So that's actually in violation of some statute? This seems really weird to me. Does anyone know the actual legalese that allows a cop to actually arrest you for ducking a rope? Is this just in CO?Quote:
Originally Posted by phUnk
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So that's actually in violation of some statute? This seems really weird to me. Does anyone know the actual legalese that allows a cop to actually arrest you for ducking a rope? Is this just in CO?Quote:
Originally Posted by phUnk
How SAR is coming out of this looking bad is beyond me. The group did something really stupid by deciding to ski the chute that late in the day. I was skiing park at Breck that day and it was hot as shit out there at ALL elevations. CMSummit it's obvious you feel terrible about the situation and I'm glad you made it out alive, but you should have known better. After the slide the group did something very smart by calling Copper to let the patrollers know everything was ok and rescue was not needed. They did not know about the second slide, but when Copper saw it they overreacted and should have simply called the party back and asked if everything was ok. Why phone numbers were not exchanged is beyond me, or did the Copper patroller not even think to ask? The group then got worried about jobs, money and arrests (very realistic fears) and stayed in the woods for an hour trying to decide what to do. In the meantime SAR folks are pulled away from their lives to respond to the situation which is becoming more of a production every second the skiers stayed in the woods. Can you really blame them for being annoyed when the skiers finally came out of the woods? Bad decisions were made on all sides, but I don't see how SAR being a little pissed off is really the problem here.
If it's a FS closure, then yes it is illegal. I had the federales after me once, but the banditos got away. But that's another story.Quote:
Originally Posted by seatosky
And yes, as Junkie describes, COSAR cards are not insurance. As I've been told, no one in CO has ever been charaged for SAR. The lady on the phone at COSAR simply said you are paying to train,equip etc. SAR organizations. You could be charged for SAR either with or without the card, but having the card weighs the decision in your favor.
Who gives a shit how stupid it was or was not to ski the chute? It was their choice and one they had a right to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by robokill1981
As for sitting in the woods, please point me to the statute that says upon triggering an avalanche a party must immediately report in to S&R for debriefing. Thats just bullshit. A nice long safety meeting in the woods is probably just what those guys needed after the whole ordeal.
P.S. Robokill, just curious if you are a backcountry skier?
It is illegal in Colorado to cross a closed boundary. Maybe if CMsummit clarified how they went about exiting the Breck ski area boundary that would help. If they skied from the 8 summit down the penguins to whales tail and then over the Summit of Seven, then they violated a closed area inbounds. I'm not sure if Brecks permit boundaries are closed by Forest Supervisors order and ducking the ropes at the boundary is illegal or not, but there are closed signs all over the place at the summits and along the rope lines on peak 7 & 8.
It sounds like there could have been better communication all around here. When the tracks on the ground didn't match what the party in question was saying and there was a report of a second slide with tracks in and no tracks out, that led to a lot of confusion on the part of the SARS group. According to the reports, Copper got a (second? third?) call from the party sayingthat they where down and driving home when in fact they where still on the mountain. If this is true, then CMs party deserves a lot of the blame.
As has been mentioned, SCRG and the Sheriffs office where a little pissed when they found out CMsummits group had not been totally honest about where they where. If Copper patrol fueled the fire by exaggerating the report, then they should also review how they handled the situation and take steps to do a better job next time.
I know the folks at SCRG and flight for life do not want to be pulled away from their jobs, homes, etc for a comedy of errors like this. It seems to me that CMs party, because they knew they had done something illegal at Breck was a bit more evasive in their communication than they should have been and maybe Copper could have done a better job at getting good information. Over all, I think it will always be better to err on the side of deploying the rescue mission than not. If someone (maybe you) where wrapped around a tree with a broken femur, I'd imagine you'd feel the same way too.
You are right it was their decision, but I can understand why the SAR guys were a little annoyed. I don't blame it all on the skiers though, the patrollers at Copper should have some protocal for a situation like this. Getting cmsummit's phone number would have been the easiest thing to do and probably solved all these problems. I don't know anyone from Copper's partol but it sounds like they really messed this situation up. I agree that a safety meeting would have helped, but during that hour SAR was mobilizing which led to them being even more annoyed when the skiers came out. In the end who cares if their was some dick waving going on anyway, everyone is alive and no one is getting in serious trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
I would say I've spent half of my days this season in the backcountry.
