hardwood, engineered hardwood and pergo.

I have not read this entire thread, so I don't know if you made up your mind on the flooring material. 5 years ago I looked at replacing all the carpet, kitchen harwood, and entry tile in my condo, about 1200sqft. I looked at all the options - hardwood, tile, laminates, carpet, etc. I found an Armstong laminate that looks like hardware more than any other brand, It is also thicker than most laminates so the foot feel is solid like hardwood. I did a scratch and dent test on samples an found this Armstrong version the best. It has a gloss finish that gives the home an elegent look. With dogs running around and easy cleaning, the floor looks as good as the day I installed it. http://www.armstrong.com/flooring/la...loors-4911.asp

I installed the Cherry version throughout the condo - kitchen, dining, living, study, BR's, hall. Everywhere except the bathrooms. As for the kitchen, I installed up to the counters, under the stove & fridge, but not under the dishwasher. I'm on a slab and there wasn't enough room to add the 1/4 inch. But, you can't tell when you look, the finish is tight.

We were going to go laminate but were looking at like a month to get it. Which i could have gave a collective fuck. My wife on the other hand, was like fuck that. So we went back in and i found the same color i liked in a hardwood (engineered). double the money on the wood, but im glad we are going to do it. I really wanted wood not laminate. So here is what we are getting. Thanks for the advice all. I'm pretty stoked to see this throughout my house over the 10 year old crappy standard stained carpet we have now.

http://www.jfloor.com/product/produc...productId=253#

How do you know when it's time to resurface or sand your hardwood floors?

you dont have to as long as you take care of them and take precautions. I have blinds throughout the house, so sun is a non issue pretty much. I have 2 little dogs, but i crate them while im at work. They are hand scraped, so they already have that rustic look a little bit. I'm putting down rugs in the high traffic areas as well. It will be hard to find a scratch. They only downfall with the floors is i went dark. If i have all the blinds open you will see every little footprint, smudge, etc. Which personlly, i dont give a fuck. When i clean them fuckers sunday morning and sit down to watch football, thats when im going to be happy. I'm not a clean freak at all. If i get to see them suckas shine once a week, im satisfied.

NICE!

I dig the dark look. When our kids have finished ruining the carpets I think we're going that route...

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Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater

How do you know when it's time to resurface or sand your hardwood floors?

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When you sell your house and they are trashed. Otherwise, never.

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Originally Posted by RootSkier

When you sell your house and they are trashed. Otherwise, never.

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No doubt it's a pita job, moving everything, dust getting everywhere, moving everything back, etc. If the finish is badly enough damaged that water etc. are actually damaging the wood when you mop (mop?) or when snow gets tracked inside, etc. would be the main exception to Root's advice. We had an area that was so badly damaged by the dogs that it was like raw wood, so we had to do something, it was getting wrecked and it was right out in plain sight, not a place you could just throw a rug over.

Was that on your fir floors?

OK, let me be an ass: fir is not a hardwood, and along with certain pines, is probably the softest wood floor out there. Some people like the patina, though. Second, some finishes don't require an entire sanding down to the bare wood before reapplication (though if there was bare and scraggly wood, it might).

Antique recycled heart pine my brother. Harder than fir, softer than oak. Janka Hardness Scale. Supposedly the antique stuff is harder than modern stuff (which is what's on the Janka scale) because of the tightness of the grain and the amount of resin in it. They've held up pretty well overall, considering kids and four dogs.

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Originally Posted by iceman

Antique recycled heart pine

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What , it's not quarter sawn also ? Nothing worse than an ex wood butcher with a law degree .

Hey Cramer, check the nailing schedule for that floor. I'm pretty sure it uses a 18ga flooring stapler which is a little bit odd ball and the 1.5" staps will be bare minimum for the .5" flooring. Also let it aclimate and check with a moisture meter. If you post up or PM some pic I can help you with any baseboard, cabinet, door jamb, transition areas that you may have questions about.

I have putty pealing out in spots. Been in the house for about 2 years so I don't know the history. The floor is in direct sunlight for a lot of the day and we have three dogs. Can I just replace the putty?

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Originally Posted by iceman

Antique recycled heart pine my brother. Harder than fir, softer than oak. Janka Hardness Scale. Supposedly the antique stuff is harder than modern stuff (which is what's on the Janka scale) because of the tightness of the grain and the amount of resin in it. They've held up pretty well overall, considering kids and four dogs.

