Saw a kindle reader on i90 a few weeks back.
Printable View
If no one sees it, did it happen?;)
But as both a driver and a sometimes city cyclist as long as you do what's in bold I don't see an issue.
It's when people don't do that it's an obvious issue and fucking insanely selfish and retarded. I almost took out a girl a few months back in what would have been a horrific accident. It was 5:30am on a Saturday morning and I was going 40mph (5mph over SL) north on a one way coming up to a major intersection (my one lane one way to a three lane one way). I had a green light and was cruising along, next thing I know this dumbass was hauling along on her fixie down the three lane one way (which is part of the other complaint I had earlier), plows through her red light at the intersection without even glancing my way or with even a hint of slowing down. I was literally 2 seconds from being in a Faces of Death scene.
That alone gave me nightmares for a day or two. All the while her dumbass had no idea her life was 2 seconds away from being ended.
clearly, the cyclists were stupid or ignorant or both
its an unmarked intersection
there is no legal right identified
the geometry is such that it acts like a T but isn't really a T
so, while you can argue right of way on the "straightaway", someone else can argue it's an unmarked intersection and all the rights and responsibilities for safe passage through apply
but arguing it doesn't help anyone after an incident, right?
Interesting timing of this thread and an email from People for Bikes President, Tim Blumenthal in my inbox this morning:
"I’ve never ridden a high-wheeler. I’ve never played bicycle soccer. I’ve never hucked seaside village rooftops like trials master Danny MacAskill. But I’ve enjoyed countless types of cycling experiences and revered them all. Many of my best rides have been on the road. But today—like so many people who bike—I am seriously concerned about the future of the road riding experience, particularly the challenges of navigating among angry and distracted drivers.
I think I understand the roots of angry driving. The U.S. population is growing by more than 2.5 million people per year. More places are getting crowded and, of course, that includes most roads. Crowding increases stress and frustration, and that fuels anger. U.S. car and truck sales hit an all-time high in 2015—a year in which Americans drove more miles than ever before.
News of bike fatalities travels faster and every bulletin is unnerving. Even if bike deaths on the road aren’t significantly increasing (either as a raw number or percentage of trips), riding on the road today feels more dangerous. Forty-six states have passed anti-texting laws that prohibit typing while driving. Nevertheless, I frequently see people breaking this law. Whether I’m on a bike or in a car, at every red light I notice just about everyone behind the wheel looking down. When the light turns green, many don’t put their phones aside.
Ironically, the phone distraction phenomenon seems to be spreading quickly to two wheels. Have you noticed? I’m not sure if these riders are reading texts or playing Pokémon Go (or both), but so many people I encounter on multi-use paths clearly aren’t focused on the pavement ahead.
I doubt distracted, texting and angry driving are going away soon. I have trouble imagining that law enforcement resources will be fundamentally reallocated to monitor and ticket these behaviors.
So what are the solutions? How do we make riding on the road safer? This is a crucial question with no one, easy answer.
PeopleForBikes will continue to focus on improving bike infrastructure and creating safe, seamless networks. In the places where these networks have already been built, more people bike and fewer people are injured or killed in crashes. We will continue to encourage people to bike responsibly and predictably.
Meanwhile, here are six other suggestions:
-The industry focus on improving rider visibility is an important development that will help a lot if people who bike embrace it.
-Speed limits in town need to be lowered. The difference between 20 miles per hour and 35 mph is huge for the safety of kids and adults, on foot, on bike and in cars. Lower speeds make places quieter and more appealing for everyone. We just need to accept that driving inside city limits on most (but not all) roads is going to take a little longer. The tradeoffs are more than worth it.
-Keep pushing car companies to produce technology that makes steering and texting at the same time impossible. This can be done.
-Keep developing autonomous vehicles. Computers that guide cars and trucks will never be impaired, distracted or angry. -Automated cars should also dramatically reduce the need for private vehicle ownership and that could cut our need for on-street parking. Autonomous vehicles should create more space and enhance safety for everyone.
-Root for GoPro and all makers of on-board cameras. When aggressive, reckless driving (or any type of activity) is captured on video, people who are guilty will be found guilty and will go to jail. This can become an effective deterrent. Some people won’t like it: tough.
-Adapt best practices from the nations that do a better job of protecting bike riders and pedestrians. That’s the Netherlands, Denmark and a few other western European nations. Yes, they are smaller, more crowded countries than the U.S., but they have spent the last 40 years developing best practices for moving people and moving goods. We can learn a lot from them.
