Where do you punch the boot wide? 6th toe or a little further toward the arch? I’ve had the 6th toe punched for years and it stills bothers me. Maybe even further?Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
I might try a metatarsal arch again. Tried it before and it didn’t do much. Maybe I need to mess around the the placement more.
Did you try GABAPENTIN designed for nerve pain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
punch about an inch behind the base of the little toe, widest part of the foot(at least for my foot).Quote:
Originally Posted by funkendrenchman
Then a metatarsal pad almost in the middle of the foot, farther back than you would think.
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I have Morton's for about 3 years, then i punched my boots, wider shoes, and it went away in a couple of months.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
It is caused by mechanical problems, tight shoes and it can only be solved by mechanical means, plenty of room in your shoes
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I found it worthless--at 1800mg/d--for nerve pain from lumbar stenosis. OTOH the lumbar stenosis cured the pain from my plantar neuroma because that part of my foot is now numb. C'est la vie. I've had patients who said it worked for them but I think in general it is overhyped--people are desperate for an effective non-narcotic pain medicine. In the past various anti-seizure drugs and older anti-depressants have been tried for chronic pain. Gabapentin is just the latest.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
Thought I would throw it out there. It did nothing for me. It did not help my leg pain. Because it's not nerve related.v My issue is blood flow . And thats a pretty big deal. I had a sonogram and the tech looked very concerned but did not share. And the Cardiologist never got back to me. Now I am unemployed with no medical insurance. And a leg that goes out with severe pain after about 1 min of use - Like walkingQuote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Doc said my mechanical issue is related to my freakishly long middle toes. I've gotten relief once I went to 100+ last on my ski boots, cushioned insoles, and stiffer sole/ wider shoes. Right foot cleared up completely. Left foot I have to use metatarsal pads with a notch cut out of them and that keeps the pain at bay.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
As for gabapentin, I was on that for about a year for a seperate issue that was nerve related. It did help with nerve pain but it scrambled my brain as well. I'd have to think long and hard before going back on it.
Anyone have luck with calf stretching?
I probably said this before but don't go overboard on the loose shoes thing. What worked for me in ski boots was excellent heel and ankle hold so that the lower buckles are loose enough to barely stay closed (most of the time). My boots are 98 mm last, my foot width is D.(Tecnica Mach 1 130LV). In hiking boots, lacing so that the lower laces are loose while the uppers are tight (twist the laces around each other halfway up or reverse through the lacing holes or hooks to that the upper and lower lacing are independent).
I the same with hiking shoes. I lace them lose low, then i use zip ties to hold them together, then lace tight higher up.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
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I can agree with this. I just had some Nordicas blown out to make the forefoot nice and wide and then I compared them to my Salomons that fit like a vice grip and have a pretty narrow forefoot ( lower buckle is barely buckled). My neuroma feels best in the SalomonsQuote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Time to bump this up. I had surgery on my left foot, and although I still feel the bump in there, it never really causes me pain.
My right foot on the other hand nearly brought me to tears yesterday multiple times. Why is cramponing and skiing in hard snow so much worse than any other activity? I'd link two turns on steep hard snow and almost double over in pain. Skiing down the apron where I could ski by primarily using the downhill inside edge caused almost no pain.
I had this really bad a couple years ago. Could barely walk. I followed Rod's advice and fixed the problem mechanically.
1. Had all my ski boot shells punched out so my forefoot was not being squeezed. Then punched them again. (Yes you sacrifice a bit of performance.)
2. Threw away $500 in hiking shoes, work boots, etc., and bought all 4E wide shoes. Tough to find and I mostly ended up with dorky Sketchers. They make a couple ok hiking boots though. And 4E Asics from Famous Footwear are good and cheap too.
3. Started wearing toe separators every evening while watching tv or reading. Soft rubber kind. See photo.
4. Bought toe socks/liners and wore them when skiing and hiking. This (along with xtra wide shoes) does a great job of keeping your toes from squishing together, which of course is what irritates the nerves in the ball of your foot and causes the pain.
