Lettuce is soporific!Quote:
Originally Posted by polenta
Soporific Salads and Lettuce Opium
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Lettuce is soporific!Quote:
Originally Posted by polenta
Soporific Salads and Lettuce Opium
See a doctor and get a blood test. I went a couple months getting only 1-2 hours of sleep. a night. Norco, valium, Ambien, melatonin, none of it worked at all. Still don't know how I was able to function, although I was suffering. Turns out I was severely anemic (I would have thought that would make someone sleepy, but no) due to a GI issue. Within a few days of taking iron supplements I was sleeping like a baby, Not saying that's your problem, but the insomnia is quite likely a symptom and not the problem itself.
Thanks doc. Glad you know me and where I get my info so well. Its all just another factor of a move faster, fix it now, I can't wait attitude that exists today.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutash
I'm a firm believer in placebo. I believe the power of the mind is much stronger than we give it credit for. There is plenty of data to backup placebo working as well or better than the actual drug. Now obviously you can't "mind over matter" cancer, but many other common ailments that MDs will just write a quick script for can be overcome without any med.
To be clear I don't blame MDs for this at all, goes right back to big pharma for me. Docs are just doing what the patient now expects. Bring back doc baker from little house on the praire. House calls bitch.
Phill, you're heading for trouble down the road if you continue on the need for ever escalating doses of benzos to get you to sleep. Also, I wonder how much of your sleep issues are made worse by concerta during the day. You take it once or twice a day? The stimulant & sedative combo can destroy natural sleep cycles. Your doc should be asking you questions about what your sleep is now--can't fall asleep? Why? Can't stay asleep? Wake up early? What do you do/think about while you lay there awake?
Hutash is right, you should see a sleep doc. To do that though they will want you off sedatives and concerta for a week. Also consider CBT for sleep and reading up on "sleep hygiene" and make sure you're doing everything you should be.
For sleep aids, melatonin is the first stop, and it's most effective at 10-15mg a night. I rarely prescribe benzos like Ativan for sleep, and if I do it's because if the pt doesn't get sleep then something worse happens.
I hate Seroquel for sleep. Yes it's an antipsychotic, and most all antipsychotics are sedating. But it really only has it's antipsychotic effect at high doses. People take it for sleep at around 50mg and a that dose you only fill histamine receptors with the drug...so you are taking fancy hydroxyzine that will cause you to gain 50 pounds and develop diabetes.
If melatonin, hydroxyzine doesn't work then I start down the path of things like baby doses of remeron, Trazodone, old TCA antidepressants at low dose. But honestly, for those willing to do some work, CBT for insomnia has the greatest effect(as long as you don't have an underlying sleep disorder).
The final though is, you have dealt with this since high school. Chances are you are going to deal with it for a long time before it gets figured out, if ever. So any doc telling you something will definitely work is being a bit too rosey.
Yesterday was a very stressful day and being on the booze wagon isn't helping my mood. So I had a hit of the wife's Blue Mystic after dinner. All I know is smoking weed makes me want to go to sleep. The actual buzz / high just makes my body say "Nighty night". So to be sure, I ate half a muffin too at 8pm and hit the sack. My wife said I barely moved last night (I was out) and I woke up a little fuzzy, but nothing 2 cups of coffee and a walk didn't sort out. So if you have troubles sleeping, find the right herb to knock yourself out, if your body reacts that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
Nice. I hit the Presidential OG Kush vape a few times before bed and it was my alarm that actually woke me up. No grogg.Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
Edibles last too long for me, I would probably still be high in the morning.
People who take ambian and it doesn't work - do you hallucinate / get high when you don't fall asleep or is there no effect? I've never taken Ambien but I thought if you don't fall asleep there are pretty strong effects.
You only hallucinate on the edge of sleep. It's like you are dreaming but awake. Ever take a nap in the afternoon where you are watching tv and then the tv is part of your dream? It's like that only much more accute. If you are consciously awake the affect of ambien is a lot like benedryl. Just kind of a dull wish you could sleep feeling.Quote:
Originally Posted by neufox47
Anyone taking amby to get high is really f'd up because it's a crappy high.
And, it is not addicitve, not at all imo. I WISH I didn't have to take it and wouldn't miss it for a second.
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
This too, except on TGR, where defining a word is a wholly subjective personal matter, and where an attempt to call out imprecise speech invites personal attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
Me too, but OTOH, since my brain surgery 2-1/2 years ago, occasional use has helped me get back on track when my circadian rhythm gets off whack. It really doesn't take much. When I use it I take c. 2.5mg (bite off 1/4 of a 10mg pill) and place it under my tongue. My MD bud says that initial recommended dosage was too high and has been reduced. From the onset of my occasional use, he suggested biting off a wee bit as a means to determine minimum effective dosage.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
I'm addicted to hairsplitting.