Is there any snow left in the K chute? I'm thinking about hiiting it up this weekend and building a kicker at the bottom to road gap 91.
Foggy, you are correct wrt COSAR card (lifted from Alpine SAR webpage):Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
(snip)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
What good is a COSAR Card, a sportsmen's license or vehicle registration?
They protect your safety by ensuring, through grants, that a trained and equipped search and rescue team exists and is standing by, should you ever need it. And it gives each county sheriff a pool of reimbursement money if an and infrequent large, long or expensive mission occurs.
It does not "insure" you against a bill for a helicopter (you should expect a bill for a medical helicopter, just as a n ambulance), or for rescue operations, or for a multiple day search: there is no bill for search and rescue team's services in Colorado.
It is Colorado's financial safety net that protects rescuers and sheriffs, by ensuring a sheriff's department can afford occasional expensive mission costs; and by equipping and training Colorado's SAR volunteers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
(snip)
Most SAR teams in CO are MRA accreddited and they obide by MRA stance on charging for rescue, i.e. "volunteer teams of MRA are proud to be able to provide search and rescue at NO cost and have NO plans to charge in the future"
http://www.mra.org/pay_resq.html
It should be noted, however, that SAR activities are responsibility of local sheriff who, in some cases, may want to recoup the cost of rescue as it was the case about 2 years ago when a climber in Clear Creek got rescued by fire department and per news report was given a bill for rescue.
Zobbe Jong, The boundary violation is irrelevant to the rescue. Had the skiers called S&R and requested help, then people would have reason to be pissed. Because these guys did the exact opposite and said they were fine, those guys owe nothing nor expected anything from the rescue party.
If I had a broken leg like you say, and actually needed help(have not needed so in the past when dealing with broken/compound fractured bones in the bc), I would call and request it. Until then, they should stand down.
Very true. This is how most emergency workers deal with the stress. Morbid humor is almost a prerequiment. EMS, SAR, whoever, all make morbid jokes to keep their spirits high. They try to do it when sensitive ears are not present. It's a way to deal with things and given that one person who is ragging on SAR has told me he wouldn't want to have to do the tough stuff that SAR deals with...Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze
Think about it from their point of view. You were at work, with family, skiing, whatever. BEEEEEEEEEEEP! You got called away to save someone. 3 people buried? You mentally steele yourself to deploy to a potentially dangerous debris field where you may be all evening and the next few days looking for dead bodies. Your training clicks in. Then you are relieved to find out that everybody is safe, you don't need to go into harms way, there are no bodies to dig up. Smiles all around. The relief turns to a bit of annoyance when you find out that it was all for not and the people were hiding in the trees.
Especially if they are buried. Don't forget to request SAR when you are 3 feet under. :rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
DD, do YOU ski the backcountry at all? Because if you do you are well aware that the victims may not be in a situation to call for help due to injury, incapacitation (burial), or lack of communication devices! This is why SAR will respond to a call of tracks in, no tracks out. Nobody may be unburied to call for help.
DD, you need to understand the confusion of this situation, the conflicting and false reports that didn't add up, this all lead to SAR being unsure whether there were perhaps other people on the mountain, perhaps another party that was buried. Once CMsummit's group made the decision to call Copper Patrol, they had an obligation to be truthfull and thorough (though they could still remain anonyomous). They were not, and clearly miscommunication ensued and led to the situation that occurred. Blaming SAR is BS.
I've only met some people from the Routt dog team and they were easy going and very professional.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
Summit County is 100% volunteer.
And what about calling and lying to SAR about your location, then hiding when they were dispatched.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
:rolleyes2
Was SAR able to see the people on the mountain, it would be clear an additional possible party was safe. Otherwise SAR could only see a second slide with no tracks and the reporting party saying they were clear... that necessitates a search of the second field.