I was surprised all this worked. The pain was so severe at times I thought for sure I would require surgery. But doing all this before you build up a bunch of scar tissue is important. It is an investment and a PITA but all I knew was that crazy shooting pain every time I set my foot down was going to ruin my life if I didn't get it under control. Now I don't even wear the toe socks or separators anymore unless I feel some twinges. Then I do it a few days and it goes away. Bottom line is you need to stop your ski boots and shoes from squeezing your toes and forefoot by getting new gear, shell punches, whatever it takes. Good luck, it sucks to deal with but try this stuff before surgery.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6e0ca6d140.jpg
Good timing, I've been dealing with a self diagnosed MN for the last few seasons. After about 2 hours in anything but my flip flops or Altras it feels like a hot screwdriver is being plunged into my foot. Removing the boot is excruciating but brings near instant relief. Combined with snow and stepping on a convex hard object helps too. There's a near constant twinge in my foot, like hitting your funny bone that I can feel even barefoot and exponentially worse depending on footwear. During a skimo race this year it was so bad I almost quit on the last climb and realized it was from the compression socks I was wearing.
I've punched, stretched, custom insoled, neuroma padded, pretty much everything mechanical and nothing works. I do have a EEE+ and my whole life jammed my feet into shoes too tight. It feels like it's time for a professional opinion.
Do you start with a podiatrist? I'm in NorCal if anyone has any recs. Thanks for all the info here, super helpful
Ouch. Yeah it sucks.
Like yeahman I switched to all wide footwear.
But if you already have a wide foot you are fucked.
Switched to a wide forefoot ski boot and that helps. No punch.
But some days I take off my right boot at lunch.
Had a met arch pushed into my ski insoles. That also helped.
Haven’t gone custom orthotics in street shoes. Yet.
No surgery. Yet.
The pain is insane when it’s happening.
Good luck.
I self diagnosed as well. But never saw a podiatrist.
Once you read about it you know you have it.
I'm sure I've posted this before: If you have a low instep, over tightening the lower buckles to compensate for the loose forefoot fit it will squeeze the foot side to side and aggravate the MN. Adding some Bontex insoles is the solution. You want your lower buckles just tight enough to stay closed.
I recently replaced the liners in my Tecnica Mach 1 LV's. I got Intuition HD Race. Nice and snug around my skinny ankles, heels and calves, but roomy around my forefoot, despite being in a narrow boot. As advertised.
People looking for very wide forefoot walking boots, Belleville makes one called the “mini-mil.” It’s a minimalist shoe/boot, so that may bring other issues out with your feet. Their wide version is extremely wide. I’ve found them to be pretty durable given the cost and their lightweight nature. Size up by about half size because they run small.
Tried the toe socks and toe separators?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Murian
Curious if any of you have tried cryosurgery or ablative radiofrequency for your MN? I've been doing a bunch of reading and it sound promising. Not necessarily a permanent fix but worst case I may get 1-2 years pain free while I punch the heck out of my boots, get into wider shoes, etc. Quick recovery as well so I wouldn't lose much more than a week of skiing. Heck, I'm already losing a couple weeks while I wait to get into the doctor. Still hoping some of the other things I'm trying will work (some based on recommendations in this thread) but I have a feeling the scar tissue is pretty thick at this point so cryo/RF may not even be an option.
Never heard of it, but curious now. I’ve almost resolved myself to have surgery on my right foot now. I’m several years out form the surgery on my left foot and its still *mostly* pain free.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColMan
Good info here on cryo and RF ablation: https://www.mortonsneuroma.com/morto.../non-surgical/Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Sounds promising but only an 80% or so success rate.
80% sounds good to me!Quote:
Originally Posted by ColMan
That site is interesting. Says women suffer more. All those pointy shoes etc.
makes sense.
Attachment 444366
I blame Lange and technica. I jammed my foot into narrow lasts for way too many days. Oh well. It was fun.
Also reading about cutting intermetatarsal ligament to release pressure on the nerve as an alternative to a neurectomy. Less invasive but I don't like the idea of cutting a ligament in the foot of an athlete. Also doesn't work if the scar tissue growth is beyond a certain size.
On another note, I'm trying pulsed magnetic sessions 3 times a week to see if it has any benefit from a pain management perspective and to hopefully stop gimping around. Inexpensive so I figured what the heck. Had my first session this past Monday and it did jack shit, but we'll see how it goes with a few more.
Here are my recs from getting MN from a too-narrow pair of Dalbellos:
- Blow out/punch the first and fifth met (basically the wide part of your forefront) in all your boots. Do it now.
- Invest in footbeds with a metpad bump. Both for skiing and regular/everyday/non-skiing use. Sole makes footbeds with met pad bumps that I put in all my footwear. For ski boots, custom footbeds, but Soles might work too.
