Womens World Cup Soccer

Alex Morgan got hammered on that pk call. Converted! Ha

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Originally Posted by AKbruin

FIFA picked them. Here's the justification:



In other words, FIFA arranged the seedings to make more money, which, while shitty, isn't surprising. I still don't completely understand why having top-seeded teams face each other early is likely to increase viewership though.

On a related note, I've been extremely disappointed with the media coverage. I don't get the games on my cable package and the general coverage on the mainstream outlets has been weak.

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So FIFA is just confirming once again that it's all about the bucks.

that was a fun game to watch. I kept waiting for Rapinoe to decide that she was going to destroy Maier.

Nice!!!
Let's hear it for the White, Black and Highlighter!!!!!
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...psmurwxdpw.jpg

Great game!

I like our odds when the US beats Germany and moves on to take on Japan.😜

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Originally Posted by boarddad

Since your cable provider doesn't carry the games, I doubt this will work but worth a shot. Download the "Fox Sports Go" app. All of the games are streamed there, but you do have to log in with your cable provider info (Verizon FiOS FTW!).

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The last 2 USA games have been on regular Fox.

GREAT game by the ladies. Looked so strong.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I like our odds when the US beats Germany and moves on to take on Japan.😜

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Look for Japan to fight hard until US scores with a couple huge bombs late in the game.

That second goal was sweet. Can't believe the Germans missed a PK.

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Originally Posted by boarddad

Since your cable provider doesn't carry the games, I doubt this will work but worth a shot. Download the "Fox Sports Go" app. All of the games are streamed there, but you do have to log in with your cable provider info (Verizon FiOS FTW!).

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Thanks man! I was able to watch some of the games at work. Now it seems to be on normal Fox.

Tomorrow's match between England and Japan will be on FS1. :(

The women play about 6 times harder then the men. Much better watching. The refereeing is equal(ly bad).

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Originally Posted by old goat

The women play about 6 times harder then the men. Much better watching.

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This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read.

Bummer about the shitty reffing last night. Would have been a much different game if Johnston had been sent off and the US got a free kick instead of a pk. 2nd goal was a beaut though.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

Bummer about the shitty reffing last night. Would have been a much different game if Johnston had been sent off and the US got a free kick instead of a pk. 2nd goal was a beaut though.

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Yeah, it was nice to get that second goal, since the first was kind of a bad call in order to get that pk. But to your point, the second may not have happened if the red card had come out.

Its time to get those critical calls correct in order to keep the game fair. Germans must be bullshit right now. Although, for the most part I think the US outplayed the Germans.

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Originally Posted by strawjack

Yeah, it was nice to get that second goal, since the first was kind of a bad call in order to get that pk.

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People keep saying this, but I watched it and thought the call was right. I assume you're joinin gthose who claim the foul was not in the penalty area, and should have been a direct free kick instead of a PK. But the laws of the game say you give the PK if "the offence" is "committed by a player inside his own penalty area irrespective of the position of the ball." It's the place where the offending conduct occurred that matters. In this case, I think the conduct, whether you call it blocking or charging, occurred literally on the penalty area line. Since in soccer lines are considered to be a part of the area they enclose, I think the call was either right, or so close that it can't be called "bad."

I agree. And I'm not being a homer here, we discussed this at length during the game. It's either an obstruction type call so that there would be an indirect kick, or it's what happened, (and we got to see slow motion replays).

For "kicks" I watched the Morgan call again, and the German player ran right in front of her and into her with no intention of going after the ball. Here's a vine I can't embed:
https://vine.co/v/e1BuVTDau3I

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Originally Posted by Jamespio

People keep saying this, but I watched it and thought the call was right. I assume you're joinin gthose who claim the foul was not in the penalty area, and should have been a direct free kick instead of a PK. But the laws of the game say you give the PK if "the offence" is "committed by a player inside his own penalty area irrespective of the position of the ball." It's the place where the offending conduct occurred that matters. In this case, I think the conduct, whether you call it blocking or charging, occurred literally on the penalty area line. Since in soccer lines are considered to be a part of the area they enclose, I think the call was either right, or so close that it can't be called "bad."

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I'm just going by what the 'rules guy' said on the broadcast after the fact. I don't really know, but he is the professional so I'm going with his analysis.