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Root is just being pedantic. Technically Fir and Pine are "softwoods". Softwoods are, according to definition, anything coniferous. Hardwoods are deciduous. Poplar which is soft as shit is a hardwood. Fir can be hard as shit yet is a softwood. Get it? Feel free to explain this to the salesman at the flooring dealer. They will be dutifully impressed :rolleyes2

Rev, they do make a pre-finish wood filler. How bad is the floor? How big of a gap are you trying to fill? Don't you live in old ranch house? Just let it go dude! It's called character.

p.s. I just skied with Cletus yesterday. He's old and fat. Wanna go to Europe next winter? I promise I'll make it scary.

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Originally Posted by mcsquared

Fir can be hard as shit yet is a softwood.

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Oh shit, hold on a sec, let me go put on my timberframe hat.

OK, here's the deal: fir is STRONG as shit but never HARD as shit. Big difference.

And it is true that poplar and some other hardwoods are soft, but as a general rule, hardwoods are indeed harder than most softwoods.

No shoes in house, shoot the dog, bury under hardwood floor.

no need to shoot dog, just humiliate him...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-x4vl5wY01J.../Dog_Boots.jpg

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Rev, they do make a pre-finish wood filler. How bad is the floor? How big of a gap are you trying to fill? Don't you live in old ranch house? Just let it go dude! It's called character.

p.s. I just skied with Cletus yesterday. He's old and fat. Wanna go to Europe next winter? I promise I'll make it scary.

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Pre-finish--meaning I have to refinish it? This thread is a top five buzz kill for everyone involved.

How is Celtus? I owe him a phone call. And if I go to Europe, I'm going to Amsterdam...and making that scary.

Or surgery and chamois on the prosthesis? Hell, belt sander attachements for the refinish would work too.


http://media-cache-lt0.pinterest.com...9623111f9a.jpg

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Originally Posted by commonlaw

Hell, belt sander attachements for the refinish would work too.

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Seems fair. Hey they're the ones who scratched it, right?

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Originally Posted by iceman

Seems fair. Hey they're the ones who scratched it, right?

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Friend's Uncle used to bite his dogs if they bit him. Turnabout is fair play, agreed.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Hey Cramer, check the nailing schedule for that floor. I'm pretty sure it uses a 18ga flooring stapler which is a little bit odd ball and the 1.5" staps will be bare minimum for the .5" flooring. Also let it aclimate and check with a moisture meter. If you post up or PM some pic I can help you with any baseboard, cabinet, door jamb, transition areas that you may have questions about.

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Foggy, im putting them in as floating. With me upping my budget from 2.19 a sq ft to 4.59 a sq foot, i had to compromise somewhere. So they will just be gluing the joints. I cant afford to lay plywood throughout the whole house. Its getting retarded expensive if i go that route. Yes, they are going to acclimate them for a 2-3 days then come in and check the moisture. Baseboards are already here, im painting them myself. Actually, my neighbor is going to do it for me. He's been wanting a bigger compressor, so i went halves on him for it. I am going to paint the interior once all this is done. I went with carpets 4 less of all people. He covered everything you talked about and im pretty happy with the deal he gave me. They are ripping carpet out, taking off baseboards, installing the floors, hauling the old shit away and installing the new baseboards. 2.50 a sq foot. The wood he pretty much took a minimum cut. The cheapest i could find it was 4.41 online and that was one place. Everyone else was north of his quote. So im getting 1400 sq ft of wood installed for 12,250. I pretty much dont have to lift a finger. I'm not sure about yout guys, but if you want my money, i want to hear everything you are going to do and not what you cant do. I heard alot of, i cant do this and i cant do that with our other multiple quotes. I told dude, all i want to hear is your quote and you are doing everything. He delivered so he got the sale.

I am more than cool with paying someone 3500 to do all the moving of furniture, rip my old shit out and haul away, then install the new shit including my base boards. And this isnt a small job. They are doing my main open concept living room, kitchen, dining room, den/office, 3 bedroms and a hallway. 1400 sq ft.

Sounds like a fair price. As you know, the time to be picky is before had. I assume that their is some type of pad that goes underneath for a floating installation? If you have any high/low spots in your subfloor, the floor will bounce. Have them be real anal about addressing the low spots with leveler, drywall shims, double pad etc. Also, make sure that the baseboards and transitions are down tight. These to things are IMO the key to floating floors.

