Decompression Event in an airliner

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

rwy 1/19 @ DCA is approx 7000' and the field elevation is basically sea level. That's not too short for pretty much any narrow body. Some might be load limited for take off.

The biggest challenges there are the visual approach you have to fly when the weather is good, and that there are three runways that are close enough to mistake one for another (has happened many times). Literally the last time I was there I heard, "_____airline call sign____ ahhh... it looks like you're lining up with 15. You're cleared to land 19!"

The visual for the main southbound runway requires that you fly down the river and not go over the land on either side - even at night. That's mostly for noise because you're only 900 feet over the Key Bridge, but you can't miss that turn at the island or you'll be in the restricted airspace over the Lincoln Memorial, i.e. in deep shit. If you cut the corner at the Arlington Bridge instead of continuing down to the 14th St Bridge, you'll fly over the Pentagon - which isn't shown on the chart. It's actually pretty fun.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3787/3...254bcaa3_b.jpg

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Thanks for the clarification on all that.

Used get high and lie on the tables in that park that's right by the runway to watch the planes land and takeoff right over your face (Wayne's World style). Good times.

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

i read that the approach is nicknamed the slam dunk

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Sure. That's a common nickname for any arrival/approach that sets you up high. SFO from the east, PVR from the north, MEX from any side really... even DEN sometimes. Can also be from atc clearances/shortcuts, "he's setting us up for the slam dunk".

The same holds true for pilot's planning, but that's the chop and drop, eg "if there's no traffic, I'm gonna and chop and drop, and keep it tight" (close to the airport).

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Originally Posted by Phildo_Baggins

Thanks for the clarification on all that.

Used get high and lie on the tables in that park that's right by the runway to watch the planes land and takeoff right over your face (Wayne's World style). Good times.

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Yeah, DC is great for that.

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

I would have been fucked by the pressure change. My ears can't handle a regular flight. It sucks. I didn't always have an issue until a flight when I was around 30yrs old. I wanted to cut my head off I was in so much pain and I really had no idea wtf was going on. The pain goes down your neck behind your ear and into core of your brain...or somewhere like that :wink: fucking brutal! :frown: Since then I've had to use those ear pressure reducing plugs and even with those I sometimes have issues. If I have any kind of head congestion I don't even want to get on the plane.

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Need to clean out the sinuses. I suggest copious quantities of blow. Either that or hot mustard.

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Originally Posted by Phildo_Baggins

Used get high and lie on the tables in that park that's right by the runway to watch the planes land and takeoff right over your face (Wayne's World style). Good times.

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Back in about 1980 or so I watched my dad spend a perfectly good early June evening trying to time a photo just right so as to capture a plane directly above the Lincoln Memorial as seen somewhere out by one end of the reflecting pool. The pictures were blurry and he didn't get the shot he wanted. A tripod and a rapid fire rig might have helped.

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

After eating oysters in Paris, I once spent the entire trip in the bathroom of an Air France 747.

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How romantic.

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Originally Posted by Phildo_Baggins

Thanks for the clarification on all that.

Used get high and lie on the tables in that park that's right by the runway to watch the planes land and takeoff right over your face (Wayne's World style). Good times.

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We do this down in SD in Balboa park eating lunch from the marketplace deli.

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

Sure. That's a common nickname for any arrival/approach that sets you up high. SFO from the east, PVR from the north, MEX from any side really... even DEN sometimes. Can also be from atc clearances/shortcuts, "he's setting us up for the slam dunk".

The same holds true for pilot's planning, but that's the chop and drop, eg "if there's no traffic, I'm gonna and chop and drop, and keep it tight" (close to the airport).

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I have to assume SD is another

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

If it's not too late to recognize International Womans Day and women pilots...

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Would bang.

^^^def

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Originally Posted by steepconcrete

I have to assume SD is another

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SAN has a pretty standard arrival, but when landing on 27 the terrain to the right is higher than the field, sloping down toward the runway, and there is this building (it's either a parking garage or an office building with rooftop parking) that is so close, it looks like you're going to clip it with the wingtip.

