Rando Races at ski areas. Why?

As a rando racer (and a racer in the Brundage race that Jonathan attended) I feel compelled to answer.

I totally understand not "getting" resort-based skimo- it is definitely an acquired taste. Especially skinning at resorts, when you can literally ski 5x as many laps if you just take the damn lift. The simplest cop-out answer that might satisfy you is that here on the east coast we have no choice! If you're scheduling in advance only resorts offer reliable snow for any kind of ski races, particularly those that require long uphill skintracks with downhill sections that can be linked up, there really aren't any reliable backcountry options.

But assuming that answer isn't satisfactory and the question is more generally "why skimo," I can say that I got into it because a) I love to ski, b) I love to be outside skinning, c) I enjoy moving fast and efficiently, and d) I enjoy pushing myself and improving physically- skimo is a way to do all of those things, with like-minded people, in at atmosphere of *friendly* competition. It's not unlike the trail running scene- full of friendly athletes who will share a beer with you after and tell you all they know about the sport to help you improve. Good people that will cheer you on even if they pass you. And coming from nationals last week, I can tell you this is true at the national level as well- if not more so.

Also, FWIW, I think skimo racing is one of the hardest and most complete sports out there. To be competitive, you have to a) be fit for the uphills, b) be strong enough to ski confidently down immediately after pushing yourself on the ups, c) be an excellent technical skier, on skinny skis where you can't rely on the ski to do all the work, and d) master the art of skimo racing- e.g., gear management, transitions, etc. Being good at all of these things makes you a better backcountry skier, without question. Also, pulling it off in a race, where everything aligns and you ski 5000+ vert in a matter of 1.5-2 hours after pushing yourself to the limits- the whole experience is tremendously gratifying.

Now clearly this isn't for everyone. You have to be pre-disposed to like endurance sports, which requires and appetite for a bit of suffering. And if you want to improve (also very gratifying, just like getting better at guitar or woodworking, for example), you have to be diligent and set long-term goals and make plans and stick to them, which yes means structured training, which also can mean making sacrifices taken to the extreme. Some people dig that, others prefer the flexibility to just ski whenever you want and whatever you're in the mood for. IMO Both approaches are valid- but that's why this is such a great sport, it's different things to different people. I love powder skiing as much as the next guy, but I am wired to enjoy pushing myself. It's not about being the best or beating everyone else - but really is about seeing what I can do and how efficient I can be.

Regarding being/feeling "free" in the mountains, FWIW I personally feel the most free when I can travel great distances while thinking as little as possible about my gear and equipment, transitions, etc, and keeping it as simple as possible- all of which is part of the skimo experience.

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Originally Posted by alto

Do you prefer a Fiat Panda or a Toyota Tundra?

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This is a perfect answer.

Also, pulling it off in a race, where everything aligns and you ski 5000+ vert in a matter of 1.5-2 hours after pushing yourself to the limits- the whole experience is tremendously gratifying.
at least for one guy
seems like a mid life crisis sport for audi drivers that can afford the gear.
seriously though nothing wrong with being fit seems like an enjoyable way to get there.
If anyone is coming to the Wolfcreek race on Jan 7 I would be happy to house you.
East coast guys better show up soon to get used to the altitude.

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Originally Posted by m-ruta

Fun fact: the moment is always in your head. Pace has nothing to do with it.

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Ha, yes it is always in your head. But hell no on pace, pace changes your focus.

Anyways, there's a lot of good points bronco/darkstar/etc brought up and good on ya. I'm not hear to say who's right or argue my opinion, I just could do without the real shitty ego-driven douchebags you find in endurance sports. But as someone else has mentioned here before, there are douches everywhere. I quit endurance comps because I had more fun without all the whiners and rules and all the money spent. That's just me, I know.

Still not going back on turning up my snobby nose on mountaineer turds who race up the Eiger and things like that though. The new? mountaineer generation of Altos who know how to have fun are a different breed though!

And there is an unbelieveable amount of denial in that your ego is not feed in different ways through these events. Not the worst sin the world, don't get me wrong!

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

People who think only one kind of skiing is legit just don't like skiing all that much.

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This. Why care so much about what others are doing.

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Originally Posted by muted

I don't feel the same way about most sports. I like watching a lot of surf/bike/freeride comps.

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I'm having a hard time figuring out how you can feel one way about one type of skiing, and another way about another type of skiing or other outdoor sports. Especially ones that are subjectively judged like freeride and surf comps.

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Originally Posted by muted

As for the second point, I've been there. You are in the moment for sure, but it's a moment all in your head. You are not stopping to smell the roses, you are probably trampling right through them if it's a shortcut to your PR.

