I-70 is F@&KED

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Originally Posted by Summit

Uh... why would removing that chunk of rock over the twin tunnels at Idaho Springs spur such an angry response? It'd be better to have that be open instead of tunnels. Perhaps you thought I want to blow up Eisenhower/Johnson? Reread... I was saying put a third bore at the divide and use it for whatever... trains/new lanes...

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just fuckin with you :)

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Originally Posted by marcg

I feel bad for you front rangers in CO having to deal with that road. Definitely one of the main reasons I ended up Utah instead, trade off for all the quirky culture in Utah we have to deal with i guess. That slog up the 70 is very painful, it's amazing what a huge metro area that road services as the truly only means to get up in the alpine.
Unless you're fortunate to have a decent paying job in the high country or you are a trust funder you are screwed having to deal with that road unless you are ok with the ski bum lifestyle.

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SLC isn't near the size of the metro denver area and yes your access is 10x better...now if you guys could only clean up your air. Do you not have any kind of emissions testing like they in the front range?

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Originally Posted by guroo270

It's science. More voluminous roads attract more people to an area, they don't alleviate traffic.

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False. I'm guessing you just pulled that out of your ass. Most traffic engineers deal with traffic counts, projected counts and level of service of roads/intersections/etc... Im guessing there is a study that has been done to project future counts and needs to meet a reasonable level of service. My guess is that since the times of the shit show are only WEAKends and holidays they haven't had the push yet to get something done. As the base population grows the need will also for full improvement. My thought is to start now and do it piece by piece until you can get a road that operates at a better level of service. Will it cause traffic jams? Yes it will, construction always causes delays. But there are ways to mitigate that such as working only on week days and at nights. Work only during summer months as it is much easier for crews and far more productive.

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Originally Posted by Cold_Smokin'

Nobody’s disagreeing with you. Mass transit will certainly be part of the solution.

Train seems out of the question. Bottom line, you can’t get a train fast and cheap over the Divide. The technology doesn’t exist, and if it did, Joe Skier wouldn’t be able to afford the ride.

Huge proponent of a rapid bus transit, but you need more lanes to accommodate it. The traffic volume is simply too high to think a solution exists without expanding lane capacity. Long term, busses are the answer.

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I can see the bus idea being a really good one. Have buses that run from Golden to each resort or a mass transit hub in Silverthorne where other buses take people where they need to go. I'm talking a big transit station in Golden. People taking day trips take the buses and they start running them at 5 am and the last one leaves the mountain at 9 pm to come home on a Sat/Sun or holiday. If its affordable, less price than a tank of gas for a full car of people for each trip it would be realistic to think people would get on board with that.

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Originally Posted by BDKeg

SLC isn't near the size of the metro denver area and yes your access is 10x better...now if you guys could only clean up your air. Do you not have any kind of emissions testing like they in the front range?

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Oh yeah we got emmissions checks every 2 years for newer cars and every year for 10 year old cars. The bad air is only in Winter and it takes the combo of having a lot of snow on the ground melting and a period of high pressure/no storms...yes it gets pretty nasty sometimes.

These air inversions are naturally occuring but unfortunately all the other crap like exhaust, wood burning etc. ends up getting trapped down here. If you all had mountains on the east you would have the same issue with the air. These inversions happen even in places like Whitefish, MT but they dont have the massive population like this place does. Sucks, definitely one drawback to living in a valley with snow and big.mountains. It only takes a storm and it quickly gets pushed out, non existent in the non winter months. Pretty crazy though that we can have the absolute worst air in the country some Winter days!

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Originally Posted by Cold_Smokin'

Here's my solution. Two reversible lanes from Golden to Vail. That way you've got 4 lanes going W or E depending on predictable traffic patterns. The two new lanes are only available for vehicles with 4+ people and mass transit. If you meet neither criteria, you pay a toll. Not enough space in Straight Creek or Clear Creek Canyons for 2 more lanes? Find a new route or stack the highway vertically in the cramped quarters. Start up a rapid bus transit from Golden to Dillon and Vail Valley. No stops. No detours through Idaho Springs or Georgetown. Hop on an expanded Summit Stage to any of the resorts in Eagle or Summit and you're good to go.

