Attachment 288068
This is from the transition website patrol specs page. I'd be interested to hear what their official response is to your enquiry - please let us know Thanks!
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Attachment 288068
This is from the transition website patrol specs page. I'd be interested to hear what their official response is to your enquiry - please let us know Thanks!
Haha, seriously!Quote:
Originally Posted by bennymac
Yeah, after I posted that, I actually started considering the new X2 for my Sentinel as well because of the bottom out bumper. I figure it should let me run a less crazy amount of volume tokens, since the bumper will mute the 1-2 times per ride that I bottom out. I'm not concerned about that, I just don't like to hear/feel a metallic "CLACK!" when it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac
But yeah, even their sponsored enduro racer Marco Osborne who won Trans Provence a couple weeks ago ran a DHX2 on his Sentinel. Maybe they just DGAF if they're bottoming out hard now and then? Or they run high enough spring rates that it seldom happens?
Damping.
Use it. Those knobs cost lots of money. Don't be skeerd.
Compression or Rebound? I run my rebound fairly wide open (10/14 clicks from closed), to try and ensure the shock doesn't get stuck down in its travel. For the pressure ranges I've tried, that's 1-2 clicks more than Fox's suggestions. I've tried LSC at both ends of the spectrum (4/10, 7/10, and 10/10 from closed).Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
The tuning suggestions I've seen for the Sentinel all involve running fast rebound. One mindset (including what the Transition guys suggested to me) was running a lower pressure (~15 psi above body weight) with lots of LSC. And the other that I've seen a lot is run higher pressure (like 30-40 psi above body weight) with very little to no LSC.
The sag recommendations are worthless IMO, since I'm able to get 18mm sag in identical gear, seated, running anywhere from 190-220 psi, depending on slight variations on how I sit on the seat.
“The new 2019+ X2 is a great option for that frame! The guys in house that run the DHX2 have some custom larger bottom out bumpers installed. We've had really good results with the Push and EXT options and some guys are hit or miss with the Super Deluxe coil. As far as I know the Marzocchi CR bottoms out on the carbon frame with the larger piggy back design.”
From Transition themselves.
Re: Patrol
Anybody interested in a 1 yr old medium carbon Smuggler for a good price? I love the bike but gotta swap to something we sell. I’ll have pics and info this wkd
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High speed compression damping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andeh
I'm confused though, are you running a coil or an air shock?
If it's an air shock put some damn spacers in there. That's an easy one.
Loving my Sentinel :smile:
All day backcountry mission with 6-7k of climbing (including lots of steep singletrack) or Whistler Westside steeps, it does it all. The traction in wet sketchy stuff continues to surprise me, certain things are about to go wrong it hooks up and keeps going. Not going to win any XC races but damn it climbs steep technical singletrack so well for it's weight.
I really liked my sentinel. I never felt like the rear suspension worked all that well though. Maybe it was just that dpx2 that I didn't get along with, I never tried other shocks on there. I've moved onto an evil offering and I've got it setup really close to the sentinel geometry wise (160mm up front, low offset fork, -1 angleset). The evil rides similar but is so much better in pretty much every way. I did anti up for a custom tuned rear coil from Avalanche which might be part of it but even with the stock RS air shock that came on it the small bump sensitivity was so much better than on the sentinel.
All the transitions went back to a really flattish leverage curve. I don't know why but it's one of the main reasons I won't be owning one. They did it right with the patrol v2 with the metric shock because it gave it a more progressive rate. The shorter travel bikes are even flatter which is probably where everyone's gripes are coming from. Air shock territory for sure.
That all makes sense. Evils are all very progressive at the beginning of their stroke. Sentinel is pretty linear throughout its travel. So Offering = better for small bump traction, Sentinel = more supportive and better for pumping.Quote:
Originally Posted by dfinn
Yeah, it could be that for sure. I guess I only mentioned small bump sensitivity but for me (and maybe it was my setup) the transition felt like it was a bit of a plow bike where the evil has this ability to be either. It can mob straight down chunk and be stuck to the ground or it's totally happy to pop off of everything and be super playful where I was never getting much of that from the sentinel. Nothing against transitions though, those guys are awesome and a great company, just adding some food for thought for anyone shopping around.
