Brush with a smallish slide.

I'm no expert myself, but I don't think you're taking that slide seriously enough.

I know a guy who got caught in a "smallish" "fairly slow-moving" slide. He got run into a tree and tore both ACLs. Another party member busted a femur. They were a short hike from a ski area, in sight of the Interstate, and the rescue was started by cell phone around 10 am. The party barely made it out before dark with the help of search and rescue.

I don't think you're taking the situation seriously and I don't think you're following all the possibilities through to their end. Even if all that slide could do was break your leg, what happens after that?

But the way you're talking, I don't think you're going to take it seriously until it happens to you or your friend. You're pretty convinced you did everything right. Good luck out there.

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These two incidents, and other injuries I've recieved over the years, have made me more aware about what it would be like to be injured in the backcountry and the aftermath. But, as I've mentioned above, I could choose to live in such a way as to avoid such injuries during the sports I enjoy, but to do so would be to go against a lot of what makes me feel happy, alive and, well... me. And, to choose to live in such a way as to avoid such injuries as a result of an avalanche would be hypocritical of sorts.

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This statement is what is wrong with your whole paradigm. It's not about you at all.

Injuries are one thing, having to get you out of the bc is another story.

Are your friends prepared to haul your ass out of the backcountry? Dead or screaming in pain? Are you prepared to risk the lives of the SAR guys who have to come get you? I don't think that you are fully comprehending the consequences of your incredibly high "Risk Tolerance" :rolleyes:

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And, to choose to live in such a way as to avoid such injuries as a result of an avalanche would be hypocritical of sorts.

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I quote this part again because you seem to think that injuries and death are mutually exclusive. In the backcountry, they are not.

it is really hard to discuss this objectively isn't it - good on you for putting it out there and taking all the shit. Your risk tolerance bears out in posting on TGR too!

I think a lot of people's minds are blown by your BC risk tolerance, but the harsh reality is that you might die or you might not. It is that simple. Maybe the slide steps down, maybe it runs light & slow? Who really knows?

First, I must say that I really enjoy Summit's posts in this forum. I don't know you at all, but you always take a good, even-handed, logical framework to these discussions that I like.

I have not gone through all of this thread, but my only questions are:

1. That appears to be an obvious avy path below the cliff band (or at least the run-out zone from one higher up). Notwithstanding the lower angle you reference, didn't that concern you from a terrain perspective?

2. You mentioned you would have wanted to go deeper into your safe zone. What makes that a "safe zone" in your mind. I have no idea of that area or terrain, but it appears quite close to the edge of any avy path (in a year with a horrible snowpack with deep instabilities).

3. You mentioned smallish trees at the end of the path. Notwithstanding their size or the angle of the path, did you not think that in a worst case scenario, being carried into those trees could result in some sort of injury? What sort of medical training do you partners have? What is an evac situation like in that zone? Even a simple ankle sprain can turn into a nightmare depending on the location and circumstances.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Are your friends prepared to haul your ass out of the backcountry? Dead or screaming in pain? Are you prepared to risk the lives of the SAR guys who have to come get you?

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If I felt like I was truly risking the lives of SAR guys (i.e. due to hangfire, not freak accidents), I would turn away from the scenario. However, I try to be prepared to evacuate myself as much as possible (i.e. makeshift rescue sled, going out with multiple people). The friends I engage with in the riskier scenarios with are aware that rescue might be long and difficult, but I'll make a point to discuss this a bit more with them. Note that I say scenarios, and not lines, since I have to be well aware of this during my non-winter activities as well. Honestly, outside of meadow skipping, I think it's extremely prudent for every BC skier to be comfortable with having to engage in a rescue situation. You never know when you might make a mistake and shit will hit the fan. It happens to people that attempt to take far lesser risk than I. I'd like to put my money where my mouth is, and stage an accident with some of my partners sometime (both skiing and possibly other activities), but this is something I have not yet done.

