy dh terrain very well. I was convinced to get a large, I've been steadfastly a 'medium' guy for decades, and while for me it's great in fast, open, straighter terrain, I find I get bogged a bit in tighter turns/situations and it feels a bit unwieldy. I'm only 5'10" with a short torso and arms, so the reach just feels a bit long, even with the shortest stem I can run (31mm Chromag Ranger), I did mvoe to the 35mm rise Cutlass bars and that little bit of extra height has been nice. I'll likely go medium in the future if I stay on the bronson, although if they'd be a bit more aggressive in steepening the seat tube angle, the reach could be less problematic. Anyway, my experience fwiw.

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Originally Posted by t.odd

I'm on a v3 bronson and in your weight range. I've never actually weighed mine, it's not the lightest, but that being said it climbs exceptionally well in technical terrain and I think rides lighter than it is, and it really handles rowdy dh terrain very well. I was convinced to get a large, I've been steadfastly a 'medium' guy for decades, and while for me it's great in fast, open, straighter terrain, I find I get bogged a bit in tighter turns/situations and it feels a bit unwieldy. I'm only 5'10" with a short torso and arms, so the reach just feels a bit long, even with the shortest stem I can run (31mm Chromag Ranger), I did mvoe to the 35mm rise Cutlass bars and that little bit of extra height has been nice. I'll likely go medium in the future if I stay on the bronson, although if they'd be a bit more aggressive in steepening the seat tube angle, the reach could be less problematic. Anyway, my experience fwiw.

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I've got a Large v4 nomad, and am 5'10" (although with long ape arms and average torso.) I put my bike in "low" mode and it effectively split the difference between a Medium and Large for reach, plus makes the bike more progressive in the rear shock. Don't notice the lower BB much, they are fucking low bikes either way. Might try that if you're feeling your bronson is a little bargey. I liked it before in "high", "low" is like party mode, especially in corners. Just feels way more fun.

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Originally Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as Leavenworth Skier

I've got a Large v4 nomad, and am 5'10" (although with long ape arms and average torso.) I put my bike in "low" mode and it effectively split the difference between a Medium and Large for reach, plus makes the bike more progressive in the rear shock. Don't notice the lower BB much, they are fucking low bikes either way. Might try that if you're feeling your bronson is a little bargey. I liked it before in "high", "low" is like party mode, especially in corners. Just feels way more fun.

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I actually ran it in low for a couple of months and just didn't fully jive on tighter technical stuff so put it back into high and think i prefer it there at this point.

I see a lot of press about the new Trek Slash... am i interested?? maybe?

The new Slash looks like a sweet bike but I'm not a fan of it using a proprietary shock.

Or a 75* STA with an effective STA likely around 70*. And $4,000 for the frame? Hahahaha.

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Originally Posted by Kopi_Red

The new Slash looks like a sweet bike but I'm not a fan of it using a proprietary shock.

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Fits plenty of other shocks. Trek always runs something unique on the Slash.

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Originally Posted by smmokan

Or a 75* STA with an effective STA likely around 70*.

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Heh

https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb19249314/p5pb19249314.jpg

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Heh

https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb19249314/p5pb19249314.jpg

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So weird...b/c it looks like they could have easily made the STA about 3-5deg steeper if they wanted to.*



*I am not a materials enginerd or composites specialist.

I'm not sure the rails on that saddle appreciate being clamped there.

looks like no dropper travel either.

I am 5'9 and just fit a 210mm dropper on my M N9.....

Yeah, somebody convince me that that new Slash isn't a swing and a miss on the geo, proprietary BS, and cost fronts?

Also, the fact that Trek called it "The trail bike of trail bikes" on PB. WTF is that even supposed to mean? It has a freaking Zeb on it. Color me unimpressed.

It's a badass race bike. You either buy it to race or to look like a racer.

Most of the big brands aren't jumping on the steep seat tube angle train.

Few if any are buying the frame alone. Shop rats don't pay $4000 for the frame. They will sell out quickly.

There are so many options these days. Few people at races are on the same bike.

I really liked my 2018 Slash. But yeah, the geo on the old one looks pretty dated by modern standards, and the new one doesn't seem to go very far in fixing those issues. And it still has knock block, even though the fork doesn't hit the downtube. Not sure what the point of that is.

So yeah, while I bet it still rides well (I really like that suspension design), it isn't everything it could / should be. Which in the current market pretty much means it's a miss.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

So yeah, while I bet it still rides well (I really like that suspension design), it isn't everything it could / should be. .

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Whatever happened in the Trek v. Giant legal battle over suspension designs?

It still exists in the Pinkbike comment world

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Originally Posted by ticketchecker

Whatever happened in the Trek v. Giant legal battle over suspension designs?

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I thought the trek v. giant suit was just a defective frame thing?

The main suspension related suit that I know of was dave weagle v. trek (weagle has split pivot, and he sued trek because their ABP system is pretty similar). My understanding is that the court dismissed it without anyone being declared victorious (which is essentially a win for trek). So nothing came of it, and both split pivot and ABP continue to exist.

With the new Slash frame going for $4k, it makes me feel like the Hightower frame I paid full retail for was a bargain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toast2266

I thought the trek v. giant suit was just a defective frame thing?

The main suspension related suit that I know of was dave weagle v. trek (weagle has split pivot, and he sued trek because their ABP system is pretty similar). My understanding is that the court dismissed it without anyone being declared victorious (which is essentially a win for trek). So nothing came of it, and both split pivot and ABP continue to exist.

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right, it was DW and split pivot.

And DW and Giant ...

Privateer announced a 141 shorter travel bike:

https://www.privateerbikes.com/produ...-complete-bike