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Neither is a guy trying to win a FWT event, surfing the Eddie/Titans of Mavs, or racing Pikes Peak. Again, I don't get how you can compartmentalize your feelings about competitions in one sport versus another.

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Originally Posted by muted

I just could do without the real shitty ego-driven douchebags you find in endurance sports.

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You acknowledged as much in your next sentence, but competitions attract ego-driven Type-A types in every sport, and the higher the level the more likely you are find them since that mentality is often a requirement of getting to an elite level. Even cheese rolling, shin-kicking and worm charming probably have their fair share of dickheads that everyone hates.

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Originally Posted by muted

Still not going back on turning up my snobby nose on mountaineer turds who race up the Eiger and things like that though.

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I'd bet that we'll see this trend back off in general, at least for awhile. It's been "the thing" in recent years since people like Steck, Honnold, Jornett, etc. opened people's eyes to just what was possible. Once that happened others naturally decided to try and find just where the limit was, but it can't last forever.

So you think you get away from ego?

Ego makes the world go round

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Originally Posted by muted

Anyways, there's a lot of good points bronco/darkstar/etc brought up and good on ya. I'm not hear to say who's right or argue my opinion, I just could do without the real shitty ego-driven douchebags you find in endurance sports. But as someone else has mentioned here before, there are douches everywhere. I quit endurance comps because I had more fun without all the whiners and rules and all the money spent. That's just me, I know.

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classic example of the kettle calling the pot black.

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Originally Posted by muted

Still not going back on turning up my snobby nose on mountaineer turds who race up the Eiger and things like that though. The new? mountaineer generation of Altos who know how to have fun are a different breed though!

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These two groups have more in common than not.

Ego is why man climbed a mountain in the first place and why man continues to do so.
Shoot, ego is why you claim that your way of enjoying the mountains is better than others.

I started following Kilian Jornet this year. I'm blown away by what he does and how he does it. Also, he seems to have a lot of fun in the mountains, where he spends more time than 99.9% of the people on this board. But I suppose one person's inspiration is another's turd.

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Originally Posted by muted

And there is an unbelieveable amount of denial in that your ego is not feed in different ways through these events. Not the worst sin the world, don't get me wrong!

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Nobody is tackling this one comment and probably why people are taking this personal.

You can balance your ego and still compete. You can climb to conquer your inner demons and other good reasons people have posted here or you can climb to conquer nature and in order post about it online. Yes, sometimes my comments are contradictory, like the entire human condition is, but I'm not gonna write pages explaining everything perfectly when this thread just needs more funny than more preaching. Some shit's better explained in person.

4 pages in and we've forgot this. Search function JONG. This has been discussed ad nauseam.
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...2-SkiMo-Racing
http://www.sierramtnguides.com/skimo-is-neither/

Every turn I make on snow is an ego stroke, no competitions required.

You toobs fail?

I'm concerned about gender neutral, free range, locally sourced, fair trade, organic, gluten free, acupuncture enabled, electoral college free rando races at ski areas.

Given the available resources, why don't these thing get staged in Antarctica? Why should I subsidize the socialist market dickwaves of a winnowed subclass?

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Originally Posted by muted

Nobody is tackling this one comment and probably why people are taking this personal.

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I'm in agreement with Mofro on this one. Also, I've only done a handful of races, but the ones I've done have been an ego-deflating, humbling experience if anything. I ran the Speedgoat 50k a few years ago. I trained my ass of for it and had what to this day was probably the best run of my life. I was absolutely pumped on my 8-hour time, then the finish times were posted and I discovered that that was only good enough to place 53/150 and I was almost 2.5 hours slower than the winner. That'll let the air out of your balloon.

I have absolutely zero desire to do a rando race but also have absolutely zero issue with people wanting to. Lots of friends have done them and said it was a blast.

But can you idiots please stop calling it skimo? Ski mountaineering is climbing up mountains then skiing down them. This inbounds ski running thing is rarely that. Rando racing would be fine.

Also all skiing is stupid, you're strapping big ass wooden planks to your feet and sliding down snow ferchristsakes.

Buster is right, they should randomly race to the south pole from say Cuba. Think of the panty waving to be had.

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Every turn I make on snow is a sign of fear

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FIFY

Buddy of mine always says that.

Anyway, what's so wrong with competing with your buddies? Like "Last one down buys the beers". Then flick your friend's heelpiece and go. (Marker MRR reference.)

Don't you guys ever play tennis, or basketball, or whatever? Why not get together and run up the hill and ski down, then drink some beers, and have women throw panties at you??

Just don't get what problem, (if any), there is.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

FIFY

Buddy of mine always says that.