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I quote this part again because you seem to think that injuries and death are mutually exclusive. In the backcountry, they are not.

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I'm well aware of this. It's unlikely that injury will lead to death, but not out of the realm of possibility. It's not just in the skiing backcountry, though, but during my canyoneering, climbing and backpacking (usually have technical aspects) trips. Most of the time these are in remote locations where rescue is difficult, often times in much more remote locations than my riskier backcountry skiing scenarios - especially when it comes to canyoneering, or some of the trips I've taken in the San Juans, Winds (WY), or Gores.

I've spent some time discussing this with my uncle over the years, as he's done some pretty remote and amazing things. For example, a plane-drop to climb a 23-pitch first ascent of a peak in a remote part of the Brooks Range in AK (likely the only attempt ever made). It took them 36 hours to climb the route, due to complications in the descent route.

I respect that most of you consider my risk tolerance to be pretty far out there. That is a perfectly valid opinion. However, I don't want to really debate my risk tolerance. I just want to learn from this incidient. Some of you have provided valueable input in this vein. Thanks.

maybe your uncle needs to explain things better to you.
getting hurt in the mountains=FAIL
you seem to think it is a badge of honor.

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Originally Posted by BFD

getting hurt in the mountains=FAIL
you seem to think it is a badge of honor.

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No. I pretty much agree with you. Getting hurt sometimes means just plain bad luck, but most of the time it means failure. I'm just comfortable with a higher probability of failure.

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Originally Posted by Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer

First, I must say that I really enjoy Summit's posts in this forum. I don't know you at all, but you always take a good, even-handed, logical framework to these discussions that I like.

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+1

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Originally Posted by Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer

1. That appears to be an obvious avy path below the cliff band (or at least the run-out zone from one higher up). Notwithstanding the lower angle you reference, didn't that concern you from a terrain perspective?

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I assume, by cliff band, you mean the upper large one? Yes. In fact, this was the location of one of the old slides that I reference. The deposition of the old slide was on the flat bench below the second (smaller) cliff band. Skinning across it made me nervous, but the path is short (50'), broken up by a few features, and thus, consequences were low. Closer to the entrance, this bench is less pronounced, and we took a great deal of care getting across this section, but the old slide (different one) in this area, with very little new snow on top, significantly reduced the risk. This old slide (as well as others in previous observations) was the one that gave us the best indication of how big of a slide we might encounter.

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2. You mentioned you would have wanted to go deeper into your safe zone. What makes that a "safe zone" in your mind. I have no idea of that area or terrain, but it appears quite close to the edge of any avy path (in a year with a horrible snowpack with deep instabilities).

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Heavily treed (unskiable) by old/large trees, all the way to the cliff band (the start zone). No flagging of any lower branches. If I were to do it again, rather than stopping below the old trees, I would pull completely into the forest. When I saw the width of the slide, I didn't bother ducking further into the trees, as I felt like my current position was safe (for this event, only).

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3. You mentioned smallish trees at the end of the path. Notwithstanding their size or the angle of the path, did you not think that in a worst case scenario, being carried into those trees could result in some sort of injury? What sort of medical training do you partners have? What is an evac situation like in that zone? Even a simple ankle sprain can turn into a nightmare depending on the location and circumstances.

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Yes, I was aware that injury was the worst case scenario. I don't have any formal medical training, aside from boy scout badges (not much). I have some knowledge passed down from friends/family and gained from reading about the treatment of common injuries in the types of activities that I frequent. Access to the zone is relatively quick, easy and very safe. Evacuation is relatively easy until you reach the base of the gully, where navigation gets tricky for a brief length of maybe 100' (forest and a segmented cliff band). My partners and I are familiar with several exits from that location, some extremely difficult, some moderately difficult.

Ok...so after all this.

Lindahl, EV laps on Monday? I may venture out there, but it depends what the snow and the pack do between now and then...and yes, I would want to do some lower risk stuff.

