I love summer tires.
In the summer.
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I love summer tires.
In the summer.
exactly X 2
Kuhmo AT51 have the 3PMSF (3 peak mountain snowflake) and not good at all in the ice and mediocre in the snow. KO2s have 3PMSF are only slightly less shit (and don't listen to KO2 true believers who don't drive snows). Goodyear Wrangler SAs have the 3PMSF and are actually impressively good for a non-snow-tire, but no match for blizzak, particularly if there is ice or its cold.
Real snow tires have super soft rubber compound and tons of sipping! Very good ones have either special compounds like blizzak, Michelin and Nokian studless that add extra ice grip over sipping that matches studs, or they have studs.
Can we get a list of recommended snow tires by price (maybe one cheap, average, high). I have driven Cooper AT3s all over North America but yeah, I slide around.
Other tips: sand bags over wheels really does make a difference.
Kk well disagree but not surprised since subies are the most popular rigs around here
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I would avoid the mystery cheapo imported brands like, say, saliun, ling long, triangle, etc, but aside from that just having ANY snow tire is going to be better than not. Tirerack and discount tire are probably the best online sources. I've been happy with the firestone down the street for a few things although my own tires came from tirerack's wholesale side.
The thing I have noticed reading the tire tests is that while they will declare some specific tire "the best," when you look at the actual testing numbers like at the end of the car and driver article the differences are pretty small. Yet someone's going to see that and think that oh, Blizzaks are garbage now I need to buy Hakkas. But the stopping distance was the same on snow and less than 2ft different on ice and the nokians are significantly more expensive.
I went with general altimax arctics because they were cheap, but well reviewed and general is a brand of continental and they're made in germany. It's "older tech," studdable (but I don't have studs) and I think shares a mold with a version of the i-pike and an older nokian. I've driven them back to back against blizzak ws80s, and there are some slight differences. Blizzak is better on smoother, slicker surfaces like that really hard packed snow you get on highways and ice. I've been in at least one situation where I wished for either blizzaks or studs, but made it where I was going without much issue. Have never seen so many cars and trucks in the ditches. In deeper, looser snow and slush I'd give the generals an advantage because of the bigger tread blocks and more open area.
I think that translates well to the difference with an all season or light truck tire too. On ice the rubber compound (and siping) are most important, in snow the tread pattern and depth play a bigger role. It's also possible to add siping to your all seasons or truck tires which will make a difference because of those extra edges and more flex in the tread.
I go through cars like coffee...I usually keep on the M&S that came with the car for a little while and then put on winter tires for the SUVs. For ages, I would do dedicated Summer tires from July - early November. On a big SUV, they really do make a difference is stability and handling. During winter/Spring, with three kids in the back of the car, I personally feel like its worth the time and expense for dedicated winter tires to know you have the best scenario when driving through a blizzard. However, it seems lately that a lot of the main tire shop franchises will not mount used tires...new ones, yes. I've had to go to the more mom & pop places to get it done. Buying an extra set of dedicated 21-22" SUV rims is an option but good quality ones can really set you back. The last couple sets of tires, I've just ran the winter tires through the summer and then reloaded with a new set in early November.
QFT. Blizzaks work great, but I switched to Dunlop winters last season and cannot tell the difference between them, even though the Blizzaks had the title of "best winter tire". Before that my only exposure to the Dunlop brand name had been through golf.
YMMV, but definitely dig deeper into the tests/numbers when comparing. Helps to educate for future purchases.
Probably important to note that the M+S designation on a tire is purely based on the geometry of the tread; it has nothing to do with any real testing of a tire's capability on snow and ice. The "snowflake in mountain" designation is for real winter tires. These have actually been tested for tire traction in snow.
In my experience with my Subaru, I have used all season M+S tires that are supposed to be pretty decent in snow (Goodyear Tripletread, Michelin Defender). With real snow tires, even the cheapest brand, the difference is night and day, not even close. The different rubber compound is probably what makes the most difference.
I find it interesting that people balk at the cost of extra winter tires when the cost to fix even the tiniest dent is more expensive than the priciest set of winter tires.