It wouldn't be for the tourists flying in to DIA. They're not the root cause of traffic problems. It's the weekend warriors from the 4 million people along the Front Range jamming themselves into 2 lanes every Saturday and Sunday.

Fuck the train idea. The terrain is way too rugged. You could build a train, but unless it is cheap AND fast, nobody will take it, and I have a hard time believing a train could be build through the Rockies that goes 100 mph+. Build more lanes..

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Pay to play Gents. It's the way of the world. $1000 to travel peak times and so on. Money goes to BHO so can spread it around as he sees fit.

Do we know if they are going to open the new tunnel for eastbound traffic for winter and then do the work on the westbound tunnel next summer? Surely they are not going to keep the re-route running during ski season?

I’ve heard new tunnel should be good to go early December.

Westbound I70 through CCC will be a pain in the ass. Lots of dynamite to clear more space, or they’ll have to go elevated, like Glenwood Canyon. I think the 2nd option is more likely…

They aren't doing anything westbound.

The last meeting I was at said the tunnel will be open before the end of the year, the project though won't be entirely finished until early summer 2014.

The original plans were to leave westbound alone but there has been some chatter about expanding it to 3 lanes, probably not starting the project until April 2015 though if funding is found.

The new Eastbound tunnel is scheduled to be paved during the second week of December beginning on a Tuesday. During this time, the detour will be closed and the westbound tunnel will be used for both east and westbound traffic. It should take three days to complete meaning the new tunnel would be open for the following weekend........That is if everything goes as planned.

having just spent the last 3 weeks in denver I can just repeat what has been posted. You are fucked, deal with it. You can't build enough lanes fast enough to deal with the mess.

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Originally Posted by rmnpsplitter

False. I'm guessing you just pulled that out of your ass. Most traffic engineers deal with traffic counts, projected counts and level of service of roads/intersections/etc... Im guessing there is a study that has been done to project future counts and needs to meet a reasonable level of service. My guess is that since the times of the shit show are only WEAKends and holidays they haven't had the push yet to get something done. As the base population grows the need will also for full improvement. My thought is to start now and do it piece by piece until you can get a road that operates at a better level of service. Will it cause traffic jams? Yes it will, construction always causes delays. But there are ways to mitigate that such as working only on week days and at nights. Work only during summer months as it is much easier for crews and far more productive.

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Actually he didn't make that up, it is a well documented scientific fact, ask any actual first year traffic engineer or city planner, they will confirm usage parallels size within months, and nothing ever gets better.

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Originally Posted by BigMontana

Actually he didn't make that up, it is a well documented scientific fact, ask any actual first year traffic engineer or city planner, they will confirm usage parallels size within months, and nothing ever gets better.

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Perhaps some caveats may apply, but yeah ... Downs-Thomson Paradox and Braess's Paradox

There are not too many alternatives in the network to I-70, but there is the null case of people currently not going to Summit County due to the traffic, which might (?) invoke the paradox or negate the additional capacity.

A tricky problem seeking an ideal solution.

Yogi Berra had it right? That place is so popular nobody goes there anymore?

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Originally Posted by The Dude

The last meeting I was at said the tunnel will be open before the end of the year, the project though won't be entirely finished until early summer 2014.

The original plans were to leave westbound alone but there has been some chatter about expanding it to 3 lanes, probably not starting the project until April 2015 though if funding is found.

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There's a sign on the eastbound lane right before the detour that mentioned a toll lane. I saw it a couple of weeks ago but it's now covered up a bit more securely. Anyone know what that's about?

They have proposed adding a toll lane for Eastbound 70 from 40/Empire to the newly expanded tunnel. It is essentially the berm of the road being beefed up, but will only be open when needed. They've proposed doing the work next summer if funding can be found.