Just don't want to see you get F'ed up and I do respect your willingness to post up the last few seconds of your video and open the discussion on it (to the douches stating that the majority of his video is not worth watching, you are out of your fucking minds).

Lindahl, there are a lot of smart people posting in this thread. Some are very experienced. Some know the area well. Some know you. I don't think you are really listening to them, at least not very much. Every response from you feels like a justification or rationalization. I see very little reflection and consideration. I think you started this thread looking to learn, but your ego was looking for validation and it is getting in the way of your learning. I've seen it plenty of times before post-accident. One avalanche that comes to mind, two people were caught, one buried, and one broke his leg. The guy who was buried only had a few sore spots. He learned nothing and changed nothing. He reasoned around all the glaring signs he missed. The man who broke his leg is finally skiing again. He was humble and learned.

SNOW PITS

Your statements regarding the snowpit and your confidence in what the snow will do, even giving a confidence interval with hard numbers, show a smart mind that is overconfident from perceived understanding without the experience or education to know otherwise. If your mentors are teaching you to think like this, then they are bad mentors. I am not going to pick apart your statements piecemeal. It would take a lot longer post than this already is to cover your misconceptions. Or you could do a lot on your own. I do suggest that you start by rereading dino's post (the best post of this thread) and maybe look here http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...od-for-nothing

INJURY

When it comes to your outlook on injury in technical winter backcountry, you are just as overconfident from lack of understanding. Not to minimize your unfortunate injuries, but you've only had a taste. I will try to share some of my perspective. While I have personal injury experience too, most of my perspective comes from taking care of broken people in the backcountry, in the ambulance, and in the hospital. When I hurt myself in EV, I was lucky it wasn't my neck that broke; it was a sobering experience. I was massively overconfident that day from a large successful front flip the previous day; my partner had tried to reorient me, but I didn't listen and stupidity ensued. It was very unpleasant to ski 2500 vert of trees with that pain with only one tiny mandatory. I don't know if I could have done the small drop if it was my humerus that was broken. Maybe you could?

I'm wondering what your medical training is. I'm not thinking you have experience if you think you can manage some of this stuff, or can just learn how to dart your own chest and then do it.

WINTER RESCUE

If you think your buddies are going to pack you up and get you out, I suggest you try that as an exercise, then imagine doing it while in horrible pain over technical terrain. You are kidding yourself on self-extrication in such a situation. I dare you to prove me wrong. I once saw a guy move his injured partner down about 300 feet of nontechnical low-angle debris in 2 hours, which was impressive, but he had 3000 vert and a dozen miles more to go.

"Say you did an open tib fib one afternoon in Timber Falls. What do you think your next 3 hours would look like? Next 12? 24? Week? Month? Year?"

Briefly, 2-3 hours is a VERY optimistic timeline for the first SAR to even get to you. Lots of pain until then; I think you know pain. Hopefully, the bleeding is controlled and you don't freeze; it's probably dark now. Maybe you are getting circulation below your injury, maybe not. So the rescuers are there and they assess, treat, and pack you up. Maybe you get some painkillers if they have a medic, they can get an IV, and think you can handle the meds. That will help but you'll still hurt, lots. No pain meds and you will be in agony, blinding unbelievable pain. Hopefully you don't get DIC, bleed out, have fatty emboli, or throw a clot that gets in your lungs/brain/heart. Cold+Trauma=Worse. Then they have to drag/ski/lower you slowly through steep terrain. In most of those chutes, that could take a long time... many hours. 8 more hours seems VERY optimistic in cases with a few vertical lowers. Think you are cold and in pain? YEP! Think that is good for your injured limb?

Then you get in an ambulance, more needles, some heat, your ski clothes cut off and you are stripped naked, more assessment, hopefully more drugs, hopefully you aren't too hypothermic. I'll stop there and start again with another story.