Anyway, what's so wrong with competing with your buddies? Like "Last one down buys the beers". Then flick your friend's heelpiece and go. (Marker Rotomat reference.)

Don't you guys ever play tennis, or basketball, or whatever? Why not get together and run up the hill and ski down, then drink some beers, and have women throw panties at you??

Just don't get what problem, (if any), there is.

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FIFY

Seems like the ski-mo/rando guys doing big objectives (newest Salomon video, Hardrock 100 in winter) or I see uphilling before the lifts open are enjoying themselves and have a good perspective on life in the mountains. More so than many of the core skiers I see on a powder day at the resort.

Dark Star said it best.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

I have absolutely zero desire to do a rando race but also have absolutely zero issue with people wanting to. Lots of friends have done them and said it was a blast.

But can you idiots please stop calling it skimo? Ski mountaineering is climbing up mountains then skiing down them. This inbounds ski running thing is rarely that. Rando racing would be fine.

Also all skiing is stupid, you're strapping big ass wooden planks to your feet and sliding down snow ferchristsakes.

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Dont think of skimo-racing as short for ski mountaineering, just think of it as its own term. Sadly rando racing never caught on and ski mountaineering racing did. Dont expect it to change any time soon. The national and international federations have ski mountaineering in their names, and it will be titled ski mountaineering in the olympics. True that its usually inaccurate, false that its never accurate. I dont say I'm going ski mountaineering when I skin up a groomer (i usually use the super sexy terms like uphilling or skinning). I will call it skimo training though (be that for skimo racing or actual ski mountaineering).

The skills from skimo racing hands down cross over to actual ski mountaineering extremely well. Frankly, when it comes to pulling off significant ski mountaineering goals with your definition of climbing up then skiing down mountains, skiiing is rarely the crux; rather, fitness and efficiency will be a bigger limitation to lofty goals if they are not present. Then adding in basic mountaineering skills/systems/knowledge. Most skiers could become good enough to slide down something like the grand teton on skis with just a few smaller objectives under their belt (might want the requisite mountaineering skills too, but those can be faked/guided). Very few skiers would have the fitness for something like the teton trifecta. In the grand scheme of authenticity of mountain sports that were converted to competition I'd put skimo somewhere in the middle echelon. Way more authentic than gym climbing competition to rock climbing or world cup ice climbing to ice climbing/alpinism, less true to the form than FWT is to big mountain freeskiing or trail running is to trail-run racing. Note that in every one of these competitive variants, IME, the average participants are able to perform in the original activities at a much higher level than the average non-competitive participant.

As suggested by muted, the downside is still that being good at stuff makes it way harder to center your chakra. #namaste

Holy stereotypical boulder douchebag. Case closed.

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Originally Posted by muted

Holy stereotypical boulder douchebag. Case closed.

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I'm sure you are trying to say something profound, but all I can think of when I read your posts is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=323v_FtWqvo

Agree with Dantheman, Dark-star, Ive-seen-diamonds, and others. “Because it’s fun, that’s why” seems more than good enough for me.

Haven’t skimo’ed or rando-raced, personally. I did do the Elk Mountain Traverse one year, and had a great time (though, echoing Dan, it was humbling). I have a bit more experience in ultrarunning, which was as much a cult social scene as anything else.

Also, I remember planning and attempting a speed-hike of the John Muir Trail (didn’t complete it; shin-splints under inconvenient circumstances), and listening to various people tell me “that doesn’t seem like the right way to experience the wilderness”. In fact, having experienced the wilderness in a multitude of different ways, I can report that trailrunning was a perfectly fine way to experience wilderness (until it wasn’t anyway).

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Originally Posted by trogdortheburninator

I'm sure you are trying to say something profound, but all I can think of when I read your posts is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=323v_FtWqvo

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I give you two points for having a sense of humour. You have potential. And maybe you are just trolling me in a very good way.

But of course you have no clue what I'm talking about. Me trog, me no know about thoughts. And anyone who puts down the big bad skimo racer must be slow, right? I'm just jealous, that's the only explanation on why I'm not impressed by you, is the impression I'm getting from ya. Trog ski uphill fast, see trog ski! Bask in Instagram photos of trog! See trog signature!

Just having some fun here, i don't want to hurt trog, but the fact you are from Boulder where fellow trogs are king and tell trog he is a great trog is just too fucking good to not bullshit with you. Trog on.

I have a question for those that participate? Do you call yourself a randoist and is there something called randoism. Some guy in Anchorage likes to talk about himself in those terms. Are those real terms?

I have never heard these terms. Rando racer, skimo racer, randork are all acceptable.

