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Question (Powtron): Are out of stock 2016 skis "done" for the year? I'm thinking 179 Steeple 102 in particular. Much as I'm lusting after a 184/186 Goat, the skinny Steeple represents a bigger hole in my quiver, and I (think) I'm wanting the RES profile which won't be available in next year's 98.
Thanks,
Thom
http://www.backcountryfreeskier.com/...FU1bfgodfUoF_gQuote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
And any more feedback/input/commentary on the upcoming Wren 88?
Thanks! I didn't even think of going outside the ON3P website. Now ... I have to make a decision.
... Thom
Needs a stiffer tail ;)... but then it loses the manueverabilityQuote:
Originally Posted by PowTron
Got on the 184 Wrens and the 186 K108s over last weekend. 240#, strong, fat, tall, shitty skier. Was not testing in ideal conditions, and probably need the wren a size up, but some quick takeaways:
The wren is surprisingly manageable at low speeds and when being hackish. It doesn't come alive until you get some pace and it's best to drive the tips, but it doesn't kick your ass when you get lazy. Feels a little more likely to get kicked around by chunks of stuff than my 191 BGs, but still confidence inspiring. It was raining on sticky snow, so ... weird conditions.
Got on the K108s the next day after the rained on snow crusted over and got a bit of a dusting on top of it. It was a bit jarring after a few seasons on the BGs and it took me a few runs to get a feel. Definitely not a charger, but sturdy enough after I adjusted and great fun. Skied further back from where I skied the wrens and bgs.
The Kartel 116 is absolutely amazing. I got mine on everything from hardpack groomer, dust on crust, knee deep PNW pow, and skied out crud. No speed limit, and amazingly instinctive in the air. Even when the air is not expected. My only complaint with the Caylors was that there was almost too much float in the tail leading to the front end to sink if you got too far forward. This seems to have been adressed. And the new tip shape, and splay completely dices the crud.
I was looking for a bit of a change after being on BG's for so long. Completely happy.
I have been transitioning to Billy Goats 191 as my daily driver as my supply of Lhasa Pows has dwindled and can't be replaced. I had an easy transition from Lhasa to BG and find the BG with RES might be the perfect ski for people that loved the Lhasa's and can now no longer get them. Same crud busting dampness at mach any speed. Can handle with control the boiler plate steep start zones and then give you the most pleasurable experience as you progress into the deep blower pow that awaits a little lower. Good weight to bust through sun and wind crust for mornings after, although nothing is perfect in that scenario. Not hooky unless you forget to lock in ski mode from walk (DOH!) I am skiing inbounds with Jesters and Dynafit Ones. I have yet to finish off my last pair of Lhasa fats for out of bounds which I have been running with Dynafit bindings and Dynafit Ones. I have not tried the 189s but 191 has been good to me. So, I've got my Lhasa replacements with BG
YEP...I feel you on that. Really digging my Kartel 116's :)Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiberAwptik
Attachment 178120
Good to hear, Mike! Keep on loving those 191.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiCol
They absolutely RAIL hard snow and groomers. I am still kind of in shock over what came out with this ski. I need more time on it, though in variable snow...but after spending many days on the Wren 98 and 108 I am very, VERY happy with how the new rocker profile has turned out.Quote:
Originally Posted by dschane
How do the kartel 116's compare to the Jeffrey 114? My 186 Grizzlycorn Jeffreys 114's were broken in a gondola accident this past weekend and I'm in need of a replacement. I don't really have anything to ski until I get new ones, but I'm also considering holding out for the kartel 116's if people like them more.
I own both pairs for myself and will keep both.. While similar, the K116's updated taper and tip and tail shape make it a little more smeary and floaty in powder while the J114 is a little better on groomers and harder snow. Variances in the new rocker profile vs the current J114 and Kartel series also makes this more apparent on the feet. I will tour on the K116 and still ski my J114 inbounds most of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by alect47
Both will be good in the deep, but I do prefer the K116 in softer snow more than the J114 (and that was our goal).
edit: Also, that sucks that the gondola destroyed your infinity magic GCs!
Hmm, is the K116 noticeably lighter than the J114? Any comparison on how they do in chopped up/crud?