ONE MORE STORY

A story of a smallish slide that wouldn't bury someone, caught one person who suffered a broken leg either from a rock or just the forces of the small avalanche. It was clear and sunny, but too windy for a helo. This person's story went a lot like the above hypothetical except the winds lightened and eventually the person was lowered to where a helo could do a pickup (hint, no LZ's in EV Chutes), so their journey from injury to the hospital took an amazingly short five hours, otherwise it would have taken 12-16 hours overnight and this person would have lost their leg at the knee.

Even with the five hours, the decreased circulation and the open fracture allowed a bone infection resulting in not one, but four surgeries over several months, long hospital stays, and unspeakable pain that left the person unable to walk for well over a year and unable to ski for over two years. They could not work. They had no income. They had to move back in with their parents in another state. I skipped over some of the gnarlier details of rehab and recovery.

Adding cold, snow, and technical terrain to an injury in the BC always means worse consequences. I have 100s more stories. At least a dozen involve death. I've responded to about 20 avalanches. Some I cannot even bring myself to post anonymized versions. I have seen the look on the faces of family and friends at the trailhead as they are told of their loved one's death. I'd hate to ever have a story about you. Your daughter would too.

THE END

Lindahl, if I was gong to give you a label, it would NOT be "stupid." You are very smart, too smart for your own good. You remind me of me and we'd probably have a heck of a good time chatting over beers. You are trying to out-think things that cannot be out-thought right now. Your label is more complex: "stubborn overconfidence due to rationalization from lack of understand and inexperience."

JONG here to say thanks to Lindhal for starting this discussion and to (mostly) everyone for sharing their two cents. I find the idea of backcountry skiing VERY appealing for, I imagine, the same reasons you all do too. That said, I'm in no way prepared, so I don't do it. Yet.

Some of you may not see it, but this is a good educational and eye opening thread going here for the unexperienced like myself.

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Originally Posted by N1CK.

Some of you may not see it, but this is a good educational and eye opening thread going here for the unexperienced like myself.

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Very much so, and glad that some people are getting a good thing out of a discussion that has at times turned to the utterly stupid by some trolls.

^^^^^^^^ Summit, very well stated last post, no doubt.

another good post by Summit. Who were you out with? Non TGR folk I assume since nobody has chimed in. I'm curious as to how many and if they all thought it was a good decision and what the conversation was after it ripped. My only advice would be that Timber Falls/Abes/Old Mans/Tweeners/etc.. will all be there on another day. If things look bad then just back down, nobody thinks less of you for saying not today. On days when you go to EV, look for reasons not to ski that day vs trying to come up with a plan to ski it...the results can be tragic and you are too good a dude to suffer any of those. Is the risk really worth the reward of a few good turns?

I am just amazed at the total conviction Lindahl has in all his statements: from the amount of risk of getting caught, to his "very safe" safe zone to his assertion that the injuries if caught wouldn't be significant. Blows My Mind.

Lindahl - when you think about how safe your safe zone really was, you might wonder how the guys at Stevens felt about their safe zone and think about how that worked out, just saying. What if you are wrong?

Did not read this thread.

Let me add this point. I think the helmet cam has ruined the internet. Although there are ample amounts of well put together videos, by and large, 99% of all helmet cam videos is like watching a captioned version of Ishtar. Another result is that helmet cam/blog fever trumps common sense.

JONG and bc newb here

read this thread throughout the day and just want to throw a +1 in there thanking the OP and others that have contributed to the discussion...tons to think about

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Originally Posted by Summit

Lindahl, if I was gong to give you a label, it would NOT be "stupid." ... "stubborn overconfidence due to rationalization from lack of understanding and inexperience."

