Appalachian Trail murder and attack, too close for comfort

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Originally Posted by iceman

You're never gonna hike the trail. But if they come for your Doritos you're ready.

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Flamin' hot cheetos, bro..

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Originally Posted by mooseknuckles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXLHZ5Uee3o

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lol

They should've had a hatchet or knife.

Splitting someones head open or stabbing them repeatedly is so much easier than shooting someone. Just ask Kai.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckfBGdZoR_0

^^^Kai just got convicted of murder a couple weeks ago (not for the event in the video).

https://nypost.com/2019/04/24/kai-th...torneys-death/

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Redhawk Alaskan is the only choice.

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Really Bobby? guess you'd buy your daughter a Hellcat for her 16th birthday too!

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OP Sorry your kid had to deal with this and glad nothing more happened to her. Too close for comfort indeed.

Also too bad this thread had to degenerate into a rah, rah for guns. Fuck guns.

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x2

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

My wife isn't comfortable with the responsibility of carrying a fucking deadly weapon in the woods, nor does she want to go through the training to have the mindset and ability to use it and potentially KILL another human. So she carries bear spray.

Bear spray is a very debilitating tool. The people who I know who have accidentally been sprayed (One was just being dumb, the other had the canister left in a hot truck glove box and it discharged due to being over pressure.) They reported full debilitation with temporary lost vision, smell and hearing due to the intense pain and nervous system overload. It took them several hours to partially recover. I have the feeling Bear Spray would buy a person time to get the police.

I'm not arguing against carrying in the backcountry. I personally carry a handgun in the backcountry. But I'm against the mindset that the act of carrying a gun makes a person an instant demi-god super hero clint eastwood. The average person can't just pick it up and defend yourself. You need training. S-I-J's daughter does not need a Glock overnighted to her. While I would encourage her to at least THINK about a self defense plan while hiking solo on the AT, what defensive tools she carries come down to what she personally wants to be responsible with. I would encourage S-I-J to speak with his daughter and run through potential scenarios that she might encounter and discuss what she might do in those scenarios. (If he hasn't already.)

Reality is, the woods are pretty safe and bad stuff that happens is a major outlier, not a present danger unless you're in an area that has a history of crime (meth areas, border areas, cartel grows, etc.) That isn't really the AT. So that leaves you with planning for these sort of very random, very rare but also potentially very devastating events, which don't carry an easy answer or solution.

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Very well said. Another point - if you shoot and kill a person out in the woods, with no witnesses, you better have a whole bunch of proof that it was in self defense because you're probably going to be investigated for homicide.

A little pepper spray will spice up those Doritos nicely.

It is horrible your daughter had to experience this. I hope she can meet up with hikers she is comfortable with and have a great experience.

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Originally Posted by Svengali

Really Bobby?

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My real response was a taser. Pepper spray can fly all over.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Unfortunately there are people that need to be killed in this world. Machete guy is one of them.

Its naive to think that guns are not a necessary evil in our society. Cops need guns. OPs daughter definitely needed a gun. As did the guy who was chopped up in front of his wife.

So go take your altruistic bullshit and pat yourself on the back. No one is coming to save you.

Im not sure any of you can imagine the horror that took place. But yeah... Guns suck. Lol.

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If machete guy is coming for you, machete a-waving, and you have a gun in your hands pointed at him, then by all means fire. And be glad that you had the gun.

But that statement I just made doesn't really answer the question of whether you'd be better off having the gun with you on the trail, or "need" a gun with you. I realize that for those who like guns, they think it does, but the cold reality is that it doesn't. Which is not to say that you shouldn't have a gun on the trail, either. It's just that the example of machete guy doesn't answer the question.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Unfortunately there are people that need to be killed in this world. Machete guy is one of them.

Its naive to think that guns are not a necessary evil in our society. Cops need guns. OPs daughter definitely needed a gun. As did the guy who was chopped up in front of his wife.

So go take your altruistic bullshit and pat yourself on the back. No one is coming to save you.

Im not sure any of you can imagine the horror that took place. But yeah... Guns suck. Lol.