Thanks
They are the same weight (slightly wider, but then tapered more = same overall weight). Same construction, same type of glass and carbon, etc. They have the same feeling as the J114 in crud and chop, but with that new tip and rocker shape I do think it slices and dices a little better than the J114 through junk snow.Quote:
Originally Posted by alect47
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiberAwptik
Could you do more of a Kt116 and a bg comparison?
Also anybody have any insight on owning both the kt116 and the kt108, would that be too much overlap? (i love overlap)
Powtron or anyone else game to compare the Wren 98/102? Was going to pick up some 98s next year, but the 102s on sale are tempting.
I got on the 108s, found them very friendly. Read comments about the 102 being a very different ski than wren's of old and the 98 being more true to form.
What makes a better a addition to a 186 BG, 186 Wren 112 or 191 Jeff 114?
6.5' and 200lbs, fairly aggressive skier, but not a big hucker. I don't ski switch or park. Mostly resort conditions, steeps, bumps, pow.
I have narrower skis for hard snow conditions, so thinking more soft snow, chop, crud. Want to take advantage of end of season deals on the old stuff..
^^ The 186 BG and 186 Wren 112 is a nice combo. BG is strictly powder, everything else (except groomer only skiing or total shit off piste) I use the 112.
If you ski on the front of your skis, Wren. If you ski centered, Jeff114.
But FWIW, both myself and cooks own Wrens and BGs, and another friend owns Jeff114s, and all of us have skied each others skis in varying conditions, and all of us agree that the BG is the best soft chop/crud ski of the three. It's when things get firmer that the Wren or Jeff114 start to shine.
I'm really digging my 186 BG so far (just 2 days), but there are times in the chop when I could use a little more top end. The tips do feel a little short to me.
I suppose that points me towards the Wren, or the 191/189 BG. Anyone want to trade their 191 for 186?
At 6'5" / 200lb, does it just seem like you should be on the 191/189 instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada29er
Aw ... yer just lobbying to get a good deal on his skis :D (me: 5'9" / 170 Lbs. - breathlessly waiting on delivery of my 184's).Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewpringle
Cheers,
Thom
Haha--good eye, but I'm 6'4" / 190lb, so was coming from a pref for longer skis (currently on 193 Bodacious).Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
189 Billy Goat and 186 Kartel 108 make a damn fine quiver IMO...
Absolutely! The problem is finding a pair of 191s, especially ones that aren't swiss cheese. I took what I could find when it popped up. Still a very nice ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewpringle
Powtron, will there be any demo days north of the border in the Whistler/Vancouver area?
Ok, I'll bite. Haven't seen many words about the K108.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
Let's pretend I already have a 191 BG. Bring that out on days where I'll see soft snow.
For all other days - park, bumps, groomers, fuck around skiing with friends who aren't good skiers yet, etc...
Why is the k108 the perfect compliment to it? How is it different or better than the K106.
Put another way - should I try to get a 186 k106 on sale or pay retail for a 186 K108?
No clue, never skied the 106, but this is a 16/17 thread.
The 108 had a really nice smooth turn initiation and as clean an edge grip as any other 105-110mm ski. Smooth and comfortable in a variety of turn sizes. The ON3P guys mentioned something about a new more gradual rocker profile or something along those lines between the K108 and K106.
Anybody have any insight on owning both the kt116 and the kt108, would that be too much overlap?
I have the Jeffrey 114 and the Kartel 106 (one a 2014 ski, one a 2015 ski). Same 8mm delta in width that you are looking at. Having not skied the new Kartel series, I say go for it. I use these skis in different ways on different days. New snow, soft snow, go with the 114. Hasn't snowed in a few days, go with the 106. Note, I ski at Crested Butte where we have not had the best year and really dig this combo. I can see on a good eyar not skiing the 106 much........that is a good thing, as it means it snowed. Again, not a perfect comparison, but a pretty good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
Bottom line, just do it!
Thanks!
Just to add to the BG stoke, skied my new 186 13/14s for a week in Whistler a few weeks ago. (6,1/ 170, mounted on the line with fks 140s)
Ski absolutely kills it in pretty much all conditions.
They are super easy to ski, very intuitive, I actually dont think they are as bad on groomers as others on here say. Considering the large turn radius you need some speed, but if it is soft or slushy they can make any type of turn you want, very easy to "slarve" around if you put a tiny bit of effort into it.