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Agreed. It's arrogance, not foolishness - fronting like your a chess-master when really you barely know the game. Reading incident reports and the breadth of avy literature is important, but you're nothing without the raw mileage. Two or so years skiing CO backcountry - how many days, how many hours? Let's say you wanted to get yourself in the ski-guide pipeline, and needed to submit a resume. What would that look like? Gives you a chance to be honest about your experience, which is pretty barebones, it would seem. And I don't mean for this to be a personal affront. Hubris like this bothers me no matter its origin. To be fair, I see it all the time. Maybe it's an engineering thing. Too many have a fundamental lack of respect for nature and other critical uncertainties that define complex systems. And too often a high price is paid.. At least for you, Lindhal, you'll never have to ask yourself "how could this have happened". That won't be a mystery. When you roll the dice and lose, there won't really be any questions..because as you profess, you'll accept your loses. To some degree it's admirable..it's also totally insane.

Reading this thread is my brush with a rationalization expert and control freak

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Originally Posted by Summit

Lindahl, if I was gong to give you a label, it would NOT be "stupid." You are very smart, too smart for your own good. You remind me of me and we'd probably have a heck of a good time chatting over beers. You are trying to out-think things that cannot be out-thought right now. Your label is more complex: "stubborn overconfidence due to rationalization from lack of understand and inexperience."

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A- great post. We all pass judgment even if we say we don't, and you are providing your point of view without the youthful "I'm right and you're wrong" attitude that we have all fallen victim to at one point or another.

It might be sporting to disagree with some of your WINTER RESCUE line of thought, but I have seen you get made fun of for packing a ridiculous pack......and then bail out the shit-talkers with some random-ass piece of equipment nobody else bothered to bring. You can carry the risk tolerance discussion to a whole 'nother dimension on this issue.... Do you pack in 20 pounds of rescue and med equipment on a 15 mile overnight snowshoeing trip where your risk of injury is low but the remoteness would cause extrication issues just as bad as if you had been hurt skiing?



Blurred knows the area in question where Lindahl skied quite well. Would be interested in hearing his perspective....

not surprised one bit that you had this close call. based on where you've been skiing, i'm surprised you haven't had many more like it this season.

lindahl, backcountry skiing is no place for ego. even if your ego won't allow you to admit to us that mistakes were made, hopefully you can realize your mistakes instead of getting killed by your next brush with disaster.

Lindahl,

raining on my part of the Earth's crust today below tree line, so I read your long thread rather than rushing out the door.

1. Summit has taken the time to care. Pay him the respect of listening. Or stop using the word mentor forever. I'd trade in my dog for a backcountry ski partner like that in the town I live in. Stop taking it (him) for granted.

2. In the world of mountains that is not a big avalanche. In the context of human frailty, that is not a small slide. Be a risk taker all you want, I don't care, but you are a soft target and that slide is bigger than you are.

3. For all your analytics, did you bother to climb back up to the crown wall and do another CT? How did it compare to your original?

4. Based on your level of training and most importantly your accumulated days of experience making decisions in avalanche terrain, most Advanced practitioners would call you Entry Level in terms of competency, though refusing to listen, so acting like a person who is Unaware.

5. Try being a little more humble.

6. I thought Blurred had already posted in this thread, and I agreed with him.

I'm top of the new page, but there were some good posts towards the end of the last age that should not be missed.

Skiing and spending time with the girlfriend, so I probably wont have time to respond and ask questions till Monday. But I think its silly to say that I'm not listening or being arrogant and egotistical, given that I've stated in multiple places that there's several assessments I made that I want to revisit and spend some time thinking about. If my ego was truly in the way, I wouldnt have hung around and participated this long.

As I said, I'm not putting myself in the same type of scenario until I've had time to learn everything I can, so those of you that care, no worries.

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

Skiing and spending time with the girlfriend, so I probably wont have time to respond and ask questions till Monday.

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Where are you going? ..We want to watch. ..You know, take notes and shit.

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

there's several assessments I made that I want to revisit and spend some time thinking about.

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GoPro that shit, brah. We all want to see you "revisit assessments."

Sit down, turn off the GaPer cam and shut up, MORON.

I'm not gonna call you out because...well...it has already been done and your not taking it well but I'll say this: I don't know you because this is the internet and it doesn't count. You fit the stereotype of someone fixing to get hurt. Your risk tolerance, education, pit diggin' etc. don't mean shit.

