Just replaced my WRG3 tires at almost exactly 60k. Very happy overall, and looking forward to another 60k with the new tires.
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Just replaced my WRG3 tires at almost exactly 60k. Very happy overall, and looking forward to another 60k with the new tires.
How do Hakka 8/9s fare in the last 25% of their tread life? Is the stud effect still useful?
I imagine that studs wear down level with the rubber fairly quickly, and that the rubber compressing is what allows them to "bite' into ice.
... Thom
mostly what happens is the studs all get ripped out of the tire
Erf! I wonder how many "spit studs" are a result of going past the 3mm tread point. It's surely something to be aware of. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
... Thom
I have a 1996 Honda Civic with a nice body kit, wing, and a really great exhaust. Can I run all-seasons on my 20" rims and still make it to Killington on the weekends without disrupting my neon flow?
Should be good to go, but you might wanna check with Greg over at Alpine Zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty.Harry.
Only if stanced. How low can you go?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty.Harry.
check out this hilarious, dramatic vid endorsing the new Hakka 9:
^^Nokian makes absurdly dramatic product videos. Reminds me of this one from comcast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYAOLKSAaBM
Doesnt even show the tire in action..
If you didnt see the last 2 seconds of the commercial, you would have no idea its about tires.
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LOL, reminds me of Mr. Plow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gArU-BAO7Kw
Thought about this again while driving in to work -- my neighborhood is covered with packed snow and ice, but 4 miles away and for the entire rest of the drive, it's all totally dry pavement. My General Altimax Arctics on an AWD car are overkill for this.
Some new (to me) tires for passenger cars, with the 3PMSF mountain snowflake rating, but not winter tire compound -- IOW, these are all-seasons with a tilt towards snow effectiveness:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=231
I could definitely see myself using one of these as a "winter" tire, while keeping a 3-season set of tires too.
Hakka 9's mounted on December 9th. Waiting for real snow now.
My biggest concern was noise on dry pavement (fully expecting better ice performance than my amazing Hakka R2's) and they've passed that test. It took me about a week to get used to the funny sound of studs on dry pavement and now it's part of the background and I'm fine with it.
Mini-test on Loveland Pass last week, but nothing really challenging - seeking out a few icy patches and hitting the brakes (seemed fine).
Handling on dry pavement is too close to call with respect to Hakka R2's - similar feeling on my '08 Outback (squishy in comparison with all weather Nokian WR G3's, but that's to be expected with any Winter tire).
... Thom
Nokian Hakka studded in the winter and Michelin pilot super sport during the summer. The only way to go. Takes 20 min to swap them.
We had Nokian WRG3 tires on my wife's VW Touareg for year round use. I gotta say they were pretty incredible, those tires got us through some scary storms and were still quiet and grippy in summer temps That car is gone and now both our cars (GTI and Alltrack wagon) wear General Articmax winter tires. Comparing the Nokian "all weathers" with snows is difficult - the all weather tires are just as good in the winter as the dedicated snows. The only rub the with Nokians was the price and the shorter than expected tread life.
I don't doubt that this combo provides great performance in winter, and great performance in summer. The problem is what to do about the shoulder seasons? Early-fall snowstorm while still on PSS? Or swap to studded snows in October, and squirm around in 75* daytime high temps?Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveLarger
I use a so-called "ultra high performance" all-season for my 3-season tire -- cheaper than true summer tires, and won't be terrifying in a freak snowstorm.
My next vehicle will probably be something I can use SUV/truck size tires on, so I probably won't bother with a true winter tire set. Maybe just use a 3PMSF all-terrain and call it good enough.
Yeah, the shoulder seasons are a challenge, and that can encompass 3 months between Fall and Spring. I currently have the Nokian WR G3's for this purpose. I don't know how I'll approach this when the time comes to replace them.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chupacabra
I got incredible life out of my Hakka R2's (37,000 miles, with a LOT of shoulder season abuse). In my experience, the WR G3's are only "OK" in snow when compared with the R2's - very nice for all "weather" tires, but they don't hold a candle to the Hakka R2s.Quote:
Originally Posted by HankScorpio
It's same the old "problem" - once you experience better, you don't go back, whether it's 60mm wide skis or all season tires.
As good as your WR G3s are, I'll bet you'll really love your Arctic Altimax's even more when you get to put them through their paces.
... Thom
This is exactly what I did with my Subie Legacy GT. Shoulder seasons sucked with the OEM summers and winter tire swap, so when they wore out I got Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 UHP all seasons and then swapped them w my winter tires later into the beginning of winter.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chupacabra
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My WR G3’s wore out much faster than I had hoped due to trailer towing, off pavement and AWD.
