Nice wave. That was awesome! Mineral basin? Curious, have/had you any spinal issues you’ve overcome in your ski history?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
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Nice wave. That was awesome! Mineral basin? Curious, have/had you any spinal issues you’ve overcome in your ski history?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
My mantra these days in a gym setting. Less is more.Quote:
Originally Posted by neufox47
Mtn biking, skiing or any outdoor sport...I'm working on it.
Looks like Rasta Chutes to me, that cliff is usually buried for most of the year but fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Self Jupiter
I'm resigned to finally gym exercising this fall, I hate gym exercising. Shit. But I need to. This thread is a good reference, thanks all.
We have a nutrition science thread now, maybe we're due for an exercise science thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by neufox47
Great post, agreed all around, especially not getting injured in the gym. Getting hurt skiing or riding? All in the game. Getting hurt lifting is unacceptable.
It's out past the end of Road to Provo a little ways. You can see it from Little Cloud. Took a tumble over some rocks once in '09 and bruised a vertebrae a bit, but otherwise no spinal issues thankfully. Never blown an ACL or anything else in that vein either, knock on wood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Self Jupiter
Age-related decline is primarily the result of reduced production of testosterone and HGH. Lifting heavy shit and sprinting stimulates test/HGH production like absolutely nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted
Nice, thanks DTM. You’re an inspiration.
If that were strictly the case, why not do loads of eccentric pistols, reverse hamstring curls, eccentric quad extensions, etc? You can make basically any single-leg exercise purely eccentric by doing the concentric part with both legs. But I don't see anyone who claims eccentrics are key recommend that. AFAICT, Rob Shaul seems to have popularized the idea (at least with the general public) that eccentric loading is key and came up with leg blasters to address the issue...though none of the exercises in leg blasters actually have a purely eccentric component.Quote:
Originally Posted by neufox47
Personally, I don't think it's so much the eccentrics as I think it's the idea of resisting downward acceleration. Of course, resisting downward accelerations is a primarily eccentric load on the legs, but it's different than a slow eccentric load. That's why I like banded barbell back squats, where the bands accelerate you downwards faster than gravity, and the drop snatch, where again you have to accelerate downwards faster than gravity by pushing yourself under the bar. I also love jumping lunges, which as DTM said, is probably the best part of the leg blaster complex.
Thanks. I'm definitely pretty proud to still be skiing like that this close to 40. I even went through a period where due to some unrelated injuries and general life shit I skied <5 days over three seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Self Jupiter
Circular logic is circular? IDK, it seems like anything that has a pronounced eccentric component is going to cause the Repeated Bout Effect to kick in and significantly improve ski fitness.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
This is pretty amusing. Exercise selection, outside of competition movements) is pretty low priority when building a training plan. For skiing, the primary exercise should always be skiing, except in the off-season. Even then, we don’t need to make any gym lift more important or less important than others. No one is gonna squat, deadlift, Romanian deadlift, or box jump their way down the mountain. Your exercises are there to make your muscles stronger, and more durable, while increasing your GPP, and endurance. Principles of strength training, endurance training and stamina training are much more important than exercise selection. If you apply those principles effectively exercise selection isn’t that important.
Nice stompage DTM!! This old boy doesn’t send much over about 15-20’ any more unless really soft and a nice transition. It’s not the stomping that is the issue, is a small miscalc that will make an old guy pay. Much longer recovery and with a family to take care of, missing work for a long stint sucks on the pocket book. Hurt my shoulder on a crash on firm conditions at Mission Ridge in Feb. out of work for 4 weeks. Luckily it was at full pay but it still cost me close to $1,500 for PT and tests.
How is my logic circular? The term "eccentric" simply means the muscle is being lengthened as opposed to concentric (the muscle is contracted). How are squats, lunges, any movement in the leg blasters, etc -- any movement that's performed going up and down equally -- inherently "more eccentric" than concentric? What does a "pronounced eccentric component" mean? I'm not trying to be a jerk; you're knowledgeable and I'm genuinely curious. It's something I haven't really been able to understand since Rob Shaul's original article.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
While I don't disagree with you, I can't ski primarily while I'm in grad school and so I have to show up to a trip ready to ski. As DTM said, the repeated bout effect is real so closer the exercise mimics skiing is key for me. After experimentation, I've found certain exercises are better than others. YMMV.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2FUNKY
Did you hit our head yesterday?Quote:
Originally Posted by 2FUNKY
Nah. Just killin time. That hit looked well over my old man skillz.