Maybe I've just been hanging out with too many Euros, but I thought the game was called fairly. Frankly the "what if" discussion might be fun over a couple of beers, but it really has no place in soccer (sorry, football). Reason being, the rules state that you can award a card for a series of fouls, and the foul that gets the card does not have to be all that egregious. That's what happened to Rapinoe. Likewise, if the team is fouling one player in particular, the referee can at any time decide he/she has had enough and card the last player to foul. It could be the first time that particular player commits the foul and the foul doesn't have to be all that bad. The point is, the referee is taking control of the game and stopping the string of fouls. How could something like replay ever figure in to that?

So how does that figure in to yesterday's game? How on earth do you second guess a referee's decision to award a yellow vs. red card? You weren't on the pitch and don't know the tenor of play. Was the German player really unimpeded to the goal? She still has to face freaking Hope Solo - that's not a gimme. If you want to talk about what ifs, what if she would have made the PK? She didn't, that's soccer.

Frankly it drives me nuts that they throw to the "expert" to second guess the calls on the field. That's disrespectful to the referee and yes, the game. It's like we are all too stupid to interpret the game on our own. That may have been true 20 years ago but not anymore.

It's true that the defender was closer to the area than the US forward, but the infraction occurs at the position of the fouled player, not the other way around. Definitely not a pk.

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Originally Posted by boarddad

Frankly it drives me nuts that they throw to the "expert" to second guess the calls on the field. That's disrespectful to the referee and yes, the game. It's like we are all too stupid to interpret the game on our own. That may have been true 20 years ago but not anymore.

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Comical, especially for a US audience. First off, the refs routinely make bad calls. Second, even informed audiences sometimes need an explanation of why a call was made. Third, those two things often go hand in hand, where a bad call is made and the right call is worth explaining, which is exactly what happened here. I completely disagree with the 1920's philosophy that the game only exists as the ref calls it. We know better today and if you want to be respectful to the game, we'll provide the tools required for the refs to get the calls right.

Jeff Van Gundy and family host USWNT members.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

It's true that the defender was closer to the area than the US forward, but the infraction occurs at the position of the fouled player, not the other way around. Definitely not a pk.

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Poinjt me to the Laws of the Game. Because Law 12 says it's a PK where "one of the listed offences is committed by a player inside his own penalty area irrespective of the position of the ball." So, the rules don't say "at the position of the fouled player" that I've seen. Where are you reading differently?

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Originally Posted by Jamespio

Poinjt me to the Laws of the Game. Because Law 12 says it's a PK where "one of the listed offences is committed by a player inside his own penalty area irrespective of the position of the ball." So, the rules don't say "at the position of the fouled player" that I've seen. Where are you reading differently?

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Not sure if this is the official language, but it summarizes my understanding of the issue:

"Penalty Kick is defined in 18-1-bb as A kick awarded to a team because an opponent was charged with a direct free kick offense within his/her own penalty area. This definition is reinforced in Rule 14-1-1 that indicates: A penalty kick shall be awarded when a foul which ordinarily results in the awarding of a direct free kick, occurs within the offending team’s penalty area.

Thus, a penalty kick can only occur if a direct free kick offense occurs. As provided in definition 18-1-m, a rule infraction that results in a free kick is called a Foul, thus a Penalty Kick results from a foul inside the penalty area that would if outside the penalty area result in a direct kick being given to the opponent.

The fouls resulting in a direct kick are listed in Rule 13-2-1. They are: a. a player spits at, kicks, strikes, attempts to kick or strike, or jumps at an opponent; b. a player trips or attempts to trip an opponent; c. a goalkeeper attempts to strike, strikes or pushes an opponent with the ball; d. a player other than the goalkeeper in his/her own penalty area, deliberately handles the ball; e. a player pushes an opponent with the hand(s) or arm(s) extended from the body; f. a player holds an opponent; g. a player charges an opponent in a dangerous or reckless manner, or uses excessive force; and h. a player charges an opponent in a dangerous or reckless manner while the opponent has both feet off the ground."

All the statements in bold type reference the offense occurring at the position of the opponent. If the opponent is outside the box, I don't believe you can correctly award a PK. All that being said, I'm not a FIFA ref. Could be wrong, but this is always how I've understood it.

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Originally Posted by old goat

The women play about 6 times harder then the men. Much better watching. The refereeing is equal(ly bad).

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read.

Bummer about the shitty reffing last night. Would have been a much different game if Johnston had been sent off and the US got a free kick instead of a pk. 2nd goal was a beaut though.