Take whatever that stuff was that Michael Jackson was taking.
I've had moderate insomnia from time to time over the years. As luck would have it, one of my close friends is a medical board certified sleep specialist. His advice to me has always been something along the lines of "Unless you have a sleep study done, I'd just be guessing. That said, your sleep hygiene is a disgrace. Clean it up." So a good place to start is by cleaning up your sleep hygiene with the things recommended above (cut caffeine, eat lighter dinners, quiet and dark bedroom, (and that means totally dark, not even glowing lights from alarm clocks, set top boxes, cell phones, etc.), exercise, breathing exercises, yoga, meditation, regular and sleep routine and schedule, etc.
But since all of that likely requires enough of a lifestyle change to be a pain in the ass, if you're like most of America you're thinking: "Can't I just take a pill for that?" Personally, I try to avoid pharmaceuticals. The couple of times I tried a 1/2 an Ambien, it wiped me out for the next day. No beuno. Luckily, I have had great results from Melatonin. Since it isn't a drug, it isn't really regulated, so buyer beware. I would stick to as reputable a manufacturer as you can. It's a naturally occurring hormone, so at least it's not foreign to your body. The studies that have been done show good results and safety, but there is definitely a lack of long term study on regular use. Most recommend using it to regulate sleep for a period of time (30-90 days ish) and then getting off for a while. Dosage is also all over the charts (mostly due to lack of study). I would start with 1 mg and then increase to 3m or 5mg as needed. One thing I would recommend is finding some that is a combo of fast acting (to get to sleep) and slow release (to maintain deep sleep overnight). I say this because when taking only the fast acting, I've found that if I wake up in the middle of the night for some reason, it can be harder for me to get back to sleep. Take it 15-30 minutes before bed and then do something relaxing before getting into bed. Someone above mentioned having gruesome nightmares. Not sure what this is from. Might say something about the demons that lurk in his particular subconscious :) I do have much more vivid dreams, but they are not frightening. Sometimes they are pretty wild or trippy, but I don't remember any being frightening. In addition to helping me get to sleep quickly and staying asleep, I found that my sleep is qualitatively much deeper and more restful. I sometimes wake up in the morning and it feels like I fell asleep 2 seconds ago. I start my day refreshed, not sluggish like with the pharms.
My sleep specialist MD friend runs a sleep lab in Denver so if you are in or near CO, I can put you in touch with him if you want to try to take care of the problem once and for all. Good luck. Insomnia sux. /blog
Odd. Ambien has an average half-life of 2.6 hours, good at helping one get to sleep, but not so good at keeping one asleep for longer than 5-6 hours. (My MD buds' view is that time-released Ambien was just a ploy to get patent protection after the patent expired on the original). I agree re cleaning up environment to enhance sleep opportunities. FWIW, some experts suggest that 7-8 hours sleep per night thing to fit a typical modern schedule is an unnatural construct.Quote:
Originally Posted by VTChrome
That's funnyQuote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Good to know as I need something that keeps me asleep. I fall asleep easily. Problem is, I wake up after 4-5 hours and then I am awake for a few hours. I have to get up early, so that middle of the night awake shit is for the birds as I need at least 8 hours of sleep. I am wack on 5-6 hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Steve
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Originally Posted by Skidog
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Originally Posted by Skidog
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Originally Posted by Skidog
See, you are just spouting back what the drug insert says, and your education and experience is immaterial. You are just a tool of big pharmacy and you should just be prescribing placebos. Who would doubt the widow of a random person on a ski forum?Quote:
Originally Posted by CantDog
No go back to the good ol' days when children died of easily preventable diseases and big pharma was Dr Baker's fix all elixir, proof the plecebo is the best pill there is.
I find it best to get up, have a piece of fruit, or something healthy, maybe read (I used to read medical joirnals, but I just recently learned is is impossible to stay medically current, so fuck that.) I don't know about Ambien, but if you fall asleep easily, taking something like Lunesta when you wake will help you with the 5-6 additional hours you desire.Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
Alcohol screws up my sleep.
Of course, if all else fails, I can sell you a vial of placebos, that shits the Bomb for sleep.
Didn't studies show that even if you tell someone you are giving them a placebo ... it still works?
Ambien must affect people differently. I took a pill once (can't remember the dose) and couldn't wake up the next day till mid afternoon (woke up earlier and absolutely couldn't keep my eyes open and had to go back to bed). So that was a good 14 hours sleep. After that I only took it a few times and took half a pill and made sure another adult was around to care for the kids, because once asleep I could not be woken until I naturally woke on my own. (or weird shit would happen). Definitely made me sleep longer than 5-6 hours.