Based on a local store’s experience with both the WR G3’s quicker wear and Toyo Celsius’ longer wear, I pulled the trigger on the Celsius. I hope they are as versatile as the WR G3s.
Also, hopefully this ‘extended shoulder’ season ends this week. I think tooling around on dedicated snows over the past month would have increased the ‘no snow’ angst.
Happy and Safe Holidays, full of face shots, for all!
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I swap for Nokian Hakkas in October, as that is when it's usually freezing degrees in Norway. And since I drive over a lot of mountain passes, I tend to keep them on to end of April or beginning of May. Depending on the season and what my plans are. November is full winter here anyway, so the putting them on in October isn't really a problem for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chupacabra
In the spring, I do think it's a bit boring to drive the Hakkas all the way to May, as the car is a lot more fun to drive on PSS. If I didn't ski, I would probably swap mid April as in the lower elevations, that will be dry and not freezing.
^^^ Makes sense - where you live (Norway) is much better suited for true winter tires than where I live (the Nevada side of Lake Tahoe).
Would love to hear your thoughts on the Toyos in snow and wet.
I currently have all seasons + performance winters for my car which works well but not having to swap would be awesome for my wife's car as those wheels are a lot bigger. I am also waiting for the tire rack review on these in winter conditions, I really like the look of the verdesteins and they are pretty cheap in big sizes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
I think I have posted in this thread but Nokian rotiiva AT plus tires are amazing for 3 season Plus. They are 90-95% as good as blizzaks except on glare ice. But they handled great on dry pavement too. Not squirmy like a true winter tire. Obviously they are for trucks. I turned a buddy on to them and he hasn't put his blizzaks on yet this year as they do nearly as well but he also does a lot of commuting
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1w235
I'm also going to reduce width 2cm back to the spec'd 235's vs the installed 255's. In theory this should increase snow capability.Quote:
Originally Posted by carlh
Consumer reports rates the Celsius at 64 for both the winter/snows (WR G3's also gets a 64) and all season SUV. The $25/yr for consumer reports is easily worth the cost for their perspective on lots of consumer goods.
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Anyone run those Goodyear Viva 3's? Walmart special, but it's a name brand. Ecopea's don't look ridgy and sipy enough.
I think I'll have to be the guinea pig. They look decent.
Had a set of Blizzak WS80 and had no problems with them. They have great traction in the snow and ice, though sidewalls are a bit too soft. These Bridgestone tires are quiet on pavement also.
Studded winter tires run the gamut from poor to excellent. But even the excellent ones aren't that much better on ice than a good studless winter tire (and there are plenty of winter conditions where a good studless will out-perform the best studded tire). I gave up studs a long time ago due to short life, loudness and poor performance on bare pavement. Studs are good for white-knuckle drivers and beginning snow/ice drivers but rubber technology has come far enough that studs have limited utility for an experienced winter driver. If you need studs to feel safe you probably shouldn't be out there when the roads have ice on them. Studless winter tires offer a surprising amount of black ice grip. I find myself shopping for winter tires that are more biased to bare pavement performance and still find I have all the ice traction I need.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuse
A very over-looked winter tire for those who spend a good portion of the winter on bare/wet roads is the Goodyear WRT Ultra Grip Ice. Ignore the name because there are plenty of winter tires with better ice performance. What sets these tires apart is that, while they are a dedicated winter tire, they don't have the squirm and greasy feeling of typical winter tires. Their wet pavement performance is better than any all-season and they are quiet and have precise steering. Yet in the snow and ice they will outperform the better all seasons by a huge margin. Because they really are a winter tire. Last spring I thought the tread was getting too shallow for another winter so I left them on through the summer. I noticed they don't get as greasy in hot weather as is so typical of winter tires. Last fall winter hit early in the PNW and I've been using them for another winter. While I do notice the lack of tread depth has affected their performance in slushy snow and deep puddles, I'm amazed that they still grip well on black ice and compact snow/ice. Most winter tires would be toast after driving them through the summer. And they are cheap and last a long time. Really good tires for my situation (driving a lot of bare/wet roads and encountering PNW winter storms on the way to ski areas).
Do you have data to back those statements up? The article/study I linked above is the only one I've found, and it's in direct contradiction to what you're saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by AweShuksan
I'll post up anecdotal comments on my new Hakka 9's if we ever get any snow around these parts this Winter.
With what little driving on ice and snow I've done to date this year, it's really tough to compare against my retired Hakka R2's, especially since my recent experience of the R2's is obviously of a worn out tire.
My sense is that they're consistent with the review @auvgeek posted earlier - the 9's being a bit better than the R2s on ice.
The noise is a bit funny, but I got used to it fairly quickly.
... Thom
I don't need data, I've been an active snow/ice driver for over 35 years in my personal vehicles and in work trucks equipped with various types of winter tires. But since you want data, I'll point you back to the study you linked to since it supports many of my claims:Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
1) An excellent studded tire is not that much better on ice than a good studless winter tire.