They made a stupid skiing decision, called Copper Patrol (good move), lied to Copper Patrol about their location (bad move), this probably contributed to Copper Patrols miscommunication problems, refused further information (per CAIC), then made themselves not visible (had they been visible the rescue could have been called off much earlier), SAR could only go "things do not add up here, perhaps there were separate groups or something, we have to investigate and treat it as a full on mission. SOP" especially with the unreported second slide!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
The person who holds the most contempt bases it on an incident which he has chosen not to mention because of how it would cast him. :nonono2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley
I would say miscommunication contributed to the situation as well, but otherwise, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley
I agree 100%. However, this is not what Blurred was addressing at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Star
As I understand it:Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
Some people have in fact been charged for SAR. It depends where you are and the policy of the local group.
The way the COSAR card insures you is that if you are helped by SAR and hold the COSAR card (or equivelent such as boating registration, snowmobile registration, fishing license, hunting license, etc) the SAR organization and others involved are eligable to recoup part or all of the cost of the rescue from the Colorado State fund. If you don't have this card, the SAR group has no way to recoup funds from the state SAR fund. A helicopter taking off costs $500 alone.
---
Clearly there was a miscommunication and the groups decision lie about their location combined with not making themselves visible made it impossible for the rescue to be cancelled (as they often are in other situation). I think the people hating on SAR need to take some perspective on the issue.
Robokill1981 put it best.
that may be the case in colorado but i believe utah might be different. aside from that, your insurance company will take your illegal actions into account when deciding to pay off on both the life flight and subsequent fees or injuries you may have received by accessing terrain illegally. that is why the accident report is needed before insurance pays anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
Summit I'll sure rest easier now knowing you guys have my back. :rolleyes:
If I buried three feet under, then my partners will save me or I will die. I'm comfortable with that. If they make the decision about whether or not your assistance will be of any help, then they will ask for it. If you do not receive a request from them, then stand the fuck down and mind your own business.
Slightly OT,
This reminds me of a couple of summers ago when my buddies and I were up on the upper elk box(roadside class 5+ burl), when my buddy gets his ass knocked off and swims out of the big falls. Meanwhile all the tourists are freaking out calling on cellphones for help and trying to get the guys that set safety to talk to whoever they called instead of effecting the rescue ourselves. We shortly got the situation under control with no problems other than a lost drain plug, booties and a few bruises. To us, it was not a big deal. To think that we would have depended on a S&R team that was based 30 miles away is freaking laughable. Unfortunately the 15 gapers assumed we needed outside help, after we told them to chill out. All we wanted was for them to get out of the way and let us do what we've spent our entire lives learning to do. I'd put that group of boaters rescue skills up against any swift water rescue team in the state. Hands down. People are responsible for there on actions and should be left alone unless help is requested..
APD,Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze
Since the skiers did not request a helicoptor or any rescue, why should they or their insurance company pay anything?
Ha! Most swift water teams make winter SAR missions look like a well choreographed ballet. Wanna see something scary, put a fireman in a river.
Dirk, let me know when you've got all the wood outta Fish so the Front Rangers can get there creekin' on. Been down Cross yet? I'm itchin.
And if your whole group is caugt? Incapacitated? Unable to communicate out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
I guess you know for certain that will never happen. You won't ever make a mistake. :wink:
Other groups have had their group completely buried and were reported by others. I guess we just shouldn't respond.
Say... if you are in a car accident, the ambulance will be sure not to respond unless someone from your vehicle calls 911, nevermind if you are slumped over the steering wheel. :nonono2: :confused:
---
I can't comment about most water rescue teams, but Summit County Water Rescue (100% volunteer, no FF or LEO) has an outstanding swiftwater contingent of avid river rats. The other half of the team are divers and the team is who 90% of the counties in CO will call first for mutual aid on a dive mission.