Seriously, look into the self leveling moisture barrier. I have seen the results of not using it.

You will love the hand scraped. That is what we have, even in the kitchen. If you look at it at the right angle, you see the scratches. They are invisible otherwise. You will not need to worry about refinishing them. They already have built in character.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Sounds like a fair price. As you know, the time to be picky is before had. I assume that their is some type of pad that goes underneath for a floating installation? If you have any high/low spots in your subfloor, the floor will bounce. Have them be real anal about addressing the low spots with leveler, drywall shims, double pad etc. Also, make sure that the baseboards and transitions are down tight. These to things are IMO the key to floating floors.

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Yes, there is a pad and i went with a good one. Its not just standard one. They are going to pour the self leveling concrete if we arent level. He told me thats the one thing we may run into. I have a newer home, so i'm hoping we'll have minimal spots to fix. Thanks for the tip on the baseboards and transitions. I'll be sure to check that out as they install them.

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Originally Posted by warthog

Seriously, look into the self leveling moisture barrier. I have seen the results of not using it.

You will love the hand scraped. That is what we have, even in the kitchen. If you look at it at the right angle, you see the scratches. They are invisible otherwise. You will not need to worry about refinishing them. They already have built in character.

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he mentioned he may have to pour some self leveling stuff in. I'm not sure if thats moisture barrier. he said he'd charge 75 an hour to do so if we needed or i can do it myself. He said it shouldnt be more than a couple hours. if there are cracks in the slab or if its not level would be the reason to do it. Pretty much, we won't know until we rip up the carpet. Is it the same stuff? If not, let me know, i can get a quote to have him do it. Or is it that easy you mix it up, pour it out and it just levels itself out and dries? Theres a reason im paying to have it done, i dont know shit about houses.

No, we did the self leveling concrete first, and when it took too long to dry in some spots, they whipped out the moisture meter. It read 10 in some spots, which basically means soaking wet concrete all the way through. After jackhammering a huge hole in the slab, I found the source of the water. French drain was useless, and backfilling under the slab. I fixed it, but we opted for the moisture barrier just in case.


Watch for areas that are wet, if you live in an area that has that issue. Ask some neighbors if you don`t know. Make sure the guy you hire uses a moisture meter. If you have carpet now, you might have an issue, but it might be hidden. The water will just evaporate through the carpet.

The stuff I am talking about is yellow, and I believe they glued the floor right to it.

I have never laid a floating wood floor on concrete.

That said, there is a simple method to determine if your concrete has moisture issues: cut out a square piece of clear plastic, at least two feet square but bigger if you can. Tape the edges down with tape that sticks to concrete (e.g. Gorilla tape). Wait a few days. If there is any condensation at all under the plastic, you have a problem.

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Originally Posted by RootSkier

I have never laid a floating wood floor on concrete.

That said, there is a simple method to determine if your concrete has moisture issues: cut out a square piece of clear plastic, at least two feet square but bigger if you can. Tape the edges down with tape that sticks to concrete (e.g. Gorilla tape). Wait a few days. If there is any condensation at all under the plastic, you have a problem.

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I doubt moisture is an issue here. its pretty dry. That and our houses are built on lack of a better term, mole hill's. So they slope up probably 5-6 feet from the street level. give or take a foot. My yard has full drainage front back and side that the water drains out to the street. Its 90+ from end of april to end of sept. I'm no engineer though, but it seems to me it there should be alot less moisture due to where i live and the drainage compared to most areas including the greater part of the bay area. I think the main concern is how level it is once we rip up the carpets. As stated, we are built on man made mole hills. I have a corner lot, so im king of the moles. My driveway slopes more than anyone elses besides the ones on the corner like me. with that said, im going to pick up paint tomorrow, it wont hurt to pick up some plastic as stated and rip out some carpet and do the test. I'll do it in my living room which is level with the back yard. That would be the best chance of moisture i would assume?

^ You DO live in Pleasanton dont you!?!

after all that "Bay Area is better than Seattle" stuff, the evidence is mounting against you!

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Originally Posted by jfost

^ You DO live in Pleasanton dont you!?!

after all that "Bay Area is better than Seattle" stuff, the evidence is mounting against you!