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Originally Posted by muted

............but the fact you are from Boulder........

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most people i meet "from Boulder" are from somewhere else......

Reflecting on this further, I completely understand people "getting" some kinds of racing and not others. Even when I was into the ultra scene, I never quite got the appeal of, say, the Badwater event, even as some of my running friends were doing it. I can't say I've ever had the slightest interest in the whole obstacle race genre, either. And, it's fair to say that most of my ultra buds had zero interest in the kinds of roll-your-own endurance treks that I found more interesting (both the ones I did, and stuff I enjoyed reading about). Still, I see no reason to actively disdain other people's harmless fun.

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Originally Posted by trogdortheburninator

I dont say I'm going ski mountaineering when I skin up a groomer (i usually use the super sexy terms like uphilling or skinning). I will call it skimo training though (be that for skimo racing or actual ski mountaineering).

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kind of a non sequitur in this interesting thread, but i recently started just calling it hiking for a run before the lifts open, and now everyone knows what i do without a unwelcome but unavoidable 5 minute explanation of how it works and what the fun part is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZMAv-snlvU

Rano races and Tom Jones concerts are pretty similar?

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Originally Posted by bobz

Still, I see no reason to actively disdain other people's harmless fun.

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Are you some kind of communist decrying the ways of TGR?

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Originally Posted by muted

I give you two points for having a sense of humour. You have potential. And maybe you are just trolling me in a very good way.

But of course you have no clue what I'm talking about. Me trog, me no know about thoughts. And anyone who puts down the big bad skimo racer must be slow, right? I'm just jealous, that's the only explanation on why I'm not impressed by you, is the impression I'm getting from ya. Trog ski uphill fast, see trog ski! Bask in Instagram photos of trog! See trog signature!

Just having some fun here, i don't want to hurt trog, but the fact you are from Boulder where fellow trogs are king and tell trog he is a great trog is just too fucking good to not bullshit with you. Trog on.

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Mostly trolling. I do bag on obstacle racing and crossfit, so I'm probably just as judgmental as you, just not about skiing.

Clearly, Rando Races at Ski Areas support the new Push For Dignity In Parking.

What with societys decay into immoral parking spots, dysfunctional parking behaviors and inaccurate Parking technologies and data, what better way to initiate a move in a more positive and fresh tarmac mode?

It's well known that open air Toronto is a function of available functional and dignified parking spots. Without these, Canada could fail to continue to be what it is. Similarly for Poughkipsie, enemas and green things in general.

Soon, a new rapport will grow out of that cheesy Farfisa organ sound from the 60s like the Troggs or Al Cooper and weld our corpus dismemberus into a more well ordered parking garage, integrating over the whole of Rando Races At Ski Areas.

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Originally Posted by trogdortheburninator

Mostly trolling. I do bag on obstacle racing and crossfit, so I'm probably just as judgmental as you, just not about skiing.

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Ha. And for the record, all I said (I think) was rando was "a bit weird". I don't really care.

I was definitely ripping on speedclimbing/hiking up peaks though.

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Originally Posted by muted

Ha. And for the record, all I said (I think) was rando was "a bit weird". I don't really care.

I was definitely ripping on speedclimbing/hiking up peaks though.

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Sure, if we read your quote literally that is what you said, but we'd all rather put additional words into your mouth.

So, the more fundamental question: At what speed does a climber/skier/runner stop being in the moment? If Ueli can climb the eiger in 2 hrs, then is he climbing for the "right reasons" when he goes out for a casual 5 hr romp, even though the average elite climber might still take 2-3x that long and multiday efforts are still fairly common. How does a honnold 2 hr nose ascent compare to the more pedestrian NIAD efforts? Speed and alpinism are inextricably linked. If hard aerobic effort disqualifies the purity of the ascent, that rules out a huge number of ascents by even the most zen-like of climbers. If you head out for a grade V-VI climb without bivy gear, you are racing the clock just the same as if you set out in running shorts with a stop watch and an eye on your PR. There is clearly a difference between chasing a grade or a time versus going out for a casual hike in the mountains. I'd argue that the spectrum in between falls in shades of grey rather than black and white.

Here's an article from last winter that goes into some of both the ridiculousness and the fun of the sport. http://utahadvjournal.com/index.php/...ountry-collide

maybe its moar like performance art?

Of all of the Russians who like to machine gun caribou from a helicopter, you'll find some who are bankers and some who are doctors; some who are doing it to fit in and some who are mad at their fathers; some who love the challenge of marksmanship from an aircraft and some who have a deep fear of even-toed ungulates.

I guess if XC skiing is too tame and not masochistic enough why not?