I just felt like you answered your own question in a circular manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
A jumping lunge, for example, is going to have a stronger eccentric contraction than a regular lunge since you are catching yourself from a fall out of the air, downhill running is dominated by eccentric contractions, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
The second reply sounded like you had watched the clip for the first time twice!Quote:
Originally Posted by 2FUNKY
Just stoked on the stoke. Esp after self jupiter quoted it and I watched it a second time. We now have a reply quota? Man this place is getting tough.
Nah, it was just an easy incipient senility joke :DQuote:
Originally Posted by 2FUNKY
Ah, of course. It's the strength of contraction not just overall movement. Makes total sense -- I'm not generally stupid but sometimes it takes different way of phrasing it for it to click.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Today is soup day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Lol. We got soft serve ice cream after lunch. Time for a nap.
Glad you're amused, but in a thread about leg extensions this is bad advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
The preferred workout of Walter Jones, the hall of fame tackle for the Seahawks, was to repeatedly push his Escalade up the hill in his driveway while his wife steered. Obviously this worked out for him. His choice may have been unconventional, but it was certainly well informed. And he sure as hell wasn't doing leg curls and leg extensions.
2 more reasons why exercise choice matters:
-transfer from exercise to activity may be overrated from a physical stand point, but not from a motivational one.
-When you are older weaknesses, imbalances and poor mobility can start to cause big problems. Exercise choice becomes more important when your body becomes more of a puzzle
Not all of us are lucky enough to be able to ski all the time. Personally, I miss 5-8 weeks a year during the season due to my back/spinal condition. Working out more strategically and efficiently has brought that number down. Working to eliminate the down time entirely. Appreciate this thread.
Didn't read the whole thing, so sorry if repeating, but: squats are the only weightroom leg workout you ever really need (yeah, know that has been said a bunch). Lunges are worthwhile as well, for sure. BUT, if you have a bad back, like me (exploded disc some years ago - mostly fine these days, but squats w/ big weight are contraindicated), just do leg press instead (you will miss getting the lower back workout of squats, but there are other ways to do that). Be sure and do your reps slowly (especially the return).
Biking (like you mean it!) and running are also great ski conditioning, as are explosive jumps (squat position with no weight, jump onto a bench etc, jump off, repeat until you don't make it and wipe out :biggrin: )
Leg extensions: yes, mostly worthless. Not to mention: really unpleasant, IMO.
This thread has gone full on EpicSki, PugSki, or CrossFit bro. Not sure which.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
Disclaimer: great thread and I’m reading all of it
i'm not allowed to do them after knee replacement but i did them for many years because they were a traditional leg exercise. from everything i heard during the decision-making process for surgery i doubt i'd do them if i could do it over.
I lol'd. Dantheman set me straight on that. It was something that had been puzzling me for a while -- the idea that one can move through the same ROM but have a harder eccentric contraction makes a ton of sense now, but I hadn't thought of it that way before.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefortrees
Part of a big girl snowboard workout:
https://youtu.be/fg37f_X0VTE
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WowQuote:
Originally Posted by charles martel
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I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
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Those one-footed box jump to pistols were pretty boss.
There is some badass stuff in that workout. I think she may also have a serious case of talent. I'm going to try that pistol jump move just to remind myself of what I'm not. I should probably where a helmet.Quote:
Originally Posted by charles martel
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That chick is fucking rad.
I’ll disagree with many posters here. While squats and lunges may be more effective, extensions isolate and work the quad. Anyone with patellar tracking issues will use this important exercise and realize its benefits.