Imagine how much more crowded the slopes will be with faster access..

my solution: build two or more resorts north or south of I70 so people have other places to go and don't have to all take the same route up. Ie. create a sick ski area at Cameron Pass (don't they get 400+ " a year?), expand Eldora into a real resort, maybe create a faster route to Steamboat. Spread out the skiers more.
Or best yet..close the state

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Originally Posted by The Dude

They have proposed adding a toll lane for Eastbound 70 from 40/Empire to the newly expanded tunnel. It is essentially the berm of the road being beefed up, but will only be open when needed. They've proposed doing the work next summer if funding can be found.

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They should open the berms to buses only and get the resort areas to kick in and subsidize them.

What ever happened to the Breck/Copper/Vail super epic connect gondola?

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Originally Posted by The SnowShow

What ever happened to the Breck/Copper/Vail super epic connect gondola?

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That would be EPIC™

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Originally Posted by The SnowShow

my solution: build two or more resorts north or south of I70 so people have other places to go and don't have to all take the same route up. Ie. create a sick ski area at Cameron Pass (don't they get 400+ " a year?), expand Eldora into a real resort, maybe create a faster route to Steamboat. Spread out the skiers more.
Or best yet..close the state

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Not a year round solution. Summer traffic is just as bad, if not worse then peak ski season. A Cameron Pass area would be interesting though…

Mass transit is the solution. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Two reversible lanes from Golden to Dillon. Buses, 4+ HOV, or heavy tolls only. You gotta get a system built where you can hop on a comfortable bus from the city to Summit that’s both fast and affordable or else people won’t take it.

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Originally Posted by Cold_Smokin'

Not a year round solution. Summer traffic is just as bad, if not worse then peak ski season. A Cameron Pass area would be interesting though…

Mass transit is the solution. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Two reversible lanes from Golden to Dillon. Buses, 4+ HOV, or heavy tolls only. You gotta get a system built where you can hop on a comfortable bus from the city to Summit that’s both fast and affordable or else people won’t take it.

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agree re: the summer. I do like the reversible lane idea and buses....

I solved this problem a long time ago.

While the government toadies have been sitting on their fat asses talking about ways to fix things I went out and got re-educated and re-trained. Now I have a job that allows me to ski during the week and because I do it from home, home can be in the mountains so eventually I won't be driving I-70 at all.

I'm fucking brilliant. Who wants to touch me?

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Originally Posted by soups818

That would be EPIC™

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They should call it Skilink.... :)

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Originally Posted by Shredhead

They should open the berms to buses only and get the resort areas to kick in and subsidize them.

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I'd like to see them take all of the RTD regional buses that don't get used on weekends put to use. Have people park at the P&R in Morrison and Red Rocks for overflow, just load up the buses and take them to a specific resort. Buses sit there until the afternoon when people start to show up to head back east. I don't see the ski areas subsidizing the buses, they could care less since they know the people will come, but it would be nice to include it in the cost of a season pass.

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Originally Posted by Blizzard_of_Oz

There are not too many alternatives in the network to I-70, but there is the null case of people currently not going to Summit County due to the traffic, which might (?) invoke the paradox or negate the additional capacity.

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I've got a Cu/WP pass and will avoid going to Copper mid-season unless it's mindblowingly amazing there or if I'm heading farther west after skiing. Now if there were an extra lane or two to deal with the traffic coming back from Summit, I'd be there plenty. I know I'm not the only one who all but refuses to go to Summit because of traffic coming home.

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Originally Posted by Bean

I've got a Cu/WP pass and will avoid going to Copper mid-season unless it's mindblowingly amazing there or if I'm heading farther west after skiing. Now if there were an extra lane or two to deal with the traffic coming back from Summit, I'd be there plenty. I know I'm not the only one who all but refuses to go to Summit because of traffic coming home.

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Had that same mindset when I had the Superpass a couple years. Pretty much only went to Winter Park unless it was my Friday off. Now I just do Loveland. Avoid Summit/tunnel like the plauge on weekends.

^^^ yup, i had the RMSP last year and rarely stayed on I-70 until Cu Mtn..