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

^^^def



SAN has a pretty standard arrival, but when landing on 27 the terrain to the right is higher than the field, sloping down toward the runway, and there is this building (it's either a parking garage or an office building with rooftop parking) that is so close, it looks like you're going to clip it with the wingtip.

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Cool. I was under the impression that it had the steepest descent rate of all major US airports. Local lore I guess.

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Originally Posted by iceman

We had a little episode a couple years ago, we're in a small plane approaching the landing strip, there's a Forest Service chopper approaching the strip from the other direction, our pilot gets him on the radio and says, wtf are you doing, get out of the way. Chopper pilot says sorry, I'll bear left and get out of the way, But instead he goes right, and right at us. Our pilot yanked us out of the way in a steep bank/roll and we missed the guy by about 50 feet, then banks back and puts the plane on the ground and we all sit there shaking for a minute, including the pilot. Dude saved our lives for sure.

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Helicopters can really fuck up the air with the vortices they generate.
Seen this before?

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Originally Posted by huckbucket

Who's been on the new 787. I get to take one in a few weeks. Kinda excited.

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I liked the one I flew on. But it was also London-LA with <100 passengers. And the woman in my row spilled her champagne so they gave us more. The auto dimming windows are nice, and that they are so big.

Somewhat related - really interesting article about the Air France crash in the Atlantic in 2009. Scary to think about the chaos in the cockpit while most passengers were likely asleep in the back.

Should Airplanes Be Flying Themselves? - by William Langewiesche
Vanity Fair October 2014

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/busin...ight-447-crash

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Originally Posted by bennymac

Somewhat related - really interesting article about the Air France crash in the Atlantic in 2009. Scary to think about the chaos in the cockpit while most passengers were likely asleep in the back.

Should Airplanes Be Flying Themselves? - by William Langewiesche
Vanity Fair October 2014

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/busin...ight-447-crash

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Read about this United 232 and the power of CRM and BAM pilots saving the day.

Interesting coincidence... Denny Fitch who saved the day served on the NASA Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel which my grandfather chaired (the same one who was an instructor/test pilot for WWII planes).

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

Buck up you pussies. I'm surprised nobody is bitching that on their last flight they ran out diet ginger ale. That will come on page 4.

You all would have shit your pants flying daylight B-17 missions over Germany in the big one; and pissed your pants in a DC-3 that shook and flexed like a '72 Gremlin.

Where are the real men today?

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Dude, the originator of this thread said the hardest part was watching his kids be in pain and freak out and that otherwise it would have been fun.

You were killing it for a while there, man, now your dropping a wwii reference like get off my lawn. What happened?

OP, did someone not have their phone on airplane mode? ;-)

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

^^^def



SAN has a pretty standard arrival, but when landing on 27 the terrain to the right is higher than the field, sloping down toward the runway, and there is this building (it's either a parking garage or an office building with rooftop parking) that is so close, it looks like you're going to clip it with the wingtip.

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Have you ever landed/taken off "6"(from the ocean side)?

It's always interesting sitting next to someone who hasn't landed in SAN..."should the office building be this close?"

Back in the 90's on a SWA flight from Phoenix to Oakland, we got to about the Grand Canyon and had some type of hydraulic leak/issue. They turned us around to go back to PHX. Noticed the plane "dancing" a little side to side IIRC. There was not a lot of people on the flight but I will always remember the mother with a young child/baby that started crying. We had had a couple beers in the lounge prior so we were a little free n easy, but the baby started crying and mom was quite uneasy. We were joking about the whole thing(deflecting?) but a co-worker comments rather loudly "You know how in all those plane crash movies that there is always a baby crying?" Mom didn't appreciate the humor at all.
Got back to PHX to the whole parade of emergency vehicles lining the runway. De-planed, waited a few hours and then they put us on the Shamu plane. Not inspiring to say the least as we hadn't sen that one before.

TLDR: Maybe we almost died, but obviously didn't./?

For those who haven't the pleasure of a midflight near disaster, that is likely to change. Mew federal requirements will make any regulation subject to be the most cost effective requirememt, not the safest requirement. This could get real interesting.