We have Nokian Hakka 8s with studs (lots and lots of studs) on our AWD and they are amazing. The road to Apex climbs from 1200 feet to 5000 feet in 32 km. Much of the elevation gain is a series of hairpin switchbacks which means slowing right down, turning hard and then accelerating up a steep, slippery road. This is an excellent test because momentum is not an option. The 8's have now been superseded by Hakka 9s.
Very few people ever select a tire meaningfully different than their OEM tires. On my MINI, I ran a dedicated summer tire and a dedicated winter tire, but mostly because I hated the OEM AS run-flats so much that I spent some real time researching my options.
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Can we get some rad tire quiver pics in here?
I find it interesting that people use nice, expensive cars as their mountain vehicles. Personally, i prefer driving my 15yr old 4runner with a cracked windshield and multiple nicks and dents on snowy mtn roads. If i stuff it into a snowbank, have another car give me a hard love tap, or catch a nice rock kicked up by a semi-truck, my car is meaningfully no worse for wear. Id be very gunshy of driving a nice $50k+ SUV or truck in winter conditions with all the other cars sliding around out there.
Yup.
Keep a 4x4 manual SUV winter beater with upsized studded Hakkapeliittas and a ski box for those exact reasons.
I don't understand people who buy $80,000 4x4 road princesses.
Well, I'm glad my car is not in that group then. I hate driving a POS.
finally someone ^^who gets " it " that a trip to the ditch could cost you more than $$$$
can you get plain 21-22" steel rims ? IME tire swaps twice a year adds up so I always buy extra rims for my snows and they pay for themselves on the $$ saved for tire swaps in < 3 years. When i get rid of the car I sell the wheels separately or trade them back to the tire dealer for the next set of snow tires on the new car and If i mount my snows on dedicated rims my tire dealer will swap them for free and retork the wheel nuts in 100kms, same dealer will store the wheels for me but it costs extra
but it sounds like some people can't afford nice cars or snow tires
Also, just because your car comes with 20-21" wheels or whatever doesn't mean your winter set need to be that big. Generally you can size down an inch or two (or more), depends on the brakes. Basically nothing comes with brakes so big you need a 20" wheel, even some sports cars that come with 20s. Going to a tire for a smaller rim is generally cheaper plus the extra sidewall height adds some compliance, which can be nice on rougher surfaces you'll see in the winter.
Quick example, say you've got a GMC yukon with 22s. tire size is 285-45/22. A blizzak DM in that size costs $292.
Or, you could pick up some 18" wheels, either used OEM from some other GMC or steelies or whatever as part of a package on tire rack. That same blizzak in 265/65-18, which is the same overall diameter, only costs $205.
people are going deep into wheel and even car quivers. TGR forumz bringing it
Don't forget the TPMS sensor change fee. Actually spent money on a tool on the internets so I could re-program my yota's TPMS sensors every time I change my wheels out.
Yep... sensors from my rig are long gone. The light will burn out eventually.
What Toyota? Our Highlander (2017) remembers both sets. Discount tire programmed the new sensors when we bought snows and it remains happy when I switch them out. Until it gets 3 degrees warmer or colder and the pressure changes by .000005psi and the stupid light comes back on anyway.
Yup, forgot about the sensors...add those to the list. Those things saved me in Telluride this past Summer. I was searching for some late July snow (on more of a dirt road than a 4X4) and found nothing so I got greedy in the SUV. Took a more aggressive road high into a cirque-like basin. Tagged a sharp rock and punctured the sidewall. The TPMS alarm started going off and I fucking gunned it back about a 1/4 mile back to the main dirt road watching the pressure go from 40 to 0. Without them, I'd have to walk to get cell reception etc.
Another point for mountain drives on your SUV...the security bolts on your rims. I suggest you remove them. From the above experience, I was like 'no brainer, I'll just put on the donut and order a new tire.' However, the security bolt requires 'a key attachment' with grooves that aren't too deep. So doing it by hand with a wrench is impossible. I had a guy help me with one of us holding the wrench in place while the other tried to turn and nothing worked. I had to call a tow truck so he could take 2 seconds and use an impact wrench and the bolt came right off. So I guess you could keep a charged impact wrench in your car or remove the bolt. If I was in the middle of nowhere, I'd be screwed. With normal bolts, I'd be fine.
