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My RT10 brake assembly looks like the removable FR14 assembly that @macon documents in post #40.Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth operator
I suspect your Crest is the same.
I haven't tried removing mine yet, and I suspect you might need to fabricate a cover plate to control snow packing in there.
I'll bet we're looking at a net 40-50 gram savings, if you add back the weight of some light leashes, like the ATKs or Plums.
... Thom
Easy to remove, 3 torx screws each. Don't have a scale handy though.Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth operator
Attachment 323505
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#GalibierSavesLives
thom thanks for putting this thread together. I recently mounted ATK Crest 10's to a pair of 186 volkl bmt 94s. Loving them so far.
I can contribute a direct a/b test vs notable heavier pin binding - the dynafit radical 2.0 st10 (aka the rotation). Overall impressions - the ATK is like 350g lighter, which is why I mounted it up. I'm frankly surprised by how much of a difference this made - I either feel like I have rockets strapped to my feet on the skinner or just feel less tired than I should.
Skiing - the crest 10 is 90-95% as good as the radical 2 here. Of note - the difference there is only noticeable in what i'd call shit-fuck snow, and that's just the toe being mounted metal to ski rather than metal to PU to sk. I can't tell any difference in soft snow whatsoever. In fact, in soft snow they feel like they have better power transmission at the heel than plum guides or dynafit radical 1's. Maybe it's because they're new, but I feel much less of the ambiguity from the heel piece as I felt from the plum, rad 1, or speed turn. I am personally okay with giving up 5-10% percent in shitty conditions to lose 350g per foot on my skinny / summer ski set up. I have not released yet, though a few janky 'bench tests' did show that they released about when I had hoped they would.
I was big time on the fence about this brake setup originally. I actually really like it. Storing the brakes when you go from skiing to skinning is super straightforward. When you see the mechanism and touch the parts, it looks like it's going to be a super finicky mechanism, but it's not (so far). Just push the red button and pull the brakes up and it catches them. Compared to the godawful radical 2 where you gotta like push down on the brake/rear afd and THEN rotate the heel while keeping it compressed, it is a whole world simpler. Skinning to skiing transitions are pretty smooth too - kick ski up, rip first half of skin past brake, bush the button, turn the heel, then you can rip the rest of the skin and click in.
Riser heights - I find the high riser to be comparable with others, maybe slightly lower? I usually skin with the heel rotated into the flat / high riser position and that works for me.
Biggest surprise for me is that with the lighter set up, my strides are actually longer. Didn't think that was a thing / would happen.
That's interesting about the damping on the Radical 2.0. I always wondered whether the swiveling toe contributed to smoothing out the feel - whether shock absorption from lateral displacement at the heel and rotating about the toe (Dynafit) was as effective as absorption at the toe (alpine binders and Vipec/Tecton).
At the identical weight as Radicals, I've been on Vipecs which are definitely a smooth ride (in comparison with "standard" tech binders).
Yeah, shit-fuck conditions. I ski that stuff fairly slowly in the BC, so the weight savings isn't that much of a trade-off.
... Thom
sruffian, You'd find the Rad 2 heel a doddle to use if you actually operated it correctly!Quote:
Originally Posted by sruffian
You're operating the Rad 2 heel like it is a Rad 1. One of the big improvements of the Rad 2 heel over the Rad 1 is the automatic brake lock up. To go in to skinning mode you leave the brake levers down/deployed and then turn the upper heel unit 90 degrees clockwise. After that there are two methods of locking the brake levers up. Whilst holding the ski and after applying the skin you push the brake pad/AFD fully down with your hand and the brakes will lock up. However most people will want the brakes still deployed whilst stepping in the binding to stabilise the ski so after clicking in at the toe you simply stand on the brake pad/AFD (not stomp!) to fully compress it and the brake will lock up.
ha i had no idea. made it probably 60-80 bc days on those, fuckin with the heel like a retard the whole time. still don't know what a doddle is - something you do at night when you're alone???
agreed on the trade-off Thom. Also really like how the crest heel transmits power. good stuff.
I've got three tours on the RT10 now, and am very impressed so far. Transitions and step in are super smooth, and the brake system works surprisingly well. Time will tell regarding durability, but at this point I'm cautiously optimistic.
7 doddle units of effort are equal to a faff. And 4 faffs are a hassle. You’ll get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sruffian
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...english/doddle = something that is very easy to doQuote:
Originally Posted by sruffian
Agreed, re my Helio 145/180. I think much of the credit goes to ATK refining the same basic binding over many (many) years, instead of bouncing around between different designs.Quote:
Originally Posted by mall walker
I asked Mike, and the binding is already available:Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...cts/core-pro-1
incidentally, being able to lift the race style flap with a ski pole handle (vs the plum 150 which I need to bend over and use my glove to lift, unless I have a whippet) seems to have extended the life of my gloves. again, a small thing, but it’s so nice.
I’ve been on Raider 12 2.0s for 3 years now, They are awesome. I really wish they’d put that awesome heel riser system on one of their super light bindings.
I know there's many different avenues, but where are you guys in the US getting your ATK's bindings?
I used telemark pyreness. Had them at my doorstep in less than a week.
Also came to post I love my FR14. Such a good binding. I put some MTN's on a lighter setup and while I like them they're nowhere near as refined as the FR14.
Cool, so if I want to purchase the new ATK C-Raider 12 for next season, my best bet is telemark pyreness?
If you're getting the ATK version there are probably a bunch of Euro sites to shop from. There weren't many deals on the FR14 when I was shopping so I just went with TP.