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Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister

^^^ yup, i had the RMSP last year and rarely stayed on I-70 until Cu Mtn..

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So you're saying Bean, Soups and yourself would be part of the problem if road capacity increased :wink:

Lots of talk about bus lanes etc. How much would people be willing to pay for a return ride to LL/Basin or Cu/Breck or Vail?
Petrol for a return trip to Copper in an old Subaru is of order $25-30 (erring on high side). I suspect most people don't think about wear & tear, tyre use etc. though it should factor in.
If there are 2 people in the car, the bus would have to be sub-$20 to be competitive ... and some of you wouldn't be able to bring your quiver of 6 carbon skis. Anyone know what percentage of Sat/Sun traffic is single occupancy vehicles? Mostly I see 2 or more per vehicle...

But the traffic from Summit usually starts right near the Empire/WP exit. Sometimes a bit further up but depends on the time.

Two solutions...rent or buy a condo and avoid rush hours or have a flex job that let's you ski during the week

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Originally Posted by Bean

I've got a Cu/WP pass and will avoid going to Copper mid-season unless it's mindblowingly amazing there or if I'm heading farther west after skiing. Now if there were an extra lane or two to deal with the traffic coming back from Summit, I'd be there plenty. I know I'm not the only one who all but refuses to go to Summit because of traffic coming home.

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Now that the tunnel project is complete, how has traffic been for people during high volume? In three recent trips back, it seems to still slow down at the Winter Park exit but then opens up right before Idaho Springs, and then is fast through IS and to the tunnel.

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Originally Posted by The SnowShow

Now that the tunnel project is complete, how has traffic been for people during high volume? In three recent trips back, it seems to still slow down at the Winter Park exit but then opens up right before Idaho Springs, and then is fast through IS and to the tunnel.

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that seems to indicate that it is working. Because it used to get worse through IS, not better.

So far it looks like the tunnel project is helping. Traffic was stupid going up the east side of the pass today but cleared up around Georgetown. Traffic was way heavier than I thought it would be today but I don't think we've seen truly heavy ski traffic yet.

The tunnel has definitely helped things. A third EB lane back to the Empire onramp to mitigate that merge would be hudge.

Looks to me like the new tunnel not only added a lane, but also a pretty generous shoulder on both sides, and really bright lighting; probably all contributing to reduce "tunnel trauma". It does seem to be helping with moderate (there's that word again) traffic.

I think it's left to be seen how effective it will be during peak travel times, like this coming weekend when delays EB on the approach to the eisenhower tunnel, Plume hill, WP/Hwy 40 merge may well outweigh any relief through Idaho Springs.

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Originally Posted by bendtheski

Looks to me like the new tunnel not only added a lane, but also a pretty generous shoulder on both sides, and really bright lighting; probably all contributing to reduce "tunnel trauma". It does seem to be helping with moderate (there's that word again) traffic.

I think it's left to be seen how effective it will be during peak travel times, like this coming weekend when delays EB on the approach to the eisenhower tunnel, Plume hill, WP/Hwy 40 merge may well outweigh any relief through Idaho Springs.

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Of course it's not going to effect traffic all the way to summit. But often the only place there is traffic is from the 40 merge through Idaho Springs, that's what it's designed to mitigate. And during times of extremely high volume, it will only do so much, it's not going to be a magic traffic reducer, it's just not going to continue to be the pinch point.

only in radorado!!! you need to increase your driving skill set!!!!! kowalski lives!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x60...oint-1971_news

^careful, or we'll bring our junk-show to your neck of the woods!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyOYXDfvles

I'm a veteran of Garden State Parkway and L.I.E. shore traffic; I-70's for amateurs!

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Originally Posted by bendtheski

I'm a veteran of Garden State Parkway and L.I.E. shore traffic; I-70's for amateurs!

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very well said and the truth

everyone should goto the north east or mid atlantic to learn how to drive and see what traffic really is, 70 mph bumper to bumper will wake people up

there isn't a problem on I70, it's a made up white people of colorado problem