FWIW I only demo'd the Sentinel but I agree that it was more of a plow bike. If what I cared about was getting from point A to point B as quickly as possible, I would for sure own that over the Patrol. The Patrol I think has more variation in personality, like how you describe your Offering. The linkage curves seem to be pretty similar (at least according to linkagedesign.blogspot.com) so it must just be the wheel size between the Patrol and Sentinel?
The only real complaint I have about my Patrol's suspension is it feels more harsh than I think it should on square edge hits. If I had the talent to pick good lines this wouldn't be a problem at all.
Agree to disagree :smile:
Yeah, I always felt that way on the sentinel too. It seemed like it was slamming into everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
Currently on the stock DPX2 Performance Elite. The DPX2 doesn't have HSC adjust, which is probably why I was getting frustrated. I already have the largest token in there. I did switch over to running the higher sag/higher LSC setup that a guy from Transition recommended last night, and on a short easy ride it did seem to feel better. The much higher LSC is probably adding some of the needed HSC (if I understand the curves from Vorsprung correctly).Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
I've since impulse bought an 11-6 because Push let me know they had a few Sentinel blem models for 25% off, but haven't received it yet. At that price it's less than an EXT (once you figure in tax and import fees), plus I have more faith in Push's base tune than EXTs, just because they make so many of them. I was all set to buy an X2 set up for Sentinel, but the Dirt Labs guys weren't picking up the phone and didn't respond to my email in time, so their loss. And I regularly see 11-6s up for $800 on PB, so if it doesn't feel great it won't be a huge loss, or that much more than the X2 once you added in mounting hardware.
Dfinn, it's interesting to hear you went that way. That was the other build I was considering before I got the Sentinel: basically putting Sentinel geo on DW linkage. But it would have been a few hundred more at retail (base price + angleset + new dropper), and I ended up getting a good deal on the Sentinel. If I'm not happier with a custom tuned shock, maybe that's where I'll end up too.
I ended up picking up the frame very lightly used off of PB and got a pretty good deal then swapped most of my existing sentinel parts over. The Avalanche shock (zoke Bomber CR) is really amazing and at about half the price of push with what I'm told similar performance, minus all the fancy dials and switches. Which is fine by me because I've barely touched it from the way that Craig at Avalanche sent it to me, I think I maybe added a click more of compression but it was pretty much perfect for me.
I can't figure out why they would do it. It doesn't make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
By DW Linkage you mean just a fancy name on a single pivot right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andeh
Haha, man nothing but Transition love for two years and then I buy one a week ago and the disillusionment starts in earnest. You guys suck.
;)
I’m gonna replace my 5.5 with either Patrol or Nomad (or Megatower/Rallon if I stay 29) this thread is good reads
Santa cruz did much worse for far more years and the company blew up.Quote:
Originally Posted by shirk
I mean it took transition over 10 years to realize that leverage curves even exist. They're at least ahead of santa cruz in that regard. Now they just need to figure out what those curves mean.
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
The 2015 Patrol that is loaded in Linkage had a pretty good LR.
SC yeah that banana shaped thing they called a LR...how did become so popular with that crap?
They're still really good bikes. The geometry is excellent. Their warranty support is excellent. They don't have any stupid bullshit standards like SuperBoost+, PressFit, IS headsets, or 34.9 seatposts. Their prices are better than SC/Evil/Yeti/Ibis/Orbea/Specialized. Like I said, my only gripe is that the suspension only has like 10% progressivity vs. 20-25%, and even then it at least doesn't have any stupid big regressive points (like Ibis, or my previous Nomad 3).Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
I'm also probably being way pickier about my suspension than my skills warrant, due to being in kind of a biking funk due to several crashes about a month ago. I'm just trying to get things set up for maximum grip, hopefully increasing confidence, so that I start riding aggressively again.
