I've got a pair of BC Atris 184 and love them for softer days. When you get some time on the Camox I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Quote:
Originally Posted by garuda
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I've got a pair of BC Atris 184 and love them for softer days. When you get some time on the Camox I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Quote:
Originally Posted by garuda
Bump. Let's try this again. I'm planning to spend more time at the resort this season than I have during the past 4yrs combined. I already own some perfectly good options for a daily driver ski, but this is TGR so that's irrelevant.
I'm looking for a ski to take out in average conditions at places that have some steeps - A-basin, CB, and the like. That means firm (hopefully chalky), primarily off piste, likely in tight spaces with moguls. Groomer performance is not important, a nice bonus I guess - I can happily ski just about anything on groomers, and don't spend a lot of time on them anyway. Powder performance, is not important - I ski Billy Goats in anything 6"+.
What are people liking these days for off-piste low tide?
Mfree 108
IIRC your boot sole is close-ish to mine, you're welcome to take my Woodsman 108s for a spin.Quote:
Originally Posted by North
If you're looking for a b ski to your Billygoat, mfree108 or maybe the newest iteration of the woodsman. But the mfree108 is hard to beat (in the 192.)Quote:
Originally Posted by North
I like the Corvus. Stronger carver than most skis as loose as they are. They don't respond well to backseat skiing, but you get a lot of stability for the required input. PM me if you want to pick mine up and take them out for a day. I'm in Lafayette.
A lot of people love the Enforcer 104 frees. I found they wanted to go across the fall line a bit to readily for my tastes. But they are nice and damp yet very easy to skis. Worth checking out for sure.
-Off piste low tide- I think you want to be in a 98mm class ski with metal. I like the Bonafide.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Second the E104 recommendation. I loved them at A Basin last year on a little surprise refresh on top of garbage day. Nice and turny. Follow my daughter into the woods fun with easy to smear tail. Really a good ski for Pali and they roll down the groomers just fine. You aren't going to absolutely haul ass on them off piste...but then that is where your Billy Goat comes in. They also are a little heavy on the metal if you want to full on zipperline the cut bumps but if you are in there checking yourself down like a mere mortal they work great. I think they fill the space between my 88 Brahmas and BG perfectly
I think my new Deathwish 104s are going to play this role really nicely. Loose tail, but good grip on the groomed and chalk. Only 10 laps including some chalky bumps. Much more lively than my Corvus, but certainly a lower top end and less effective edge in similar length.
Should you ever ski Loveland you can take them for a spin in 184. Warden demos so any boot works.
Praxis Slugger - 102 mmQuote:
Originally Posted by North
Haven’t gotten on them yet but I just snagged the Declivity 102ti’s this year for the exact same type of skiing you describe.
I have to add this, because, well I honestly don’t love how these threads always turn into the “this is what I ski thread” but…
I bought a pair of heavy core MVP’s carbon/veneer to be my dick around, ski with the kids and friends and family, low tide, and old man park skiing (cause I still dig that kind of shit) a couple years ago, old version not new but still applies IMO. I very quickly found out that these sticks are shockingly good at what OP described. Seriously, in crusty or soft, breakable/ edgeable off piste these things fucking crush. Like way better at that kind of skiing than what I bought them for. I totally found myself breaking them out on solo charging days over some pretty big hitters that I thoroughly enjoy. It makes since, considering who built them and what for, but holy shit they really shine in the conditions you described. Also really dig the ON3P rec here, haven’t skied the Woodsman in particular, but jeeez do those cores smash, I would highly consider that as well in this spot if I was in the market. I’ve also found that after a lot break in and lots of detuning the MVP’s really do what I originally intended, I don’t have to bring them up to speed to enjoy them (I mean yeah a little, but less than other skis that charge this hard), can bend the tips and tails enough to enjoy the em in the park without folding em while charging and they ski switch as well as they do the other direction, and carve groomers just fine. They really are that ski that is just really, really good at just about everything but probably not the “best” at anything particular. I feel really confident recommending them to any skiers capable of getting out of em what they put into em. I also understand why a lot of folks would be better off with a more park or carving oriented stick with a little less underfoot, but these are actually the skinniest ski in my rotation so I’m not the right guy for those kind off recs
Well yeah, I'm still looking for some 187 MVPs...but maybe North is now too?
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...?highlight=mvpQuote:
Originally Posted by eskido
Jus sayin
I think you are getting some really varied suggestions, and the right answer probably depends on how you ski.
Just in the ON3P world you really could choose anything from Wrens to Woods to Jeffs, and it depends on whether you wanna charge, carve or smear (over simplified, obviously), and I could see you choosing anything from mid 90s to 110. In conditions like you describe I might choose an old pair of Line Supernaturals I have if I really want to lay into the ski and get energy back or some Jeffrey 108s if I'm more into playing that day. They are super different skis but both work for that type of skiing. I also might choose different for CBs headwall laps vs CB North Face off the beaten track stuff.
You've told us where you want to ski, and in what conditions, but not about how you want to ski. Give us some more info about how you like to get down the mountain.