I agree with Foggy Goggles... FF in bunker gear + swiftwater = baaaaad shit waiting to happen (you see that on the news all the time)
i'm not speaking directily to this incident but the general "rescue" situation. if there is an injury of some sort or if you have to take a ride from SAR then someone foots the bill. that's typically what insurance is for but they aren't always willing to open their pockets if they feel you did something illegal. that is why they wait for an accident report when one is available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
Keep trying cause I'm not buying. Whole group caught? Surely you can give me more credit than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
Since I don't know anything about you other than the less than mature attitude you've displayed and your pointless attacks on SAR and other public safety groups... nah... I'm not giving you much credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
I take offense at assholes like yourself, that think they need to help when help is unwanted. Mind your own business and I'll mind mine. You guys fucked up, jumped the gun, and expect somebody to be thankful of your efforts? Keep up the good work wannabe hero man. I'm sure it makes you feel cool. Just realize that there are people out there that have spent a lifetime developing skills and don't expect or need the help from people who have infinitely less experience and skill. There is not one person on our local S&R that could ski 1 day in the areas we frequent so I'm 100% reliant on the people in my party. I'm sorry you are offended by my attitude, but I just want to be left the fuck alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
As far as I'm concerned SAR did the right thing giving the information they received from Copper Mtn. Ski Patrol.
Looked at my phone records last night:
2:47PM: Phone call put into Copper Mtn. ski patrol about an avalanche in the K chute. Triggered by one skier in a group of three, all parties involved are okay. Caller wishes to remain anonymous and is told to call ski patrol back when they are down.
3:30PM Phone call placed back to Copper Mtn. ski patrol, saying the group is down, out of danger, and okay.
Keep in mind that this second phone call was placed aprrox. 30mins after both avalanches occured. If we were in trouble, then why did we place a phone call 30 mins after all slides had occured to tell them we were ok? Big fucking deal that there were no tracks leading out. What if we had gotten out with no visible tracks? What then? Is it still protocol to waste resources when you have VERBAL CONFIRMATION of the safety of all parties involved. I should have called Summit Dispatch. I just thought that with the K chute so visible from Copper Mtn., that they would be the first ones to call it in anyways.
4:15pm: Another anonymous phone call placed by my brothers roommate to Copper Mtn. ski patrol to let them know that he had just spoken to the involved parties and all three were safe. Are we still in danger? What the fuck?
non-sequitur and irrelevant; poor analogyQuote:
Originally Posted by Summit
There's a lot of folks who choose to recreate in public lands and wilderness in part so they can rely on their own decisions and actions. There's no expectation-and often, no desire- to have that "safety leash" that we're used to having in more urban locales.
What an asshole!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
Perhaps you should also call your local fire department and tell them unless you've phoned and asked for help they should let your house burn down if they ever see it on fire.
Not a fan lawsuits or suits in general, but perhaps you sue CMSP for the emotional duress they have caused you. It should be fairly easy to demonstrate.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmsummit
An article in the Summit Daily News with information given by my brother:
Summit Daily News
I wonder why they don't care if you ski in the back country in any of the national forests, but if you ski in the BC by a resort it's a fine... I don't get it. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I think the thread has to hit 7 pages before you can claim that.Quote:
Originally Posted by puke
A more clear understanding of events:
Group calls CMSP (GOOD), says they were OK after triggering ONE slide (they aren't aware of the second, oops).
CMSP uses binoculars or a telescope to investigate, notices a SECOND slide, tracks in no tracks out. (THIS IS THE KEY TO THE CALLOUT)
Group calls CMSP again to say they were out when they weren't (BAD) (but this message is supposedly not passed along to those making the decisions. (VERY BAD!))
EDIT: SOMEONE CALLS BRECK PATROL STATING THERE ARE THREE PEOPLE BURIED. (per CAIC)
CMSP assumes a second group present and buried or the first group caught in the second slide because the second call was not passed. Because of this and/or for some reason I don't know, CMSP contacts Summit County Communications Center to trigger a multiagency avalanche rapid response.
Lifeguard 2 launched per FFLARD, picks up a snow tech and a dog team, investigates slide.
SCSO arrives at the Corn Lot.
SCRG arrives at the Corn Lot.
BSP contacted.
Group makes third call to CMSP saying they are out when they were not (BAD), this message, however, was passed along to SAR.
SCRG, confused, continues preparations with BSP to mitigate hangfire danger so that teams can be put in the field, while using Lifeguard 2 to look for tracks out.
Lifeguard 2 spots the group in the trees, SAR mission stood down.