Americans make close to five billion bike trips per year. That’s an average of 14 million rides per day—many more than that on a warm-weather weekend. We need to eliminate the crashes that can be avoided…and that’s most of them.
We can’t do this alone, but we can do this. All road users are in this together."
Interesting that the suggested behavioral changes in the cited email all have to do with changing the habits of automobile operators and, outside of what color clothes you wear as a cyclist, none of the behaviors address the cyclists who don't follow good protocol. Good luck with that.
Any time you leave your lane of traffic, it is your responsibility to yield or make sure it is safe to leave your lane. Her lane continues on and she never leaves her lane... but yeah, when you're frame is broken and your skeleton has many missing parts, it doesn't really matter. On moto's and bikes, I yield to the car.
Get bent, dickhead.
I do everything I can NOT to get hit. Sometimes that involves riding out in traffic so I can be more easily seen and stupid fucks don't try and take turns in front of me. But I'm not going to stop riding bikes.
I'm a sales rep, I spend most days driving between accounts all over the Wasatch Front and the amount of utterly terrible, inept, dangerous, selfish, entitled driving I see all day every day would boggle your mind - or maybe not - we're all getting disturbingly conditioned to shitty driving - I'm not reading comment sections in every article about a fatal auto wreck full of victim blaming, all encompassing hyperbole and proposals for more driver education or increased enforcement. Its difficult for me to sympathize with drivers bitching about cyclists "in the way". We're talking about seconds of delay out of lifetimes increasingly flooded with worthless distractions and we're talking about human lives. I understand there are some bad apples and people riding in stupid spots like that busy shoulderless canyon road described earlier, but the antagonism and hyperbole used against cyclists in comments sections and the shit like you wrote above is horrifying and only further poisons the well.
I'm very picky about where and when I ride on the road, I try to pick signed bike routes, bike lanes, wide shoulders and quiet roads but I sure as shit will take the lane when I feel necessary for safety and visibility. The vast majority of cyclists I see, both recreational and transportation-minded, are riding safely and well within the rules of the road.
KQ on your hypo:
1. What a disaster of an intersection. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody is killed there, or has been killed.
2. It should be a roundabout, as has been said.
3. I was just chatting with the sheriff lieutenant I work with and showed it to him. He said that, even without signage, the SB traffic on Sweagle Road should be yielding to crosstraffic and if he had been investigating a hypothetical accident in your scenario, he would've found the cyclists at fault.
4. We looked at it in Google Streetview and there actually is a yield sign for SB traffic turning WB. There should also be one for SB traffic heading EB at the bottom right corner of the island.
So, yes, you likely had the right of way and would not have been at fault in an accident. As a county dentist though, if that was my county, I'd be concerned about liability for the lack of signage. (Seriously.) A disaster waiting to happen.
Also, what JoeTron said. I recently picked up road biking after resisting for years for safety reasons. Of mountain biking, BC skiing, rock climbing, etc., road biking is easily the most dangerous thing I do. And I like to think I'm a courteous cyclist.
pdx is a combo idiot entitled drivers and bigger idiot entitled cyclists. they would be equal idiots but one is encased in steel.
Seriously, no beef, I was just clarifying that they had a duty to make sure they could leave they're lane safely, the whole T intersection thing doesn't really matter in this instance because they're turning from one road to another. I shoulda included something cool like this :vax:
I wouldn't say the vast majority of cyclists are following good protocol, considering poor protocol is what sparked this thread. In reading many of the comments, claiming that the vast majority follow good protocol is a stretch. Clearly, though, the author of the referenced emails feels as you do and that the blame is entirely on those driving cars. I don't agree and I'm a cyclist so my bias isn't to the opposite, just educated observation. Regardless, that wasn't my point. The issue is that any politicians, in most cities, that would pursue some of the fixes noted would have the automotive public to deal with. That's a much larger voting block. A prime example is the 20 mph speed limit in lieu of 35 mph, all to protect the few riders on streets where bikes really shouldn't be. The example I'm thinking of is my daily commute. There are 2 or 3 bike commuters I see pretty regularly going to work. They're riding on a 4 lane (2 each direction) street without a bike lane, 35 mph. Is the suggestion that the street should be 20 mph to accommodate those riders? If such a suggestion were to be implemented, the drivers in this city would revolt, big time. It's simply a matter of numbers. I don't see getting critical mass to implement the suggestions of the writer of the email and, hence, my 'good luck with that' comment.
we live in our own bubble in portland...I know that
but the needle does move occasionally in favor of protecting pedestrians and cyclists as the at-risk population
http://www.portlandmercury.com/news/...nd-pedestrians
http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/u...phic-small.jpg
Interesting and thanks for the input. I don't drive Swegle, just not on my way anywhere so I guess I didn't notice the WB yield sign for traffic entering Stoval but I know there wasn't one EB because after I had to slam on the brakes and stop (good thing I didn't have a heavy load in my truck!) and the two women flipped me off and yelled at me I checked for a sign all the while scratching my head because, well, I was going straight and it didn't make sense that they crossed my lane in front of me without hesitation. I really should bring it up with the county.