- At home, I have slides with a metpad bump. In summer, I swap for flip-flops with the metpad bump. This helps a ton for avoiding walking on hard, flat surfaces (like wood floors) that do no favors for MN.
- Add stretching your foot to your exercise stuff. Before/after skiing, etc. Don't overthink it - just move it around.
I went from horrible MN to almost never feeling it now. No surgery required. If you already are having MN from this ski season though, it may require taking off your ski boots for a few months for you (so, next summer) to see marked improvement. Nerves take a long time to heal. Suerte.
Very true. Surgery is a scam.Quote:
Originally Posted by meter-man
Mn starts from narrow shoes, mechanical issue, and it's fixed by removing that.
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Stretching, proper meta pad insoles and slides, never ever EVER walk barefoot anywhere has been my mantra with 80% success in keeping the pain at bay. If it gets real bad, toe separators at 20-30 minutes on work wonders for me as well.
And self foot massage especially after snowboarding.
I have Redi-Thodics Comfort Plus Met Pad orthotics and they are amazing. And from my doc they are $40/pair out the door.
ladd the metatarsal pads to the footbeds.
Got a cortisone shot in the nerve last Wednesday. Seems to help quite a bit but not 100%. Was able walk normally a few days later and also to ski for 2 hours on Sunday with my two front buckles unbuckled (only pain was when I moved my foot off the footbed while in line, no pain while skiing). Going to keep it to kid days for now while I see how things shake out. Boots finally getting punched this week.
I've had to blow out the whole 5th metatarsal/5th toe area on one boot. Added a bunch of room. SOLE also has good met pad insoles. Size them to the boot not your foot, otherwise they will take up too much space in there.
Intuition FX and HD race have plenty of room in the forefoot while having snug fit for skinny calves. My neuromas haven't bothered me since I started using the HD's. That's in Technica Mach 1 130 LV's.
Not a fan. Lots of on my feet lately and man this shit hurts a lot.
Well fuck. Just read this thread and I'm like 80% sure I have this in my left foot from a too narrow pair of Dalbellos last year. Had to stop mid run today and take my foot out of my boot it was so bad.
I spend 90% of my summer in Sperry Topsiders (almost barefoot) this is not doing me any favors? I never feel it except for ski boots, and then usually only when touring after about 40 minutes, then real bad once I transition and tighten my boots up (I forget if it was a problem in alpine boots last year but I don't think so) and this one pair of approach shoes on long hikes.
As its the start of ski season I would love to head this off before it gets worse? I suppose there is no way to heal it once it has started? Anything I can do before my tour tomorrow or is it best to stay off it until I have a solution in place?
Should I go see a podiatrist, or what steps should I take?
If you have any friends w recs for a podiatrist in your area, I’d start there. It’s an aggravated nerve and it’s definitely possible for it to go away. Sometimes toe spacers help relive the pressure
For me, a prp injection 4 years ago fixed it.
This after 3 years of trying everything else
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SLC mags?Quote:
Originally Posted by mcski
Did insurance cover that? How pricey was it?Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
Quoting my own post which you probably saw. Addressing the problem with mechanical fixes worked for me and continues to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
I started using SOLE footbeds with the met pad bumps in all of my footwear, including slides I use at home in lieu of barefoot. Don’t underestimate your non ski footwear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukonrider
For ski boots, I blew it out the first and fifth met heads on my boots. Slightly less lateral control but no more screaming pain. At first, I put met pad bumps on my insoles but eventually realized I just needed more lateral space.
I have no more MN pain. Maybe 1-2 days a year down from 120-150. No surgical or medical interventions. YMMV.
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Yep. Done all the above except for the toe spacers and toe socks
My custom ski footbeds with a sweet met bump combined with wider boots were a game changer.
Finally got around to using better footbeds in my now wide street and hiking shoes. Haven’t gone custom. But the cheapest A Line soles I can feel a nice met bump.
And yes. It’s only my right foot. Which I blame on JH. That whole sidecountry involves so much step up traverses on the right foot. And I did too many seasons on a really tight fit technica
And yes. I used to take off my right boot at lunch.
A bit of freedom and massage helps. Also helps to put your bare foot on an ice cube or snow.
PS. Hadn’t heard of prp. Interesting.
https://www.mortonsneuroma.com/morto...t-rich-plasma/
Insurance does not cover it. About 700.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcski
And also you need wide shoes
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