Theoretically, the airline can say it is cheapest to have one pilot in the cockpit, and drop the requirement for a co-pilot.

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Originally Posted by hutash

For those who haven't the pleasure of a midflight near disaster, that is likely to change. Mew federal requirements will make any regulation subject to be the most cost effective requirememt, not the safest requirement. This could get real interesting.

Theoretically, the airline can say it is cheapest to have one pilot in the cockpit, and drop the requirement for a co-pilot.

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Link, or is this just Trump-induced-conjecture?

I have a hard time believing that the thousands of people in government and the air travel industry will not keep safety job #1. Downed planes are hard on bottom lines.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Link, or is this just Trump-induced-conjecture?

I have a hard time believing that the thousands of people in government and the air travel industry will not keep safety job #1. Downed planes are hard on bottom lines.

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It is an obvious and forgone conclusion based upon statements regarding the 'administrative state' by various people in the administration including Trump. And regardless of the amazing and highly dedicated people who work there today, they will be squeezed by budget cuts and culling of personnel who don't drink the kool-aid. Sad times. Air safety is just one of the many areas that will be dynamited in the coming years.

Ive had some bad flights, but the worst was flying out of Buenos Aires and having the pilot announce their World Cup win. And if the dancing in the aisles wasnt enough, they mis caculated fuel and we made an unschedueled stop in Mexico. We spent six hrs parked by ourselves, in the heat, with no power. I would have preffered rapid decompression.

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Originally Posted by steepconcrete

Cool. I was under the impression that it had the steepest descent rate of all major US airports. Local lore I guess.

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The final approach segment on rwy 27 is 3.5 degrees and "normal" is 3.0 so it is steeper, but since the airplane is in a high drag configuration at that point with the flaps and gear hanging out, it isn't particularly challenging.

So it could be the steepest final at a major airport (I dunno) but it isn't crazy like some of the smaller mountain airports.

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Originally Posted by 406

Have you ever landed/taken off "6"(from the ocean side)?

It's always interesting sitting next to someone who hasn't landed in SAN..."should the office building be this close?"

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Yes, but the other side is an upsidedown 6. Runways are named for their compass direction, so the two ends are always +/- 18 in relation to each other.

And they're right. That building shouldn't be there. WTF were they thinking?

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

And they're right. That building shouldn't be there. WTF were they thinking?

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At the hobby field Montgomery just to the east they made them take the top three stories off a building.

I appreciate pisteoff's posts... are you a commercial pilot? What aircraft do you fly?

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Originally Posted by hutash

Theoretically, the airline can say it is cheapest to have one pilot in the cockpit, and drop the requirement for a co-pilot.

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Nope.

ICAO calls the shots.

Boeing and Airbus certify their airplanes for two pilot operation.

The rest of the world wouldn't allow entry of foreign carriers (US) that are non-compliant with international standards.

Plus, we still have unions.

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Originally Posted by Summit

are you a commercial pilot? What aircraft do you fly?

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Yes, and currently A320. Previously B757, B737, CRJ.

Business buddy of mine told a story of a long-haul in which he watched:

- One of the pilots leave the cockpit
- One of the stewardesses go in
- 10 mins passed
- Said stewardesses leaves the cockpit and proceeds to clean herself up (refresh makeup, etc)
- Second pilot returns to the cockpit

^^^ Do you recall if the pilot's name was Otto?

Classic. Remind me I have to play that movie for my kids.

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Originally Posted by riser3

It is an obvious and forgone conclusion based upon statements regarding the 'administrative state' by various people in the administration including Trump. And regardless of the amazing and highly dedicated people who work there today, they will be squeezed by budget cuts and culling of personnel who don't drink the kool-aid. Sad times. Air safety is just one of the many areas that will be dynamited in the coming years.

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Come on man, that's some serious chicken little sky is falling bullshit that is way too common these days. There's only so much damage one man can do when you have an entire industry and global aviation network of governments and agencies dedicated to air safety. If everyone keeps preaching doom and gloom about every single thing in this era we're all going to be very, very exhausted before the first year of his reign is even over. Breathe people. Trump isn't going to cause planes to crash into the sea any day now. Because:

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

Nope.