Riding ski lifts, ducking a ski area boundry rope to ski SKY chutes on the backside of Breckenridge to ski down to a Copper Mountain parking lot in full view of the resort and Interstate 70. This doesn't qualify as a wilderness escape. This was lift served out of bounds skiing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Star
I think it was pretty clear cmsummit and friends was going for the good turns (SKY chutes are fun skiing!). If he wanted to get away from society in full he probably would have chosen a real deep wilderness areas like those you frequent in the summer or at least a trip up into the Gore Range.
I think that is a relevant analogy.
You and I have discussed this before. You also know how strongly I hate the provision in the CSSA that allows LEO to charge people for cutting a rope from leased public land to unleased public land. It's just dumb. It's OUR land damnit!
I didn't go on this mission. I was 50 miles away. I listened to the radio traffic. Feel free to keep assuming that is where my position on this is coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
How is SAR supposed to know whether there was anyone up there that fits your elite little description of yourself?
You sound like one of the elitist types who wishes there was no SAR at all as though it would keep "undesirables" out of the BC.
Any other SAR team would have reacted similarly to the confusing information in the fashion it was available from Copper Mountain. It was the right thing to do. It was standard operating procedure given the situation. Blaming SAR for this situation is ludicrous.
You may have a low opinion about your local SAR people. They aren't here and I don't really care. I guarantee you I know a few people on SAR capable of skiing down anything you are capapable of skiing down and doing it with more grace and less dick waving. :D Oh wait... that doesn't matter one bit and has no bearing on the situation except for your ego! I suggest you check your massive ego and attitude. You should get off your high horse and listen to what cmsummit is saying.
It's not illegal to ski the backcountry by resorts provided you leave through the access gates. Those are the rules, I didn't write em, play it as it lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Freak
The rules are still stupid and we don't have to like them, just to understand the consequences should we break the rules stupid as they are. It's our public land. Free the BC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireallyliketoski
hmmm, I checked in on page one and then page 5. Typical maggot thread.
Story is relayed ---> people chime in ----> one maggot disagrees, vehemnently ---> pissing match starts ----> one maggot storms off with a F*%& You -----> peace is restored by clearer minds -----> thread dies a nice death
next
Why does the fact that the party entered the area by ducking a rope have no bearing on whether or not they would be arrested, fined or would have to pay for the flight time of the heli?
IMHO, the gates at Breck are positioned so that patrol can get an idea if someone is verturing outside the area. All of the gates I am aware of are either near a patrol station, or require a skin to reach the top of the Ten Mile Range, thus insuring the breck patrol can see them.
For instance, given the report, if CMSP sees two slides, and three tracks going into one of them. They call over to BRSP, find out that only three people have left the boundary, those three people have called in safe, so nothing is done. However by ducking the rope, BRSP has no idea how many people are back there, and cannot respond.
Given the fact there were two slides, and the phone message from cmsummits crew only described what sounded to CMSP like the one with no tracks, CMSP did the right thing by calling SAR. I know I would be pretty pissed off if I was in a group with people buried and SAR turned away because another groups said they were the only ones back there and were OK. I would never count on SAR for help, but you never know what can happen.
This is a unique situation where multiple parties made some mistakes and a lot can be learned by the miscomunications made. Unfortunately, what will probably happen is a lot of finger pointing and dick waving. So much could be learned from this situation if people were willing to put their pride and egos behind them and discuss the situation. I commend cmsummit for posting on the board about his mistake and hope that the other parties involved are willing to do the same.
Dirk, you may may want to be left alone, however most people I think would not, and given that SAR would not know the feelings of the people on the mountain, they are obligated to respond. Don't get mad just because you get a little extra attention.
On another note, in one of the related articles from the Summit Daily, it sure didn't take long for this to morph into an anti-summit lift article:
http://summitdaily.com/article/20050406/NEWS/50406008
It's the goddamn stunt pickle teams. Every year they ruin the parade, upstaging the shopping basket drill teams and the casket sex squads with their little green nubblies sprouting out everywhere. They've gone beyond kosher, beyond the safe amounts of garlic and dill to new levels that would squelch a politician or choke a goat.
I mean, where are canned good going these days? It's the fault of fast food, microwaves and stress oriented bagel nosheries that would have been run out of the kibbutz with reverse swatstikas.