I have a 2013 sequoia and it only stores 5 codes at a time. I just dealt with the warning the first winter then just decided to buy the tool (ATAQ Quickset) for $40 used and give me the ability to do it myself since the winter wheels were OEM takeoffs from craigslist and actually had the sensors already included - I figured I would utilize them and including the tool may help with re-sell on the wheelset at some point but maybe not.
Get 18 inch wheels to put snows on for your F150. Large wheels and low profile tires on a truck scream "I'm a vain douchebag" louder than having 4 lightbars.
The only thing funnier than low-pro snow tires are low-pro mud tires.
Just read the o.p. post, nothin' else.
A Corrola ain't gonna get far in northwest british columbia big dump coastal snowfall zones. Even with winter tires and awd, yer gonna get high centered when the plows can't keep up with snowfall on major routes and more likely sideroads...or get stuck on windrows in the middle/sides of roads during storms. Need the clearance of an s.u.v. Extra bonus of a bigger truck is impact protection from moose which is a big hazard in these parts. Small cars get crushed...with a bigger truck at least you have a chance of it just landing on the hood.
out on the main highway which up here isn't very main when the plow can't keep up nobody is going anywhere
Moose are no joke. Survived this a little over 3 years ago.
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Let's also remember that it doesn't matter how good your tires are or whether you have 4WD or AWD if your wiper blades suck.
RIMS: Most SUVs and trucks are fine with 16/17 or maybe 18" wheels. 18/19/20/21 are bling. Check! There are also usually a lot of cheap wheels on ebay and craigslist because people with too much money take off their factory 17/18s to buy bling 21s. Just make sure the bolt pattern is compatible (eg a 4runner/tacoma/tundra/FJ is going to be a 6x5.5 (6x139) and you want a 6.5-7.5" while a Subaru is probably a 5x100 unless you have a Tribeca).
CHANGE YOUR OWN: If you have your own extra set of rims, you can get a floor jack and an electric impact wrench from harbor freight for $50 each which means you can change your tires with minimal effort in a half hour, no making appointments with the tire shop or loading/unloading tires in your car.
DOWNSIZE: If your vehicle has high stock clearance like a 4Runner, or you have a lifted truck, or you don't get massive storms + drive on unplowed roads, downsizing your tire will decrease your cost, increase your actual fuel economy, and lower your center of gravity.
UPSIZE If your vehicle has low stock clearance like a sedan, or your live somewhere with huge storms or you drive on unplowed, then upsizing your tire will increase your clearance, but check your vehicles forum to see how much you can do without rubbing.
Again, narrowing your section width on your tire is a HUGE performance boost! eg stock 265 to 255 or 245, stock 225 to 215!
TPMS if you vehicle gives you live readout of individual wheels in PSI, them maybe thats worth all the $, but otherwise you have one light that only comes on when they are >25% under inflated! That's far past the point where you lose performance, mileage, and experience accelerated and uneven treadwear!!! Be disciplined, buy a digital meter off ebay or amazon for $10, check once a week cold (to optimize pressures) and when you gas (for safety) and you'll get better mileage, performance, and treadlife.
wow this thread is a shitshow. my 98 4runner, 4x4 not AWD, with Blizzaks is basically unstoppable in snow. I pull subies out of ditches at backcountry trailheads regularly. not to mention the boneheads that thought it was a good idea to try to drive their FWD economy car with all seasons up a snow covered dirt road (cough, Butler Gulch, cough), also the ones most likely to not say thank you and/or have a bad attitude about me trying to help them.
otoh, I did Iceland for 3 months in winter in a Yaris with studded tires with no issues. but then, I was sticking to paved roads. I'm on the verge of swapping my T4R for a FWD with studs, just to save on gas. My gas costs right now going out to the mountains 3-4x a week is ridiculous.
yeah but I had one of them 4-runers ^^ they were pretty good dicking around at low speed but scary at highway speed
I was spending big coin doing a lot of highway miles so I traded it for a TDi golf, I ended up spending more for the car payment but saving on the gas/repair bills so it cost exactly the same per month to drive a new car instead of a 10 yr old SUV and the car was way less stressful to drive at hyway speed
where it was all about stability/handling when the shit goes down