ICAO calls the shots.

Boeing and Airbus certify their airplanes for two pilot operation.

The rest of the world wouldn't allow entry of foreign carriers (US) that are non-compliant with international standards.

Plus, we still have unions.

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

Yes, and currently A320. Previously B757, B737, CRJ.

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Originally Posted by Summit

I appreciate pisteoff's posts...

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X2

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

Ive had some bad flights, but the worst was flying out of Buenos Aires and having the pilot announce their World Cup win. And if the dancing in the aisles wasnt enough, they mis caculated fuel and we made an unschedueled stop in Mexico. We spent six hrs parked by ourselves, in the heat, with no power. I would have preffered rapid decompression.

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The 6 hours on the ground stuck in that metal tube is the suck for sure.

So you're really not going to like this, but I guarantee that it wasn't a miscalculation, and the company's dispatch planned it that way.

The fuel requirement is to take off with enough to go to the planned destination, then divert to a secondary destination, plus an amount equal to a fixed flying time. Plus it takes fuel to lift more fuel, so if you need an extra 1000 lbs of fuel for the trip due to winds, you really need to add something like 1100 lbs because you'll burn the 100 to carry the 1000. (I'm making these numbers up)

And there is a maximum takeoff weight for any given runway and meteorological conditions. So if it was really hot that day, it might have been that they couldn't carry a full load without making a fuel stop.

On the more difficult legs to plan, dispatchers are often faced with the choice of adding fuel 'just in case', or bumping pax/bags, or just hope that it all works out (with the occasional fuel stop). It's a tough job for sure.

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Originally Posted by steepconcrete

X2

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X3

pisteoff- loving the insight you are providing.
if you're bored I would love to get a commercial pilots opinion about the article I posted earlier

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/busin...ight-447-crash

It's long so don't feel you have to indulge me.

The point about fuel stops meaning no bumped passengers/bags makes total sense but not something passengers would normally "get".

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Originally Posted by huckbucket

Business buddy of mine told a story of a long-haul in which he watched:

- One of the pilots leave the cockpit
- One of the stewardesses go in
- 10 mins passed
- Said stewardesses leaves the cockpit and proceeds to clean herself up (refresh makeup, etc)
- Second pilot returns to the cockpit

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-The PA button can occasionally get stuck.
-Captain says to FO, "man, I could use a coffee and a blowjob right now"
-Flight attendant (along with everybody else) hears this in the cabin, and walks quickly toward the cockpit to alert the crew
-Old lady in first class stops flight attendant and says, "wait, you forgot the coffee"

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

Yes, and currently A320.

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Nice. You'll be the prefect person to ask...could Natalia have any hope to land the plane in real life?

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

Nice. You'll be the prefect person to ask...could Natalia have any hope to land the plane in real life?

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Didn't have time to watch it. Does she make it back on the treadmill safely?

I don't want to spoil the ending.

i couldn't get all the way thru that but it looked about as successful as Melania trump trying to read to a bunch of kids

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fswgF7Q6Kpw

Is it happy?

I think a brief video tutorial such as above on how to land the particular plane you are flying on would be much more entertaining than the safety video in 3 languages they currently show.

I once flew from EWR to YYZ. I had done this flight a few times before and we'd always taken something on the order of the 737-200, but this time a DC-10 rolled up to the gate. I got on this relatively empty large plane thinking Continental musta just run out of 737's. All of the sudden 100+ Chinese people on a tour get on the plane and fill the plane up. The flight attendant asks the the three Chinese guys in front of me if they understood that they were in an Exit row. She just wanted to make sure they understood the instructions she was about to give.
One guy nods yes and says "Coca-Cola," the other guy says "me too."

After a quick seat swap I had the Exit row to myself the whole way to Toronto.

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Originally Posted by b-bear

i couldn't get all the way thru that but it looked about as successful as Melania trump trying to read to a bunch of kids

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fswgF7Q6Kpw

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To be fair I think English is her fourth language.

And I didn't watch to the end but she stayed away from the flight controls as well which is good.