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A lotta people forget the world/nature is inherently violent,you come in violently(birth)you go out violently(stroke,MI,trauma etc). Gotta realize you're the boss of your own protection detail. No one else is obliged to protect you.

Live near this area. This isn't the first wacko that has appeared on the AT in this part of the world.

Say what you want, but if you are comfortable, carry concealed and keep your mouth shut. If not, make sure you have some means to protect yourself.

The federal judge handing the case is my former supervising attorney. He has ordered the guy for a psych eval. A little too late unfortunately. Frankly, I was shocked that the guy managed to get out of jail in Unicoi County on the first LE encounter.

The lady hacked up by machete guy definitely needed a gun at that moment, but the odds of that are so infinitesimally low to be in that situation I find it hard to say the average person would need a gun to go for a hike on the AT per se. Basically comes down to what makes you feel comfortable.

Also, as someone who's done a couple hundred miles of the AT (almost exclusively in the NE part) I remember meeting a few characters that seemed off, running away from something. I distinctly remember a guy drinking a bit to much at a shelter and letting it slip he was running from a child support payments and needed to figure out how to get out West and do the Pacific Crest. These types certainly weren't the majority, or even a sizable minority, but I personally haven't encountered basically anything like it since, nor did I before.

I mean, its not like the whole AT culture isn't unfortunately tailor made for certain types to disappear. They all have nicknames/aliai, show up every couple weeks at a random post office or store to stock up on supplies, are constantly moving.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Pepper spray can fly all over.

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that's the point. it's better for general purposes, not just fantasy. because fact is you are far more likely to encounter a bear, other predator, or nasty dog on the trail than some human asshole with a machete.

S-I-J, glad your daughter is ok. Close one man.
Some of the replies here are pure humor. TGR never seems to disappoint in that regard.

I have a buddy that packed heat on the AT. Said there's a lot of crazy people on the AT. Guessing that as long as you are not brandishing it, no one is going to bother you about it.

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I really hope this wasn’t my friend.. fuck. they were right around this area

haven’t heard back from her today yet

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Originally Posted by thebirdhunter

Wrong again my little maggot wife stalking friend.

https://www.nps.gov/shen/learn/manag...arm_policy.htm




I would just do what Spook would do, curl up in the fetal position and cry for my wife to come save me.


and get it right, cool hand luke was a petty thief not a gun toting shootem up shooter. now go take a lap.

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uh huh. experience sez otherwise, birdbrain.

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Originally Posted by east or bust

I really hope this wasn’t my friend.. fuck. they were right around this area

haven’t heard back from her today yet

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Well that would suck, keep us posted please.

The person murdered is named Ronald Sanchez, but the other people haven't been identified. https://www.boston.com/news/national...tim-identified

Odds matter fellas. Not just the individual circumstance. The chance of something happening is pretty low.

Since 1974, 13 people have been murdered on the AT. (seems like about a third of them with guns, for what it's worth.) 2-3 million folks hike part of it every year. At an average of 2 mil per year (just to estimate), that's 90,000,000 people on the trail and 13 deaths. Approximately a 1 in 7 million chance you'll be killed on the trail if you hiked it in the last 45 years.

I hope nothing happens to anyone we know or anyone on this board or any of us. But these odds are small. According to this dude Ethan Siegel who ran the numbers and published an article in Forbes, if you are a surfer in Hawaii, you have a 1 in 200,000 chance of being bitten by a tiger shark in any given year. You have a 1 in 232,000 of being injured by a grizzly in Yellowstone per day if you are in the backcountry.

Normalizing for the number of days people spend on the AT, rather than just the number of unique visitors, if the average AT hiker spends 3 days on the trail (just a guess), then there is a 1 in 21,000,000 chance you'll get killed by murder per day on the AT, and a 1 in 232,000 chance of getting injured by a grizzly per day in the Yellowstone backcountry.

So I think I'll still pay more attention to traditional wildlife than to two legged wildlife.

If you’re going to be doing math word problems, you’re going to need to show your work.

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Originally Posted by beece

Odds matter fellas. Not just the individual circumstance. The chance of something happening is pretty low.