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Originally Posted by NW_SKIER
Define "b ski". The Mfree hype from BGs fan bois has me intrigued.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as Leavenworth Skier
295 for alpine bindings. 303 for touring bindings. Will def take you up on that, although the updated version sounds more my speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
Ah forgot about the Corvus - sounds like something I might like. If BSL works I'd be stoked to take them out. I'm in Superior.Quote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
Maybe. Haven't been on many modern metal lam skis, but haven't loved the ones I have been on. Not metal averse, I do like old metal Volkls (red mantra , explosivs).Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
Full disclosure: I own an E100. Not believing the hype yet, but need to ski them more. Might need to be more neutral on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by uglymoney
Never skied a Moment probably should change that soon. Thanks for the Corvus comparo. Definitely like a loose tail in soft snow and trees (BG, EHP). Never really ski LL but appreciate the offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by doebedoe
I owned MVPs once upon a time. Prematurely sold them. Could've been the tune, was too dumb to check.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
FWIW my older alpine Woods are mounted 1cm back from recommended, so pretty close to the current mount point. And they're mounted for 293 so you're spot on.
Changes since then, other than mount point and slight rejiggering of the core profile & sidecut to match, are 2mm in width and a bit of a core profile change. I also have a pair of 108s order late last season that got the new core profile and I honestly can't tell a difference, although touring boots and bindings vs alpine kinda masks the differences.
tl:dr the ones I have are close enough to the current that you'll know if you like 'em or not
Some good banter in here for sure. My biased interpretation of your ask points directly to the OG Cochise. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned, as it is typically one of the references in this category. I ski mine whenever the Goats don't make sense and have a hard time imagining a better ski for firm off piste conditions. I find narrower and turnier more work in these situations, as they want to carve instead of slarve. Cochise is happy to do that later in tight spaces and will do the former if you have the space to let them run. Sounds like groomer performance is a low priority for you, so the Cochise seems like a good option - that's the only place I sometimes wish they were narrower/turnier. YMMV and all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by North
Can't speak for LWS, but as a fellow BG fan who skis the MFree 108 as my daily, I think of the BG as my "a" ski, meaning it's the ski I want to use first when the conditions are right. It's my favorite ski in the quiver. The MFree is what I ski on days when the BG isn't the right call.Quote:
Originally Posted by North
I've tended towards more charging skis for my DD (QLab, old Gotama and Mantra, etc.) but the MFree gives me the right amount of chargeability with a pop and looseness that I've been looking for. It allows me to ski hard when I want and is still fun to dick around on when I'm skiing with my kids.
While I love the MFree, I'm still a Mag and have a wandering eye for other skis. The other ones I want to try are Katana 108 and Woodsman 108/110 in a 192 (skied and enjoyed a 187). Not all of us have spouses that allow us to have a true fleet (not merely a quiver) of skis like Bandit Man. [emoji28]
My Corvus are mounted for a 302 BSL. STH2 WTR. Should work fine. They are 188's.
Anyone care to compare the mfree with the jeffery? Specifically curious on playfulness
Its really my "a" ski. mf108 daily driver for 0" - 12" and then a wider pow shape (which was 191 Billygoat for a long time) as the 2nd slot for more than 12 - 14" new snow. But I've skied a few pretty deep days on the MF108 and not been unhappy.Quote:
(in the 192.)
Define "b ski". The Mfree hype from BGs fan bois has me intrigued.
Id say try um.
Yeah, that's probably a more accurate way to look at it. I usually don't bring the BGs out until 8+". MFree are on my feet 85% of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as Leavenworth Skier
If I still skied more coastal snow I'd billygoat sooner but now I'm Intermountain and I find less width is okay on an average day.Quote:
Originally Posted by phatty
Full Disclosure pt. Deux: I have owned this ski. It was a long time ago, but I remember it being a good ski that felt a little dead. Suspension-wise, my Goldilocks is something reasonably damp that is also poppy. Prior to BGs I thought this was an inevitable tradeoff, but I find my BGs (2014 186) to strike the balance perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed
Thanks for the prior info and the reminder that you're in ID - that's a useful data point. I went deep on the Dynaster thread and was/am a little wary of the hype(!!) because it's clear that Mfree HQ is in the PNW, where annual snowfall is 2x+ compared to my spot. I think DarthMarkus is in CO. I should probably shoot over a PM about the Mfree. If it does all the goat stuff (crazy maneuverable, lively but also smooths out chunder), but works a little better at low tide I'd probably be pretty stoked.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as Leavenworth Skier
Gotcha, and know exactly what you are talking about regarding ON3P's balance between damp and poppy (see my recent post in the ON3P thread). The on snow feel of my BGs and Steeples makes me want to try the Woodsman 102 for lower-tide conditions. I have skied my Steeples in this slot and had a lot of fun on them, but they're mounted with pin bindings and being driven with touring boots, so it's hardly a fair comparison to the Cochise with alpine clamps and boots. Still, I have had thoughts of putting alpine clamps on the Steeples if I ever upgrade to the current touring layup to dump some weight, so it's not like they sucked in this role - Woods 102s would just be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by North
I think the 192 M-Free 108 is more of a one ski quiver than a daily driver per your definition (you don’t care about pow or groomers). It does quite well when there’s no new snow, but then leaves nothing to be desired when it’s deep. If you aren’t planning to use it in deep snow, I think you could get away with something a bit narrower that would be even less cumbersome in bumps and trees (maybe the M-Free 99? Although, it sounds like the 185 99s are more similar in length to the 182 108s than to the 192s).