2) There are plenty of winter conditions in which a good studless winter tire will out perform the best studded tire.
3) Studded tires are noisy
4) Studded tires have short life.
It's important to note that the test you provided used studded tires that were brand new. In my experience, the performance of studded tires falls off VERY quickly with wear and the studs wear very quickly if driven at high speeds on bare pavement. And worn studs will tilt the results more in favor of studless tires because the performance of studless tires does not fall off nearly as quickly as that of worn studs. Even with the testing consisting only of brand new tires, this is one of the conclusions lifted directly from the study you cited. Read the following very carefully and ponder why, after spending thousands of dollars to collect data they came to much the same conclusion that I have:
"Non-studded tyres are also developing rapidly. We are at a point where the difference in grip between the best non-studded tyres and the weakest studded tyres is more or less non-existent, even on an icy road. Even the most die-hard fans of studs should try them out – the results may be surprising."
It's because the data in their study largely supports that conclusion (even with brand new studded tires).
Certainly, if you are ice racing, most, but not all, studded tires will achieve lower lap times, quicker corner speeds and faster acceleration and stopping (if the studs are new). But do you really need to save a few seconds to get to your ski slopes? In all my mountain driving experiences the traffic moves at the speed of the slowest car (unless on a multi-lane highway). Invariably, over half the drivers have all season radials so, from a practical standpoint, any winter tire will put you ahead of the game.
I'm not trying to talk anyone out of getting studs but I am totally comfortable with studless tires in all winter conditions. A driver that tends to get white knuckles anytime there are icy patches or that doesn't have a smooth driving style might like the extra security provided by the best studded tires. But it's going to be time consuming and expensive maintaining those studs in top form. Because if you don't, a good studless tire will start to outperform the worn studded tire. And therein lies the problem. The real world does not run on data from tests of brand new studs. And you better pick your studded tires carefully because a good studless can outperform studded tires in many conditions (even when the studs are brand new).
And with new, unworn studs, you will probably want to spend even more money on a stereo that goes to "11" so you can still hear the music. Yes, the studs will quiet down surprisingly quickly when driven on bare highways and the studs dull and flatten but your ice traction will fall off just as fast. Do you have any DATA on THAT? I don't so I just rely on my more than 35 years of real world experience driving through winter snow/ice storms. Sometimes data is over-rated or even misleading when it comes to real world results.
I second the Goodyear WRT Ultra Grip Ice... I run them on my ‘14 WRX and they are money for a winter tire
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Im going agree with everything AweShuksan says about the Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice. Been running a set for 5 winters on one vehicle. Handle fresh snow and slush very well. Definitely give up a little on true ice to softer squirmy rubbers (like blizzak) but are definitely better on warmer days and on dry roads.Quote:
Originally Posted by AweShuksan
If I was an urban dweller, predominantly driving dry roads and with a commute to the mountains this would be very high on my list for winter rubber.
Looks like nokian has a new version of its passenger all weather tire out. Will consider these for the wagon
https://www.nokiantires.com/all-weat.../nokian-wr-g4/
I have a set of the studless Hakkapeliitta R2s on another vehicle and they perform exquisitely.
That tire looks perfect for my use. I'd run it as a winter tire, and UHP all-seasons for the other 3 seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by klauss
Still tooling around Reno/Tahoe on Altimax Arctics, in 45* temps and drizzle... complete waste of a winter tire right now.
These Goodyears are appealing to me given 90% of my winter driving is on dry/wet pavement (Vancouver, BC with frequent trips to Whistler). My General Altimax Arctics are on their last legs with maybe 5-6mm depth but it's their 7th winter. They have served me well.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
Thanks Mang.Quote:
Originally Posted by AweShuksan
Your insight is much appreciated [emoji106]
Please go buy some all seasons so it will start snowing.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chupacabra
IME the difference between a good studded tire and a good non-studded tire is about 10-30mph. You can also overtake slowpokes in snowstorms with a lot more confidence. You don't get stuck as much after being plowed in. It's great for lightweight cars. Doing donuts in parking lots is a lot easier too, ha.Quote:
Originally Posted by AweShuksan
You have a big truck and want to stop on ice with studs? Not gonna make a big difference at higher speeds is my guess with all that weight, but I don't own a truck.
Going from non-studs to studs is a huge difference for some vehicles, and for drivers that don't sit in the slow lane. It's not for just racers, it's for people who encounter ice A LOT in colder, windy, frigid climates. Ever drive through Island Park in the middle of winter at night? Ever do it over and over? The wind whips snow into an endless amount of black ice, studs are the difference between a white knuckle endless drive and a nice commute.