Had a super fun time night skiing in the rain at cypress on them. As long as it is soft you can push them very hard. Great landing platforms.
Skied quite a few late afternoon park laps on them, and they spin quite well for being such a large ski. Takes getting used too, but had fun in the large jump line on blackcomb.
In the soft they are great, very pivoty and fun. But it is when it gets more tracked out that they really shine if you ask me. When everyone else is complaining about it being tracked out, you're still having the time of your life. They just truck through it all.
Definitely a huge change from the old 11/12's i had.
So, has anybody skied the Steeple 108 yet?
Currently the middle of my inbounds quiver is a pair of 189 BC Atris, and the middle of the touring quiver is a pair of 190 Praxis BCs.
The Atris does not impress me that much. They are fine, but too much tail for my liking. The same can be said for the BCs, although I like them a lot more.
Also have 102 Wrens and 186 Billygoats....love both.
Can the 108 Steeple replace both the Atris and the BCs?
March......and already rethinking next years quiver.......jeeez.
Not this season, unfortunately. One of our goals is to make sure we get up there one way or another next year, though :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ.
Yep...the 108 has a longer rocker arc and also has less tail rocker than the current 106.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
Nope. The K116 has a different tip shape, tip and tail taper, and flex than the 108. They actually ski quite different. K116 better in soft snow, K108 better on every day and groomers/park.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
I sorta smothered the crew at the ON3P demo booth throughout the Hoodoo demo day last weekend.
I’m 5’11” 170lb and currently have 186 Billy Goats, 184 Steeple 102 (veneer), 186 Tychoon, and 176 Tychoon Tour. I recently sold a pair of 186 Vicik since they occasionally beat me up, while the Tychoon skis more effortless and does most things I like about the Vicik. Mostly I ski the Steeple 102 or Billy Goat. I have yet to ski any generation of Wren 112, FYI.
I was most curious about the new Wrenegade 88, 98, & 108 so I skied all three widths in the 184 lengths. Starting with the Wren 88 on morning hardpack I thought it totally kicked ass. This ski is very stiff and rips a stable yet agile line at any speed. I liked the turning radius and the tails release turns way more predictably than the Tychoon or Vicik. Actually, all three of the new Wren widths release turns smoother and seem to drive through variable crud better than Tychoon or Vicik. The Wren 98 felt similar to the dampness and stability of the Vicik while being more maneuverable like the Tychoon. The Wren 108 is an excellent and confidence inspiring charger on both hardback and soft chop, but I generally prefer the Billy Goat feel for most depths of soft snow types. Of the new Wren series I liked the Wren 88 and Wren 108 both better than the Wren 98, go figure.
I briefly skied the new Billy Goat, but the snow had softened up to the point of sticky grabby goop, so it didn’t tell me much about how different they may be than my 13/14 Goats.
The surprise favorite for me was the Kartel 108 (186) near the end of the day. I had never skied any of the Kartel series since I’m typically a forward stance directional skier and figured these skis were more center stance oriented and likely not my bag. I ripped harder and had more fun on the Kartel 108 than on any other skis that day. They were immediately intuitive and although I noticed the slightly more upright stance they suggested, I could easily lean into the ski and go from hardpack to sticky spring snow and then through afternoon weekend resort chop with ease. The running length and rocker profile felt totally dialed. With a hole in my quiver between Steeple 102 and Billy Goat (116), there is potential for a Kartel 108 in my future. Yup, the Kartel 108 and Wren 88 won me over. I’m ON3P infected. Please send help.
Man, now I'm really curious how the new K108 compares to the old Jeffrey (110).
Same deal as other things I've posted. Lower tail rocker (35cm-ish vs 40.5cm=ish), better taper and sidecut transition, little bit more of a dialed flex. Similar but upgraded for the 33rd century time travelers out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
Like a slightly more directional, smoother turning J110.
Good info! Thanks for sharing.Quote:
Originally Posted by gepmeow
Great comments. Thanks! I too had overlooked the Kartel's for the same reason you did. It's something to consider next year (just picked up the demo 184 BG's to finish off this season - delivery next week).Quote:
Originally Posted by gepmeow
Cheers,
Thom