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You're right. The women only play 5 times harder.
As far as the reffing--aside from the obvious controversies--yellow vs red card for Johnson and the US PK--, I was thinking more of the first half, when the ref seemed to be calling inconsistenly and allowing the game to start getting out of hand. I thought the head butt on the header was particularly egregious. It may or may not have been intentional but the german player was very late and no where near the ball. There was also a German forearm to an American's head that looked pretty bad. The locker rooms must have gotten a talking to at the half since the second half was a lot cleaner, PK's aside.
It's always a shame to see any major game in any sport come down to referee decisions. Seems to be a particular problem in soccer, where the consequences--red card vs yellow, pk vs free kick--are so disparate.
I've never reffed soccer, only hockey, but it seems like a tough job for one on field ref to see what's going on.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

Not sure if this is the official language, but it summarizes my understanding of the issue:

"Penalty Kick is defined in 18-1-bb as A kick awarded to a team because an opponent was charged with a direct free kick offense within his/her own penalty area. This definition is reinforced in Rule 14-1-1 that indicates: A penalty kick shall be awarded when a foul which ordinarily results in the awarding of a direct free kick, occurs within the offending team’s penalty area.

Thus, a penalty kick can only occur if a direct free kick offense occurs. As provided in definition 18-1-m, a rule infraction that results in a free kick is called a Foul, thus a Penalty Kick results from a foul inside the penalty area that would if outside the penalty area result in a direct kick being given to the opponent.

The fouls resulting in a direct kick are listed in Rule 13-2-1. They are: a. a player spits at, kicks, strikes, attempts to kick or strike, or jumps at an opponent; b. a player trips or attempts to trip an opponent; c. a goalkeeper attempts to strike, strikes or pushes an opponent with the ball; d. a player other than the goalkeeper in his/her own penalty area, deliberately handles the ball; e. a player pushes an opponent with the hand(s) or arm(s) extended from the body; f. a player holds an opponent; g. a player charges an opponent in a dangerous or reckless manner, or uses excessive force; and h. a player charges an opponent in a dangerous or reckless manner while the opponent has both feet off the ground."

All the statements in bold type reference the offense occurring at the position of the opponent. If the opponent is outside the box, I don't believe you can correctly award a PK. All that being said, I'm not a FIFA ref. Could be wrong, but this is always how I've understood it.

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That's all inferences. But Law 12 has the direct language that applies. Directly applicable language is not displaced by an inference from other language. Law 12 says give the PK if "the offence" occurs inside the box.

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Originally Posted by old goat

I've never reffed soccer, only hockey, but it seems like a tough job for one on field ref to see what's going on.

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It's incredibly hard. I sat through some of the training, did a few games, and then gave up, since I knew I'd never be quick enough to have eyes everywhere, as required to do it well.

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Originally Posted by old goat

You're right. The women only play 5 times harder.
As far as the reffing--aside from the obvious controversies--yellow vs red card for Johnson and the US PK--, I was thinking more of the first half, when the ref seemed to be calling inconsistenly and allowing the game to start getting out of hand. I thought the head butt on the header was particularly egregious. It may or may not have been intentional but the german player was very late and no where near the ball. There was also a German forearm to an American's head that looked pretty bad. The locker rooms must have gotten a talking to at the half since the second half was a lot cleaner, PK's aside.
It's always a shame to see any major game in any sport come down to referee decisions. Seems to be a particular problem in soccer, where the consequences--red card vs yellow, pk vs free kick--are so disparate.
I've never reffed soccer, only hockey, but it seems like a tough job for one on field ref to see what's going on.

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That's a far less dumb post...

I agree, the shitty reffing wasn't one sided, but the game deciding bad calls were. Don't know if that ref was even good enough to steer it that way had she been inclined to. Whatever, for today, shitty reffing is as much a part of the game as diving and stomping. Sucks, but the game is what it is - until the reffing strategy changes, cheating and bad calls will remain the deciding factor in many games.

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Originally Posted by Jamespio

That's all inferences. But Law 12 has the direct language that applies. Directly applicable language is not displaced by an inference from other language. Law 12 says give the PK if "the offence" occurs inside the box.

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That's more or less not correct. The infraction cannot occur without the contact (or very near contact), and the contact occurs where the opponent is, not where the defender's body is.

Also, the rules specifically stipulate which fouls can carry over the line, and obstruction is not one of them.