Since 1974, 13 people have been murdered on the AT. (seems like about a third of them with guns, for what it's worth.) 2-3 million folks hike part of it every year. At an average of 2 mil per year (just to estimate), that's 90,000,000 people on the trail and 13 deaths. Approximately a 1 in 7 million chance you'll be killed on the trail if you hiked it in the last 45 years.

I hope nothing happens to anyone we know or anyone on this board or any of us. But these odds are small. According to this dude Ethan Siegel who ran the numbers and published an article in Forbes, if you are a surfer in Hawaii, you have a 1 in 200,000 chance of being bitten by a tiger shark in any given year. You have a 1 in 232,000 of being injured by a grizzly in Yellowstone per day if you are in the backcountry.

Normalizing for the number of days people spend on the AT, rather than just the number of unique visitors, if the average AT hiker spends 3 days on the trail (just a guess), then there is a 1 in 21,000,000 chance you'll get killed by murder per day on the AT, and a 1 in 232,000 chance of getting injured by a grizzly per day in the Yellowstone backcountry.

So I think I'll still pay more attention to traditional wildlife than to two legged wildlife.

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I'm planning a surf trip. Do they make a waterproof ar15?

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dang SIJ that is terrifying! Hope she is holding up ok
what a crazy bummer of a situation

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Originally Posted by m2711c

If you’re going to be doing math word problems, you’re going to need to show your work.

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Attachment 282545

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Originally Posted by b-bear

dang SIJ that is terrifying! Hope she is holding up ok
what a crazy bummer of a situation

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Yeah, I should also say (math aside) that it's terrible that she had to have this experience. Really sorry for her and you. And for the victims.

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Originally Posted by beece

Odds matter fellas. Not just the individual circumstance. The chance of something happening is pretty low.

Since 1974, 13 people have been murdered on the AT. (seems like about a third of them with guns, for what it's worth.) 2-3 million folks hike part of it every year. At an average of 2 mil per year (just to estimate), that's 90,000,000 people on the trail and 13 deaths. Approximately a 1 in 7 million chance you'll be killed on the trail if you hiked it in the last 45 years.

I hope nothing happens to anyone we know or anyone on this board or any of us. But these odds are small. According to this dude Ethan Siegel who ran the numbers and published an article in Forbes, if you are a surfer in Hawaii, you have a 1 in 200,000 chance of being bitten by a tiger shark in any given year. You have a 1 in 232,000 of being injured by a grizzly in Yellowstone per day if you are in the backcountry.

Normalizing for the number of days people spend on the AT, rather than just the number of unique visitors, if the average AT hiker spends 3 days on the trail (just a guess), then there is a 1 in 21,000,000 chance you'll get killed by murder per day on the AT, and a 1 in 232,000 chance of getting injured by a grizzly per day in the Yellowstone backcountry.

So I think I'll still pay more attention to traditional wildlife than to two legged wildlife.

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Can you explain this math to all the people who read stories of crime on nextdoor and freak out?

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Originally Posted by Danno

Can you explain this math to all the people who read stories of crime on nextdoor and freak out?

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Sure:

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Originally Posted by beece

murdered

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I got dropped from the A group on last weeks gravel ride, first hard ride of the year and I got smoked on a long climb. Waited for the B group, who were being led by a fat chick on a commuter ebike, it was surreal watching her ride me off her wheel. Didn’t bother me at all, I had to laugh actually, looked like fun.

Wrong thread, how did that just happen? This isn’t the ebike thread?

A lot of heat has come down on the hikers who declined to press charges. The couple who helped my daughter that night we’re among those who declined to press charges.

My daughter said the general feeling was that you’d have to put your trip-of-a-lifetime on hold hanging around to testify against a homeless drifter. Just move on and forget it.

I guess it’s like in the Seattle thread, what good Is a ticket/slap on the wrist to homeless guy who craps on your front steps? I think people just wanted to move on.

Some AT.org people got him a bus ticket, but he never got on.

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Originally Posted by iceman

Well that would suck, keep us posted please.

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Ok - whew, just saw the names released and can confirm it was not them. Still incredibly sad, and will probably fuck up the zen on the trail a good deal.