It's strong shit and will cure what every ails you. Big pharma suppresses the results because they don't have the patent. I know for a fact the government puts placebo in Chem trails so everybody will asleep when the Muslim king takes control. Coincidence that most people sleep at night? I think not, "they" are just controlling us.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Placebo was one of the topics at a recent medical convention, I used to tag along and just go skiing, gotta love ski vaca's subsidized by the socialist HC system of Canada eh?
Placebo is best if you take it with a little tincture of time
I used to snort placebo
Isn't that also known as homeopathy?Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
And no it doesn't work.
Word on the street is that AW's cousin became a placebo addict, a real junkie, quit his job, left his family, dropped out of sight after doing a couple years in Walla Walla for knocking over a Circle K to feed his placebo jones
If you have to learn something, you might as well have fun doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Just an aside, but I used to do the big veterinary conference, do 8 hours of lectures, spend 5 days packing my brain, but then realized I didn't retain all that much. I starting to going to meetings where we get lectures for 2 1/2 hours, go ski, and get another 2 1/2 hours, and I learned and retained so much more. It is a much better way to do CE.
Also, I have never read a rx package insert. I don't think I know a single doctor who does. They epocrates that shit and then if it doesn't answer their question pick up the phone, dial zero, and talk to the pharmacy.
When I can't sleep I go down to Leida's and box with the pugs. There is a Basque woodchopper down there named Paolino, his hands are so big they need to make gloves especially for him. He eats only raw fish and can't hit anyone quicker than an Irish heavyweight. He closes his eyes when he throws a punch, like a little boy trying to hit a baseball. He is as wide in the shoulders as the Arc de Triomphe, with legs like a sand piper. He doesn't make contact very often but when he does his opponent gets carried off in a sack.
I have never struggled to sleep so much I have entertained getting in the ring with him. But if it's deep slumber you are seeking he can certainly provide it. Tell Fred I sent you.
Give it a rest pill popper. Why don't you regale us with another story about your dramatic entrance into the running store and all the little chicas fall prostrate at you feet as if your some kind of Superman or Captain America?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Steve
Pretty sure there a millions of Asians that pretty much practice what would be considered homeopathy. Eastern v western meds. Just different is all. Less unnatural that enters the body the better IMHO.
Arsenic is natural. Most of that asian medicine is crap because they didn't have access to real pharmacy science. No pharmacy so see the local witch doctor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidog
Why am I not surprised:rolleyes: You are the perfect candidate for homeopathy and Chinese medicine, why not have a priest exorcise you while you are at it. Email a large sum cash some to me and I'll send you some special chicken bones to rattle when you are not able to sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidog
Yeah, they are different, one has proven effects and the other doesn't.
Could have been Ambien, Xanax, Lunesta...not sure. I mooched it from a friend to make sure I slept on the red eye back from CO. All I know is I was not sharp the next day and dropped for a crash-nap after lunch. The tiredness could also have just been the effects of the shitty sleep I got on the red eye, despite the drugs. Either way, melatonin does the trick for me so I avoid the drugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Steve
Someone above recommended a 10 mg dose of melatonin. Probably no harm, but it seems like overkill. I've never needed more than 5 and even as low as 1 mg has worked. I'd start with less and add as needed.
Bobby, if I smoked as much weed as you, I would be sleeping 20 hours a day. I want to come up and ski with you guys next winter, but if I have to smoke too, well, I won't be skiing much, that is for damn sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowing alpy
I've wondered about melatonin safety long term. It's a hormone. Typically when you substitute a hormone, your body quits producing its own, right?
The half life of melatonin is less than an hour, so apart from taking it all the time I don't think there would be much risk.
I do wonder what chronic antidepressant use would do to your melatonin levels though, as melatonin is produced along the pathway with serotonin.
I briefly had a pill pushing doc who gave me low doses of paxil not for depression but for of all things shoulder pain and that stuff really made me sleepy, I had to drive for work but I was having to pull over and nap all the time and it didn't do much for the pain ... but acupuncture workedQuote:
Originally Posted by CantDog
Apple cider vinegar 2/oz- 1 tps honey, forgo booze till almost sober. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Yeah no shit, man. Right there w/you. I love to partake in the green (and various derivatives thereof) but I've never liked skiing stoned.Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
I like a puff or two around mid day. A mood change can really perk me up for the home stretch. Especially on a sunny day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
I read this thread and kinda wonder about the lifestyles of the rich famous (on TGR) who need that many meds to get thru the day & night?
I look at the sleep meds as a last resort, even tho I have done my fair share of smokin/drinking/partying there is just NO way I would be popping pills instead of altering lifestyle ...or maybe I'm just a fucking lightweight