This thread is done. I could care less what people think of my views or attitudes toward this subject. Call me a dick waver if you want even though I've never so much as posted a trip report on this board, I don't care. You provoked me and I honestly stated that the level skill of most S&R is below that of the people I travel in the mountains with. It is fact whether you like it or not. It was not meant to be elitist. The picture B11's painted is one I've seen many times.
How about a quick example:
Jan 1998 ( Summit, you weren't around back then, eh?), snomobiler goes missing for three days up on Buffalo Pass. Every S&R member in the area out on mission and nothing. The local bc skiers made suggestions and were ignored. After the third night they sucked up their pride and got help from a local bc skiier group who located the missing party in a matter of hours. Why didn't they go into that canyon to begin with? Lack of skill and knowledge. This is just one example I have. If you want more, let me know.
Also forgot to mention how S&R tried to save us while night skiing a month or so ago. They were out looking for some tourists, but had to let us know that they thought we were crazy for enjoying some nice moonlit turns. Just because they wouldn't/couldn't do it personally, does not mean others aren't comfortable with it. But hey it sure made that guy feel good to act all official and shit. All I'm asking for is to be left alone. Why is this a problem for you?
JP,
Was not Loveland Pass.
Lou, I've got night skiing on the pass before. It's fun. It's beautiful.
I know several SAR types that snowmobile VP on full moons.
Sorry if the group in your area is uptight, you need to chill and stop ragging on SAR as though they are good for nothing and shoudl be eliminated. You are the one who started the superiority vein. SAR makes mistakes. Eveyone does, but if you are so damned good and could do it better, maybe you ought to go teach your local SAR a thing of two.
I doubt Lou would "lower" himself to ski in such "mudane" terrain.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonpierre
I was not at this call. Sorry if you felt brushed off. There are certain liability issues as far as SAR including Joe Public in the search effort. If your approach is "I'd like to help tell me what to do." You are going to get brushed off. If your approach is "I'm going skiing over there, I'll let you know if I happen to see something, BTW what was he wearing?" You will get a better response because there can be no construed liability (screw laywers). It also depends on the situation (which was mostly resolved at that point) and who is in command. After all they have no idea of your experience and training. You could be the almighty Lou or you could be a gaper from Texas.
I think your willingness to help is commendable.
SAR was out in the morning. The kid had gotten picked up as SAR was setting up command. SAR was checking the pullouts and A-Basin (to see if they were there). It became rapidly apparent that the party had been picked up. SAR remained onscene relaxed for a good while until this could be confirmed in person. Perhaps that is why you thought they weren't doing much (most of the activity was going on elsewhere for most of the time). Most overdue skier/hiker searches around here end up being for not. That's the way it is. Thats the way most emergency calls are in all respects 90% BS. You go out because 10% of them turn out not to be BS.
Are there Safety-Bobs on SAR? Absolutely. There are safety bobs in ANY profession and safety professions naturally attract more than their share. It is the nature of the beast. A few of them get off on it. A few of them preach because when efforts are fruitless, it subcocniously lets a few people feel like they are at least accomplishing something. A few of them go into the rescue mindset of "we're here to rescue a gaper, I sure don't want to have to rescue any other gapers" and start assuming anyone they come across. In the end, it doesn't matter. They do their job. You don't have to listen to them. Personally, I hate the people who feel the need to tell everyone else what they should do. It drives me nuts! You shouldn't write off the entirety of SAR and all the good that they do because one guy gave you some guff. Most volunteer SAR members are easy going people looking to help others and give freely of themselves back to their community.
Plenty of free BC out there. If your riding lifts, that's not BC, that's lazy, and laziness should be punishable by fines!Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
Touche :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireallyliketoski
I was speaking more in general terms. However, I find the principle of the issue extremely offensive (some corporation telling me I can't access public land).
A quick question: If SAR justified the search, after the 'OK' call, because there was a second, unreported slide with potential victims, then why call off the search when the party that had already called to say they didn't need help was located? How was seeing them visually different from their own report to not need SAR? Why did finding that group suddenly mean that the search they were supposedly conducting for another group could be called off?
On their last pass in a close inspection, the helicopter spotted faint tracks past the second slide which quickly led them to find the group in the trees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki