Do what you love...or work so you can afford life?

I really do love what I do, like really truly love it. Using math and physics to solve real-world problems has brought me more deep satisfaction than just about anything else, and it has since I was a kid (not that I really understood that much math as a kid). But the more time I spend away from skiing, the more I know I want skiing to be a major part of my life because it brings me so much joy. And that's really the balance, I think: deep, long-term satisfaction vs immediate pleasure/joy. I don't think I personally could have a satisfying life overall if I focused solely on the joy aspect. And the flip side is that life kinda sucks if you only focus on long-term goals.

A big problem for me is that it's really hard to find corporate tech jobs doing something cool, while also working 35-40 hours a week AND getting reasonable vacation (6-8+ weeks a year). I'd be happy to take a job making proportionally less money. Like, if you're willing to pay $120k/year for 60 hours/week with 3 weeks of vacation for hard-to-fill roll, why can't I take $60k/year to work 40 hours a week and get 6 weeks of vacation. You're paying me half as much, but I'm definitely more than half as productive than if I was working 60+ hours a week. It's a win all around. Somehow, it's still near impossible to find.

But the bottom line is that any job is going to have periods where it sucks. Even a great job can turn awful if you get a new boss, customer, client, management, etc. A key, at least in my mind, is creating enough passive income and smart financial decisions that you don't really ever *need* to keep any specific job.

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Our company no longer keeps track of vacation. I'm still trying to figure out if I can pull off actually *taking* 6 weeks... :cool:

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The "unlimited" or "untracked" vacation is marketed to employees as a bonus to them, but it really isn't. Most people still end up taking 2-3 weeks (and in many places, if you dramatically exceed that they would shit can you) and when you leave, they have no vacation time obligation owed to you. My last job had "unlimited" vacation time, but I feel much freer and much less guilt when I take a day off at my current gig, where I have a set amount of vacation time (albeit a relatively generous amount).

I've actually finally reached the point in my life where my limiting factor is not vacation time but money and family/work/life obligations.

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Originally Posted by Danno

The "unlimited" or "untracked" vacation is marketed to employees as a bonus to them, but it really isn't. Most people still end up taking 2-3 weeks (and in many places, if you dramatically exceed that they would shit can you) and when you leave, they have no vacation time obligation owed to you. My last job had "unlimited" vacation time, but I feel much freer and much less guilt when I take a day off at my current gig, where I have a set amount of vacation time (albeit a relatively generous amount).

I've actually finally reached the point in my life where my limiting factor is not vacation time but money and family/work/life obligations.

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I have unlimited PTO. This nailed it. They don't pay out PTO when you quit. Also work in commercial construction in Seattle. Good luck taking 3+ weeks off in this industry.
Nice to not feel bad if I take a pow day off, but the likelihood with how busy you are on a daily basis kills that idea quick.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Danno

The "unlimited" or "untracked" vacation is marketed to employees as a bonus to them, but it really isn't. Most people still end up taking 2-3 weeks (and in many places, if you dramatically exceed that they would shit can you) and when you leave, they have no vacation time obligation owed to you.

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Yeah - it's definitely a move to get a liability off the books for the corp. And I wouldn't argue the point that people generally take a "normal" 2-3 weeks... seems to be true.

I just checked, and I took just shy of 5 weeks in '18. I'm gonna shoot for 6 weeks next year. :cool:

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My last job had "unlimited" vacation time, but I feel much freer and much less guilt when I take a day off at my current gig, where I have a set amount of vacation time (albeit a relatively generous amount).

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Heh - you Catholic or something? :D

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Originally Posted by glademaster

On that note, I'm leaving early, because life is too fucking short to squander on anyone else.

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"Life is too short to do the work the pay me for"

I had 2 different jobs that had "unlimited" vacation. 2 weeks was really the acceptable amount. But I was very good at working on "non-declared" vacations, because I never needed to be at an office, so answering calls was easy, and catching up w/ emails in the evening, morning, and doing quick replies during the day worked fine. I was always traveling anyway, so what did they know?

People always asked me if / what I liked about the end-loser HW tech thing too which I would reply " this thing is almost fixed so I am leaving in < 15 minutes ... You gotta stay "

I didn't hate the 30 yar road trip, sometimes it drove me crazy but was seldom bore ing and the cradle-to-grave thing has been pretty good

The answer to this all likes in the phrase "do what YOU love". If you're single with no kids there is likely little keeping you from finding enough work near "what you love". If that's skiing, find a fairly good full time job and add a part time job at the ski hill. If you're married with or without kids then "what YOU love" is probably somewhat at odds with what the other family members love. For the latter, sacrifices and trade offs must be made unless you want to tear that family apart and return to single life with way more complications added. I didn't ski at all for the first 6 years of being married. I don't regret that at all. My kids are now in high school. Both can ski, but only one really loves it. When the nest empties, I'll take some longer trips, but just day trips and weekenders for now. What's most important to me is providing the resources so that ALL family members get to do some of what THEY love. That's kind of become "what I love". The fact that this involves a couple trips to the ski mountain every season is nice but not necessary.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I had 2 different jobs that had "unlimited" vacation. 2 weeks was really the acceptable amount. But I was very good at working on "non-declared" vacations, because I never needed to be at an office, so answering calls was easy, and catching up w/ emails in the evening, morning, and doing quick replies during the day worked fine. I was always traveling anyway, so what did they know?

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This is my approach. Technically I have allotted vacation time, but I work remote anyway and the founder of our company knows I take full advantage. His only comment on the subject was to be careful with social media so none of my co-workers see me skiing pow on a Wednesday morning and I'm not listed on the PTO calendar. Always hitting my numbers helps, of course.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I had 2 different jobs that had "unlimited" vacation. 2 weeks was really the acceptable amount.

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Sounds like management sucked?

Because, IMNSHO, companies that want all that liability wiped off their books should be HAPPY to have employees take 4 weeks off per year.

Anything less is uncivilized.

:D

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

This is my approach. Technically I have allotted vacation time, but I work remote anyway and the founder of our company knows I take full advantage. His only comment on the subject was to be careful with social media so none of my co-workers see me skiing pow on a Wednesday morning and I'm not listed on the PTO calendar. Always hitting my numbers helps, of course.

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From 2010 through 2017 I was 100% remote with flexible hours since I was east coast and my upper management was/is west coast. I could, and sometimes did work 4 hours east coast morning 8-noon then west coast afternoon from 4-8 when traveling with the family on vacation or whatever. Entire company pulled the plug on the remote working 100% option for most employees last year, an industry wide trend because productivity dropped due to us doing the bare minimum then personal things on company time. I'm now employed by a different company doing a similar job with the same client, but back to more liberal remote work from home policy. I don't expect it to last though. The work from home more often than not party is ending most places.

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

The work from home more often than not party is ending most places.

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I'm not so sure about that. The key is you have to deliver and then no questions are asked. I mean, it's a trade off for sure - I'm off a lot but I'm also on a lot. Some shit hit the fan and I found myself working for 4 hours on Thanksgiving last month. But whatever, I'll take it.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

I'm not so sure about that. The key is you have to deliver and then no questions are asked.

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This. If you ain't gettin' shit done, it's probably not going to work well. If you are... WGAF where you're working from?

Remote "problems" are generally management issues, not remote-working issues.

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

This. If you ain't gettin' shit done, it's probably not going to work well. If you are... WGAF where you're working from?

Remote "problems" are generally management issues, not remote-working issues.

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They're figuring out that people can actually getting shit done with a fair amount of bandwidth leftover. The work smarter, not longer philosophy is great, but when management and company directors figure out that what they're paying people expecting it to be 40 hours of work a week really only takes them 25 hours in average.. which was actually even less when I got my last gig down.. then they want to add to your workload if they can see you're not needing that full 40 hours to do what was assigned. Face it. We have it pretty damned good. Our upper management could assign us a lot more. Ya, there are crazy times when some emergency weekend or holiday work is required, but they don't give a fuck about that either. If they really knew how much down time I had the past 9 years they'd be shocked. Heck, even as is I took our operation from a 5 person team down to a two person team with me doing most of the heavy lifting and I STILL had 3-4 hours a day, some full days, where I had NOTHING needed but answering a few questions about stuff I delivered early. I delivered reports supporting all account managers and top level goal data for segment directors and area VPs for ALL of North and South America, 6 billion dollars in business.. and still had half the work week to just piddle around and do chores or run errands. That's getting shit done, big shit, optimizing and automating. Working smarter, not longer. Still, as they realized we were way more efficient than they thought, they called us all back in to the office and restructured everything, laying off tons of people..

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

They're figuring out that people can actually getting shit done with a fair amount of bandwidth leftover. The work smarter, not longer philosophy is great, but when management and company directors figure out that what they're paying people expecting it to be 40 hours of work a week really only takes them 25 hours in average.. which was actually even less when I got my last gig down.. then they want to add to your workload if they can see you're not needing that full 40 hours to do what was assigned. Face it. We have it pretty damned good. Our upper management could assign us a lot more. Ya, there are crazy times when some emergency weekend or holiday work is required, but they don't give a fuck about that either. If they really knew how much down time I had the past 9 years they'd be shocked. Heck, even as is I took our operation from a 5 person team down to a two person team with me doing most of the heavy lifting and I STILL had 3-4 hours a day, some full days, where I had NOTHING needed but answering a few questions about stuff I delivered early. I delivered reports supporting all account managers and top level goal data for segment directors and area VPs for ALL of North and South America, 6 billion dollars in business.. and still had half the work week to just piddle around and do chores or run errands. That's getting shit done, big shit, optimizing and automating. Working smarter, not longer. Still, as they realized we were way more efficient than they thought, they called us all back in to the office and restructured everything, laying off tons of people..

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Like I said - it's a management/personnel issue... not a remote-work issue. :D

I take pride in my work, but I don't define my life by it. I'm not passionate about my job, but the paychecks and ample time off make it all worthwhile.

I changed careers 5 years ago from something that was a passion and hobby. I wouldn't recommend making your passion the thing that puts food on your table.

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Originally Posted by wicked_sick

I take pride in my work, but I don't define my life by it. I'm not passionate about my job, but the paychecks and ample time off make it all worthwhile.

I changed careers 5 years ago from something that was a passion and hobby. I wouldn't recommend making your passion the thing that puts food on your table.

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Sounds exactly like where Im at wicked. Right now I am fortunate to have a great job with terriffic people and unlimited PTO. It is a situation I am grateful for and I think I should probably shut down my inner critic and roll with it for a few years and re-evaluate then. As a "kid" ( late 20s early 30s individual with terminal teenage syndrome) I thought persuing the life of a industry ski bum was my destiny and my passion. It was great for a few years when I was single, but once I achieved that status I was married with a kid on the way. I realized that when I was "working" creating video I was thinking of skiing. If I was filming or editing skiing, I still wasnt really enjoying the travel and being away from my family, even though I was part of the outdoor project. On the rare occassion I was skiing I felt guilty about not earning my share of the household income.

I think my knee jerk reaction for starting this thread originated from a moment when I was doubting myself and career based on the past and my expectations of what my life "should" be like. In reality, opportunities come from unexpected places and life and the work that you do can change and will change if you let it evolve and are open to new opportunities. I was fortunate enough to have chased "the dream" for a very long time and now I get to chase down trips I could never afford, like the Japan trip I leave for next week. I also get to chase my 9 year old around through the woods on skis and watch him develop his passion for sliding around on snow. Thank you to everyone for the lively and insighful discussion.