I often wondered if later on they realized exactly what had happened or if they just went on believing that I was an asshole driver who tried to kill them.
i should clarify that most of my cyclist/driver interactions as either party occur in the nw hills/forest park area, which is full two and four wheel assholes.
Spokane's getting better, too with more bike-friendly streets, etc. but still, there are main car commute arterials that cyclists should avoid but don't. Some get all up in arms over the drivers on these streets which only further exacerbates the animosity between the two user groups with drivers then getting more upset at cyclists. And so the circle goes. I've gotten into plenty of debates with non-cycling drivers over similar issues, especially when some cyclist gets hit by a car and the drivers start railing about how bikes should be ridden on the sidewalk, shit like that. Stupid. But, it's a two way street (pardon the pun) when it comes to fault. The comment from someone (Buster?) about just trying to not be an asshole goes both ways. If both camps made some effort to quit being dickheads on the road, pay attention to what they're doing, and give each other the courtesy of a buffer, things would go much better. In the meantime, we need to continue to work on getting access established in such a way that both kinds of vehicles can coexist.
I've ridden thousands of road miles, road in peltons big and small, and I can assure you there are plenty of idiot cyclists, but they pale in comparison to the number of driver who are really, really massive assholes. I don't agree with what the woman did, but I am not surprised considering the number of times I have been buzzed and honked at by drivers just for the fun of trying to scare the shit out of cyclists. It has happened to me countless times, I am sure aware and don't hog lanes, I do ride inches for the dirt, and do everything I can not to impede traffic, and the fuckers still do it.
I am a bike Nazi when it comes to policing a group ride and will give people shit for blowing stops signs if there is traffic and that sort of thing, but I do get really tired of the elite attitude motorist have, and it far exceeds the elite attitude of even the douchyest cyclist.
This is why I ride dirt
Impossible. There's some real asshole drivers out there, we all see them whether we're on bikes or in cars. But the douchiest cyclist will always be a bigger douche than a motorist because he carries with him an air of smugness that comes with riding a zero emissions form of transportation, and not some death machine that is fueled by global wars and oppression and built on the backs of a non-privileged class, the sales of which are propped up by a corrupt and unfair banking system designed for and by the 1%.
You can't out-douche that guy.
Unless his like minded buddy has a t shirt of Che riding a fixie. Then that guy has been out-douched.
Just roll coal. they like that.
Who cares, deaths by cyclists is a pink unicorn. Cars kill and people have no respect for anything when they get behind the wheel. And I'm coming at this as a driver right now, not a cyclist. I can't believe how aggressive stupid fucks are with a couple thousand pounds and a piece of glass between them and the rest of the world.
Ok... Maybe channeling my inner cyclist here.
Do we have a list going of users that are shitbag cyclists? I want names
This thread requires....
Attachment 186835
Most states do have some version of this WA law that google found in 2 seconds which prohibits driving slowly enough to impede traffic. I don't see an exemption for bikes. http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.425
Whatever you do, don't read the comments.
A fine sample:
"Psycholists are just oh so special, rules are for others, never for them.
They’re righteous holy ones who are cutting down on carbon footprints, y’see?
They look oh so splendid in their ‘look at me!’ costumes, the sweep-back spaceman hats, the bug-eye goggles and those spandex body stockings; aren’t they just swell!
And as far as they’re concerned, citizens who are driving because they have to be someplace can just drop dead.
Psycholists have earned every bit of the rotten reputation they own.
Prediction: should Trump actually beat the vote-stealing and become president, this will stop.
The psycholists are being encouraged from on high to ‘get out there and get their faces’.
And drivers caught on to the psycholists’ penchant for setting them up, and many cars now carry dash-cams to record the antagonistic, reckless behavior of these leftist emotional problem children"
Apparently this was on the front page of the Druge Report
The "exemption" is in the section on vulnerable users of a public way, also in most state statutes. That section will also talk about riding to the right and how/when to pass.
[edit] Well, apparently, only 9 states have vulnerable road user laws. But the stay right and passing bit is consistent across states