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why is that important?Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERIOR
I have patella tracking issues. Leg extensions and other open kinetic chain exercises make my knee feel worse. AFAICT, working on quad, especially VMO, strength is the old-skool fix for PFS and patellar tendinitis. New theory is that posterior chain (hips, glutes, and hamstring) strength is paramount, along with good mobility in the hips and calfs. Of course, quad strength is important but so many people are already quad dominant, it’s rarely the limiting factor. But I’m always trying to learn, hence my question above.Quote:
Anyone with patellar tracking issues will use this important exercise and realize its benefits.
Struggled for 2 years with PFS and the docs at Boise State put me on a program to strengthen the VMO, hips, ass, and it was a lifesaver.
Some people have bad issues with cartilage degeneration behind the knee, and I’d wager that extensions aggravate that particular complaint.
Extensions worked really well for me. Full rehab took 4-5 months.
It allows you to overload it without hitting other muscles or joints. Say you have an athlete who’s back or hip strength limits their ability to get a full overload of the quad in a squat (pick your variety). This could be a streng issue, an existing injury issue, or a mobility issue. Doesn’t really matter, because unless they are a competitive power lifter, weightlifter, or cross fitter, they don’t have to squat, ever. Anyway, when they load up a bar and squat, they won’t be able to get effective quad growth or development. Now, instead of just going in and spending months just training their butt and back before they can get good leg growth, you could have them train leg extensions prior to squatting. Now, not only will you be able to get effective production out of the first exercise, the quads will be prefatigued going into the squats, and will get some development.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
Say someone can do a a full squat and receive good leg development from it, but their sport requires much more quad strength and size then glute or back strength (skiing for example). You can now follow up the squats, and other more total body exercises with leg extensions. This achieves the overload without placing unnecessary risk on a fatigued hip or back.
Can you achieve this with a leg press?Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
I have arthritis under the patella and leg extensions hurt, unless i lift with both legs, then do leg extensions with one leg only, but not more than 30 degrees of range, from fully extended.
They do seem to work the vmo, but i wonder why bother, since the leg press can be done with really heavy weights and the work most leg muscles.
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As with any exercise, I’d only perform what you can do safely. Plenty of ways to train quad strength. If leg presses provide you with ample stimulation, keep doing them.
You're not wrong in theory, and it might make sense for some people -- in fact, I used to think that way and it was reflected in my training. But my personal opinion now is that if an individual is lacking posterior chain strength to the point where he/she can't get sufficient overload of the quad in a single-leg or double-leg, so-called "functional" movement (e.g., a squat, lunge, step up, pistol, etc) without isolation exercises, then he/she *should* absolutely spend "months just training their butt and back" i.e., doing those movements until the posterior chain is no longer the limiting factor. It's becoming more and more known in the literature that being excessively quad dominant with a weak posterior chain increases the risk of injury to the hips, back, and knees.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
And when a muscle is strong/dominant, it tends to work more. If your quads are your strongest leg muscle, your body will adjust to use them more. Even if your quads are what get the most sore, that doesn't necessarily indicate that you need more quad strength for skiing, running, bootpacking, etc -- instead you might need to reduce the load on the quads by strengthening the posterior chain and ingraining a new neuromuscular movement pattern. As always, YMMV.
I’d argue back skiing requires a lot. Ore out of your quads then glutes or back. Plenty of folks who are very capable squatters find themselves with very sore quads after skiing. They have failed to train their quad muscles adiquatly for the sport. While yes, doing more squats could help them prepare, it also requires much more recovery than just doing quad specific training. By focusing on just their quads they are meeting all of their training requirements, while also enabling more training and faster progress.
In my case, very few people would argue I don’t have adiquate back and hip strength, or under developed quads. At the same time I have never had sore hips or back after skiing. I have had sore quads, and had my quads literally fail on me while skiing early season pow days. This was at the same time I could squat north of 500lb, and could do sets of 20 300lb front squats. My quads were insufficently trained despite being a much more accomplished lifter than many on this forum will ever be. Squatting more was not going to be an efficient way to train my legs for skiing, perhaps massive quantities of leg extensions would have been a more effictive and efficient training strategy. It also would have left more room for training endurance running, which I had to sacrifice to get to a 500lb squat.