My friend, a past lady friend of mine, hit the 500 mile mark about a week ago, and not knowing their daily pace that should put them right around where this happened. Was genuinely worried there for a while. I wonder if they got tied up in this shit show.

First off, I'm glad your daughter is OK. I literally just got off a plane where I watched Wild for the second time and spent much of the time wondering if my daughter will ever be ballsy enough to do something like that solo. Weird.

T&Ps.

shouldn't that ^^ read " have ovaries large enough to do something like that solo "

maybe reality is they don't wana go anywhere their i-phone isnt gona work ?

in any case STATISTICALLY speaking is the Appalachian trail really any more or less dangerous than going to burger king or the library or anywhere else in America?

No, random shit happens.

It's not a tragedy, it's regular American life light.

It's probably the safest place you could be. But who cares?

Americans react irrationally. I'm sorry about the proximity to a whacko for the OP, but that could happen anywhere to anyone. This is a subtlety violent country. Get used to it.

Choose your weapon. For me, it has always been voice, intelligence, then force. Be that with a tool or not.

It's life. And it's way safer here, than most anywhere in the world.

SIJ this all hits too close to home. My wife told me about the incident right before I left for work the other night. So scary that you're daughter was involved. A promising young gal up here was randomly shot by a 9 mm gun minding her own business with friends driving down the god damn highway recently through a wooded area...same road I drive at the same time she was killed and I had noticed some stuff in that area recently that I contacted authorities about in hopes it helps them connect dots if there is any. I have friends that knew her and I know you. The sad part is all the violence, so much of it random, happening around us, and to people we know and love personally. And then everybody screaming more guns. Fuck I own guns and I backpack and I drive but I have zero desire to go through life carrying around a heavy piece of killing machine and really a crazy person can kill you anywhere anytime anyway. Super cool that your girl is doing the AT. Always a backburner dream of mine. Peace and thanks for sharing and I'll put in a good word for bear spray as my conceal and carry choice - mistakes are not fatal.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Real gangsters ain't got time for laws son.

https://media.giphy.com/media/v3FWo9quhqDok/giphy.gif

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That is terrible to hear about the girl who was randomly shot while driving down the highway. And while the machete murder is equally awful, it's the random gun violence that is much, much more common. It won't stop though because guns help people feel tough (see above).

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Originally Posted by uglymoney

SIJ this all hits too close to home. My wife told me about the incident right before I left for work the other night. So scary that you're daughter was involved. A promising young gal up here was randomly shot by a 9 mm gun minding her own business with friends driving down the god damn highway recently through a wooded area...same road I drive at the same time she was killed and I had noticed some stuff in that area recently that I contacted authorities about in hopes it helps them connect dots if there is any. I have friends that knew her and I know you. The sad part is all the violence, so much of it random, happening around us, and to people we know and love personally. And then everybody screaming more guns. Fuck I own guns and I backpack and I drive but I have zero desire to go through life carrying around a heavy piece of killing machine and really a crazy person can kill you anywhere anytime anyway.

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And then they would be a crazy person with a gun!

Good guy shoots himself again.

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

No, random shit happens.

It's not a tragedy, it's regular American life light.

It's probably the safest place you could be. But who cares?

Americans react irrationally. I'm sorry about the proximity to a whacko for the OP, but that could happen anywhere to anyone. This is a subtlety violent country. Get used to it.

Choose your weapon. For me, it has always been voice, intelligence, then force. Be that with a tool or not.

It's life. And it's way safer here, than most anywhere in the world.

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subtlety violent? your weaponized intelligence?

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Originally Posted by dunfree

that's the point. it's better for general purposes, not just fantasy. because fact is you are far more likely to encounter a bear, other predator, or nasty dog on the trail than some human asshole with a machete.

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It's awesome when it flies back in your face.

This thread is about some asshole chopping people up with a machete by the way...

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Originally Posted by tbssux

And while the machete murder is equally awful, it's the random gun violence that is much, much more common.

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That's some ground breaking shit right there bro... Mad respect. Namaste.

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Originally Posted by grinch

I'm planning a surf trip. Do they make a waterproof ar15?

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AK-47