It's nearly impossible to fix bad geometry on a frame. Suspension is a lot easier to tweak.
Can't throw a rock in this town without hitting one.
That's partly because they're local, but mostly because they just plain work.
The 'net puts everything under a microscope.
That last line is dead on. What a time to be alive. It’s a fucking bike. (Totally guiltily of over analyzing;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
You know a guy named thad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker
Tell him kidwoo said his tires suck. It will be worth the entertainment.
Have the new low shock SC fixed their LR issues?
Talked to Transition guys yesterday about the Smuggler, and moving forward they will no longer be making it in an aluminum frame, only carbon. Im a bit new to the MTB scene, so trying to get a full grasp from the benefits of carbon. I dont really care about the weight savings, but does it really make for a more plush damp ride than aluminum? Anyone with experience on both frames that can comment? I've also seen claims that they last longer, and nowadays are actually stronger than aluminum. If all that is the case, seems worthwhile to throw down the extra money for carbon!
Also, if there is already a thread talking about carbon frames, please direct me to it. Thanks!
NSMB compared identical Knolly Wardens (one carbon, one aluminum) here: https://nsmb.com/articles/duelling-k...inal-verdicts/
Perfect, thanks. That's EXACTLY what I wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andeh
Don't know him at all, but I've heard the name (from about 10ish years ago, if that sounds right?)Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
...and if I meet him, I will.
I'm selling mine because kidwoo said the leverage ratio sucks. Clearly it's unrideable.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Won't even get that thing out of the parking lot it's so bad. Pretty sure when you pedal it goes backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
Some thoughts after first two rides on the Smuggler, coming off a 2015 Tallboy LTc.
My local test loop has two turns that have a steep, rocky entrance to slightly loose, moderately bermed corner. On the Tallboy I would set up by getting weight pretty far back for the steep part and then coming back to center for the turn. I need to (or can) stay forward on the Smuggler all the way through.
I don't notice tight, uphill switch backs to be any harder than the Tallboy, if anything, I had to shift my weight around less to make the turn without spinning out.
I've ridden this loop 15 times according to strava, uphill is a little over a mile and downhill is a little over a mile. My uphill time was 30 seconds slower than my average, but this is most likely fitness as I had surgery and haven't ridden for three weeks. Downhill time was 2nd best ever and probably 20 seconds faster than average, and it felt like a very average effort because I'm still sore from the foot surgery and I was riding with my dog.
Suspension is nearly dialed after today. I know it's highly personal, but I seem to always run less air pressure than recommended and run rebound a few clicks slower than Fox suggests for my weight. I'm guessing this is because they set it for people interested in jumps and I'm mostly interested in buttery smooth, high speed rocky/rooty sections.
X01 eagle seems loud and clanky compared to my 10 speed XT. Any shifting under the lightest load sounds like shit is coming apart. My kid that works at a bike shop said that's pretty normal for SRAM. Guide RSC brakes have more modulation that the XT's but I have to get used to that, I have a little panic when they don't bite hard right away.
All in all, pretty happy, I think this'll be a fun bike and I'm looking forward to some real rides.
That's a bit backwards I think, generally faster rebound is better for high speed rough trail. It keeps the fork moving and working with the terrain.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
And rebound is dependent on air pressure, so if ZZZ is running less pressure than recommended he should need less rebound damping to get the same rebound speed/recovery, not more. I'm running the rebound wide open on my kid's bike because the shock only has 50 psi in it. Running too much/too slow rebound is one of the top ways people screw up their suspension setup (BT; DT). Rebound should be set just slow enough that it doesn't top out harshly and/or buck you off the bike, no slower. Maybe turn it down a couple clicks for smooth jump lines or low-speed technical jank.Quote:
Originally Posted by dfinn
Hmmm, you're right that does seem backwards. The air pump/gauge I use is 20 years old, maybe it's wildly inaccurate?
It feels good, and I'm not blowing through travel. When I'm back to 100% the LBS said they'd let me use their shockwiz, it'll be interesting to see what it it says. In the meantime, I'll tinker.
Everything is fine with them.