Bigger picture though - my thought is if Hagan/BD have a version of the ATK binding you want then from strictly a warranty POV it's better to buy it from them. But you can save money buying the ATK version from a euro website (the Trofeo is $499 from BD, but $230 from TP). Or you have to go to Europe to get the ATK bindings that Hagan/BD don't rebrand (like the FR14 this year).
ditto on t-pQuote:
Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive
TP for me as well.
T-P here as well, although I've bought from snowinn in the past.
... Thom
Trying to decide whether to wait for the new c-raider 12 or grab an FR14. Any opinion on these two?
I wonder whether the carbon base plate would help reduce vibrations on hard snow vs all-aluminum?
Anyone have experience with the FR14? I assume the toe piece lateral release is stiffer than the new 12 binding. Anyone find it too stiff to safely release? I’m 200lbs 6’.
Also is the toe piece spring design similar to the Raider (4springs) but fully enclosed ?
Just seems you get a plastic toe plate vs metal.Quote:
Originally Posted by KM14
Up to you. I think the actual toe design is identical. The FR14 and R12 don’t have regular springs.
Mounted my FR14's last week and got about 5 mellow tours in so far (still allowed here in Sweden). Loving how they perform on the up coming from Ions and Shifts most recently. The all metal toe-piece feels bomber and oozes of quality in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by KM14
Unsure if the carbon infused plastic will help in reducing vibrations, dont think it will be a big noticable difference actually. I really like the fr14 and will probably get another pair next season if nothing happens with them during spring so highly recommended!
Would one of you ATK binding experts mind schooling me on the BD Helio equivalents? I was thinking about getting a pair of Helio 110s for someone as a gift. The skier is 5’ 5” and 125lbs and looking to significantly lighten her touring setup. Thoughts? Anyone have experience with this binding in particular?
Thanks in advance.
the 110 is the world cup iirc, it's more a race binding than a touring binding (I have a friend who races a lot and has broken one, which is pretty rare for ATKs). the 145 is the way to go for touring imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGamms
Thanks MW!! Care to expand at all? Is the main concern that the 110 is just less durable than the 145? She doesn’t need anything higher than a RV of 8, so that part is a non-issue.
Also, does the 110 even have an option for ski crampons?
See the chart I put up in post #1.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGamms
The answer depends on whether she wants to be able to adjust the lateral release value.
... Thom
that is my understanding, weight and subsequently durability. you can get the 145 in a 6, 8 or 10 cheap on t-p fwiwQuote:
Originally Posted by DGamms
FYI BD Helio 180's (aka ATK Trofeo Plus) are $287 on backcountry.com...basically the same price as T-P
jfc that is cheapQuote:
Originally Posted by Dshack89
Anybody have a direct comparison with the BD branded version in regard to heel rotation effort? I know they're the same binding, but this is the primary complaint I'm seeing with the Helio 180. Same priced shipped right now for either version.Quote:
Originally Posted by mall walker
C-Raider 12 intriguing
Yup. But I want to see some other people beat the shit out of that front Carbon base plate before I buy a pair. So for 2022 perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by margotron
Where are you seeing this version? [edit]Never mind ... I found this video ...[edit/]Quote:
Originally Posted by margotron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPT0jWzazqE
I can't believe they're any different apart from the anodized color. At the same price, why not just go with BD for the added warranty support and not look back?Quote:
Originally Posted by North
Regarding spinning them, I've been musing about making a simple tool - a combined binding spinner and skin scraper. I set my Helio 200s to about 7.5 lateral and it's a bit of a challenge to rotate them.
My idea is a simple, piece of 1/8" x 2.0" aluminum stock, bent into an "L" shape with the short side being about 5/8" long. Drill two holes that mate with the pins and voila! The long side (say 3" and used for leverage) can be used to de-glop skins. Maybe drill a hole at the end of the long side to run some 2mm cord through.
... Thom
fwiw the 180s don’t have adjustable anything release and they’re fine to rotate (I run the “10” RV so theoretically the stiffest offering for that particular model). maybe it’s just my pair but if you think those rotate tough you haven’t skied a plum. and I’m 5’10” / 145lbs so not exactly a big muscle man.
no clue on the adjustable lateral RV ones though.
Ya price + warranty support was too good to pass up. Sounds like a non-issue anyway.
I'm probably a moron, but is there any difference between the R12 and the Raider 12 2.0 (and the R14 - Freeraider 14 2.0) other than the rear/front brakes? Can you use the freeride spacer with the rear brakes? Any other differences? Their naming scheme doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
This year's Raider/Freeraider have the brake at the toe. The R12/FR14 have it at the rear. Different toe piece design between the siblings, and I believe the Freeride spacers are different as well - to accommodate the different heel pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrgha
Follow the link to the ATK site in post #1.
The chart in that post will likely help you suss out the naming schenes - at least a bit.
... Thom
Thank you. It's still not clear to me why you would pick one over the other. Do they have any advantages/disadvantages over each other?Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Post #2 in this thread. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
The main functional difference is that the Raider 12/14 2.0s have brakes that are always active -> you step out, they engange, vs R12/14s that are either fully locked or active. The toes are also different, where the R12/14 toes can be adjusted wrt clamping force. The Freeride spacers are also completely different between the two designs. On R12/14s the spacer is placed around the brake stomp pad and mounted as a part of the binding. On FR12/14s the Freeride Spacers is bolted on the bindng after it has been mounted, then adjusted for height.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrgha
So the choice really boils down to if you want fully active brakes at all times or not, then which you can get cheaper. I doubt there is much of a difference in ride feel - the heel tower is the same between the two designs (I think). I have not used them back to back.