TSFKALWS used his “if you like BG’s, you’ll love the MFree108” Jedi mind trick on me last year. I resisted for a while, but eventually gave in. He was absolutely right. I still prefer the Volkl M102 and K108 in true technical “low tide” conditions, but the MFree108 is the real deal. What you choose really depends on how “loose” you want the ski to feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by North
Just weighing in to say that I’m really enjoying the ON3P Woodsman 108 as DD this season in the Wasatch. It skis real short tho.
I feel targeted and called out! I need a safe space!Quote:
Originally Posted by phatty
Seriously, I’m running out of room! I bet I have a better ski walk than Evo right now! 🤣🤣🤣
I'm just envious! I don't know if I could handle the daily decision or have a box big enough for the amount of skis I would want to take up every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man
Agreed, might make sense to get a ski with a more narrow use case. But then I look at the Dynaster thread and you're saying things like "might've jumped the gun on buying Menace 98s" so I don't know what to believe :biggrin:. If there are skinnier options out there with that magic mix of goat-like traits I'm interested - I'd like try a few that have been suggested already. Width is just one design parameter though and I'm trying not to get too hung up on #s, I've made that mistake before.Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
Gut says pretty loose. Confident I can find and set an edge on a "loose" ski, and can make due with less grip in favor of being able to break the tails free in tech stuff (at the resort, tech b/c I have a different preference). I'd be looking harder at the M102 but am not certain it's what I want in bumps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man
I love the M102 and K108. Don’t need to beat that dead horse.Quote:
Originally Posted by North
My quest for a capable but “more playful, less demanding” last season led me to the Woodsman 108. It was really close to what I was after. It felt a lot like a Billy Goat due to the core material and layup. Damp enough but a bit of playful and easy to ski. The problem was the tail…it just wasn’t loose enough. I hear that has been “fixed” with the WD110, so we will see when reports come in this season.
The 192 MFREE 108 is a bit more energetic/less damp than the 187 WD108, but also feels like it wants to be pushed harder. It’s also so amazingly loose in deeper/soft snow. The MFREE 108 more than holds its own on firm snow and groomers, but the WF108 probably gets the edge there. The WD108 was closer to the M102/K108 in the end, but not as damp and stable, so I moved on from them and kept the Volkls and Dynastar since they cover a wider spectrum of conditions. If it’s more skied out and variable, I go with the Volkls. If it is on the soft side, the Dynastar gets the nod.
Not to highjack, but I too am kinda looking for something like what the original poster is looking for.
I currently ride a pair of Line 184 Bacons (a little soft for me) that have Marker F12s on them- We used to ski Wolf Creek a bit and the frame bindings were handy for probing beyond the ropes a bit, but they are heavy and I'd prefer a lighter weight 2-peice binding that fits my AT boots.
One of my favorite older skis was a pair of gold-buddha Volkl Gotamas-stiff enough, slight twin tip for billy-goat-ing, tough bases...
Background: dedicated hike-to terrain skier w/years of ski bumming at Taos and Telluride, always looking for fresh nooks w/techy lines and steep. I don't need a stiff comp ski- I'm 52 now, but still like to ski like I was 26... Currently area ski Crested Butte and Telluride when I'm not touring on Red Mountain Pass.
Curious about the Atomic Backland 107s- want something with lots of energy/poppy that skis bumps, trees, steeps well...
Thoughts?
ON3P woodsman 108s could fit the bill. I like my wren 108s but wouldn't mind something a hair less straight-liney around here, especially since mine are 189s. Their layup is a good mix between damp and poppy, with thick, durable bases and edges.Quote:
Originally Posted by bovine
Let's ski sometime, sounds like we have similar terrain tastes.
If you liked the full-rocker Volkl Gotama why not stick with full rocker? Camber sucks anyways, and there are plenty of full rocker options - Black Crows Corvus, 4frnt Raven/Hoji, Moment Meridian, WNDR Vital/Intention, Volkl V Werks Katana and 100eight if you can find em
Gold Buddha Gots were not the full rocker version. They had camber and were the version before the switch to full rocker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
Thoughts on the Head Kore 105s? The Blister review on the 189s sounds pretty good...
Yup.Quote:
Originally Posted by phatty
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I skied them for a dozen days ntn telemark. Alpine turns were awesome. I found them too stiff particularly in the tip for tele turns. When I dropped the knee the tip would dive instead of float. My buddy loves them for alpine tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by bovine