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No, i live in BFE, oakley, ca. Pleasanton is for the fools who want to still pay a half million for a starter. I'm out chillin like a villian out on the delta. Evidence mounting against me? hehe. Warmer beaches, dryer snow, legal hookers, yosemite, tahoe, amusement parks, water parks, 75% less rain and im half the distance to vegas. Ya, evidence is mounting against me, lol. Hey if you're living the dream in seatown, more power to you. The ONLY thing i miss about the PNW is the steelhead. 10min and you are at a river fishing for steelhead. Other than that, i dont miss a thing. Sorry, you do have one major advantage now. Legalized marijuana. My wife wouldn't have much arguement for me to becoming a fulltime bowlsmoker again. I do miss those days...Roll a J, crack a beer and drift bait down the river waiting to yank a fucking fish out of the river. Oh the good old days.

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Originally Posted by cramer

I doubt moisture is an issue here. its pretty dry. That and our houses are built on lack of a better term, mole hill's. So they slope up probably 5-6 feet from the street level. give or take a foot. My yard has full drainage front back and side that the water drains out to the street. Its 90+ from end of april to end of sept. I'm no engineer though, but it seems to me it there should be alot less moisture due to where i live and the drainage compared to most areas including the greater part of the bay area. I think the main concern is how level it is once we rip up the carpets. As stated, we are built on man made mole hills. I have a corner lot, so im king of the moles. My driveway slopes more than anyone elses besides the ones on the corner like me. with that said, im going to pick up paint tomorrow, it wont hurt to pick up some plastic as stated and rip out some carpet and do the test. I'll do it in my living room which is level with the back yard. That would be the best chance of moisture i would assume?

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Sounds like it won't be a problem. I would test it anyway though. Tough way to find out there is a slow leak in the main, or the poop drain.

My neighborhood used to be mangrove swamp. You dig down a foot, and you are in some pretty hard clay and shell mixture. The morons that lived here before me had a french drain around the pool that was about 4 inches deep with decorative rock. The base was clay. The water must have just pooled up and sat against the house. The water eventually found it's way through a crack, and it widened. Every time it rained hard, the water from the pool area would run right under the floor in the kitchen and entryway. Guess we know why the PO had tiled that area. I was pissed. They really should have disclosed the issue. I will when I sell the house.

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Originally Posted by cramer

...Hey if you're living the dream in seatown, more power to you. ...

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grew up in SEA, now in RNO... a little different!

I think that you need to be selective about where you test for moisture, just because the living room is the "low" spot, doesn't mean there isn't trouble somewhere else (around a drain, sewer line etc) Warthog nailed it on the moisture meter.

Good luck! I can't wait til junior miss #3 stops crawling so we can do hardwoods, this crappy carpet is looking worse every day...

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Originally Posted by warthog

Sounds like it won't be a problem. I would test it anyway though. Tough way to find out there is a slow leak in the main, or the poop drain.

My neighborhood used to be mangrove swamp. You dig down a foot, and you are in some pretty hard clay and shell mixture. The morons that lived here before me had a french drain around the pool that was about 4 inches deep with decorative rock. The base was clay. The water must have just pooled up and sat against the house. The water eventually found it's way through a crack, and it widened. Every time it rained hard, the water from the pool area would run right under the floor in the kitchen and entryway. Guess we know why the PO had tiled that area. I was pissed. They really should have disclosed the issue. I will when I sell the house.

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ya ill have them test. I don't need to find out the hard way.

It`s actually really easy to tell. Your new floor will be sticking up about 6 to 12 inches in the spot with the moisture.:biggrin:

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Originally Posted by warthog

It`s actually really easy to tell. Your new floor will be sticking up about 6 to 12 inches in the spot with the moisture.:biggrin:

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lol ok, point taken. I'll make sure they test.

Attachment 135104

sneak preview of the kids room

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...69327153_n.jpg

sneak preview of my kids room. they knocked out a couple rooms and a hallway. Sorry about the post above. attaching a photo no worky for me.

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Originally Posted by cramer

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...69327153_n.jpg

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Nice, good work!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Sounds like a fair price. As you know, the time to be picky is before had. I assume that their is some type of pad that goes underneath for a floating installation? If you have any high/low spots in your subfloor, the floor will bounce. Have them be real anal about addressing the low spots with leveler, drywall shims, double pad etc. Also, make sure that the baseboards and transitions are down tight. These to things are IMO the key to floating floors.

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here's the pad we put in.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...91873964_n.jpg