It's all mute anyway, as you can see in this replay (2nd video in the link) that when contact is made, both players are outside the penalty area.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/unit...rli-lloyd-goal

All this is a so what...The Krauts lost by two. Also, even to a casual observer of the game, the Americans outplayed them. The defense seemed downright stifling at the American end.

That's nto what the video shows at all. I think that video shows that the actual point of first contact, at the moment of first contact was ON the line. And the line is part of the box. At the very least, it's so close that even the camera angle could affect how we see it, and the ref's call is no less fallible than that video. Furthermore it shows that the offender was inside the box at the moment of contact. I think calling that a "bad call" is just an attempt to avoid giving the women the credit they deserve.

Regardless, it's my last comment on the subject. Looking forward to the remaining games.

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Originally Posted by Jamespio

That's nto what the video shows at all.

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Sure it is.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...Untitled_1.jpg

It's okay - you don't have to post again to acknowledge that I'm right.

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Originally Posted by irul&ublo

All this is a so what...The Krauts lost by two. Also, even to a casual observer of the game, the Americans outplayed them. The defense seemed downright stifling at the American end.

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It's true that the Americans generally outplayed them, but "generally outplaying" another team doesn't win or lose games, whereas "letting the ball bounce between you and your keeper and then pulling down the opposing team's forward in your own penalty area" is totally the sort of play that can win or lose a game, especially when it isn't called. For the 90+ minutes that the US dominated the game, those 3 seconds should have been our undoing.

Well, let's see if the officiating is as bad in the next game in 12 minutes.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

It's true that the Americans generally outplayed them, but "generally outplaying" another team doesn't win or lose games, whereas "letting the ball bounce between you and your keeper and then pulling down the opposing team's forward in your own penalty area" is totally the sort of play that can win or lose a game, especially when it isn't called.

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But it was called. Just not as a red card. And Sasic shanked it. BoardDad generally has it right in post #97.

I'm not saying all of the calls were correct, I don't think they were. But that's almost always the case in most sports. If the Germans had outplayed the U.S., it wouldn't have mattered. If Sasic had made that PK and the German defense had prevented the second U.S. goal (which I haven't seen anybody complain about), then Germany would've won. So to say the lack of red card on Johnston and/or the call that led to the PK/first U.S. goal were outcome-determinative is just being argumentative.

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Originally Posted by LightRanger

But it was called. Just not as a red card. And Sasic shanked it. BoardDad generally has it right in post #97.

I'm not saying all of the calls were correct, I don't think they were. But that's almost always the case in most sports. If the Germans had outplayed the U.S., it wouldn't have mattered. If Sasic had made that PK and the German defense had prevented the second U.S. goal (which I haven't seen anybody complain about), then Germany would've won. So to say the lack of red card on Johnston and/or the call that led to the PK/first U.S. goal were outcome-determinative is just being argumentative.

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I disagree, as would anyone familiar with the game. Playing with 10 (wo)men is not a trivial disadvantage, and the red card was 100% justified in that instance. Absolutely qualifies as a "missed" call. Sure, Sasic could have not missed the penalty. That's also not a trivial disadvantage. Doesn't excuse the missed call.

Nice dive for a pk by England. Assholes.

Then a make-up call.

That was a goal.

Own goal in the 92nd minute. Woah.

Um. Wow. Not in the playbook, I guess.

So it's a rematch, then.

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Originally Posted by old goat

I've never reffed soccer, only hockey, but it seems like a tough job for one on field ref to see what's going on.

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I was a licensed referee from 8th grade up till freshman year of college. I really did like it and it gave me some pretty decent walking around money when I was younger. Now when I got older and stuck to ref'ing only Premier teams, tournaments, 4 USSA Regionals and 1 National, the work sucked. I've never seen parents act so ugly.

It was the dawn of the soccer parent and it wasn't pretty. I was told by a parent at one Regional that "THIS IS WHAT YOURE WORTH MOTHERFUCKER!!!" As he held a dollar bill above his head. I was only a line judge for that game too, I guess he didn't understand offsides like most parents at the time. Oh, and I was 14 :eek:

I saw 2 games forfeited because of parents behavior that year. Ugly, nasty people.

The premier club I played for, Internationals, was very good. Our first trip to regionals our coach saw this ugliness towards refs and told our parents that if they couldn't keep quiet then to stay in the car. Refs thanked us routinely.

Nice to see that even England's successful cheating can't overcome their inclination to choke. FA FTL!

COME ON OUR GIRLS!