The goal is not to get in an avalanche. Step the fuck back, take a couple of bong rips, ski in bounds or do some meadow skipping. You are looking for signs of stability not signs of instability. You are using your knowledge to justify bad judgement.

Think about it this way...would you send your girlfriend down that slope with no beacon on? No? Why?

Realize that pushing the envelope will get you in trouble because the margin for error is so low and false positive reinforcement is common.

Don't Die!
Thanks

WOW!!! WTF dood. I'm a complete BC / Avy jong. Come here to listen and digest. I've been around the block time or two and tested fate myself in extreme sport but not to your extent.

The way I read this is "I am so rad because I look death in the eye and spit in it so fuck you." The Evel Knievel of snow, but he made money doing it. If you're lucky, you'll be the fool that angels protect or die without suffering much. If not, you'll end up like Bill Johnson. I feel for your mom. You really need someone you respect to give you a dope slap.

the next darwin award nominee goes to...

avalanches only kill you if you fear them. heh. love it. hi cookie!

rog

ya never answered my what is sidecountry and why you chose to tell us that those years were different.
No skins? only from resort gates?

I wouldn't worry till you have a hard time finding competent partners willing to tour w/ you.
I know the list of bros I call is much smaller this year is what it is some peoples risk tolerances, percieved or actual skill sets and habits are different
Strummer ftw again

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

As I said, I'm not putting myself in the same type of scenario until I've had time to learn everything I can, so those of you that care, no worries.

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Lindahl, thanks for the vid and starting this thread! learning helps with decision making, but you or anyone else will NEVER learn enough to predict a slide or non slide with 100% accuracy. it's that simple.
i respectfully agree with summits assessment. i hope your good luck continues with any more OB runs this winter.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Think about it this way...would you send your girlfriend down that slope with no beacon on? No? Why?

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i like that. good way to think about conservative decision making.

i would. i hate my girlfriend.

rog

I enjoyed the VID. I would say you must have skied those lines many times in the past.

Regardless of Avi danger I woyld say you were flying without a net.

Not baggin on ya, I enjoyed it. But in the back country and leaving ZERO room for error

wow you are another moronic kid who just got off the bus and thinks he's super man

welcome to the mountains bro, you really hit it good when you talk all about how you can self resucue yourself and your partners

bad shit happens to good people and when it does it's not pretty

think about the decisions you have to make when the shit is going down all around you. Take the idea that your in a bad place with bad injuries you leave your partner rolled up in a sleeping bag, thinking he's all stabalized, you think the best idea is to leave him and go get help because a cell phone isn't going to save your ass where your at, sar shows up two days later because it took you over a day to get out and the weather was not good on top of that, sar finds your partner dead, you've lost a couple toes and fingers and you'll have to deal with your bad decsions the rest of your life. You'll become a case study and your partners name will go on the list of people who died on that mountain.

Stick around awhile this shit will happen to you. It's for real.

Then again slack country side country off the highway with a cell phone will always save you right?

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Originally Posted by Summit

I've had to repair a friend's exploded bindings in King A's.

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Such a Macgiver. And also in the buttcrack, fixed so good I went hucking! Stupid fritchis. A, you are absolutely the best possible partner out there, for a lot of reasons. :)

Thanks for clearing up that timber falls is the same as King Arthur. I've also been in there skiing over avy debris. If it weren't for the deep instabilities that I can't get my mind around, I would want to be skiing it too. Sometimes sick of skiing bumps this year. So this slide didn't step down, good. I've seen plenty of guys, my friends, make snow move in this fashion and learn a lot from it. I was glad to be able to watch and learn, although I don't have the same risk tolerance I guess because I don't believe in my ability to outrun moving snow. Ill always take a safer line that i think wont slide. Just like other guys I've seen, lindahl can straightline out. But I'm sure he's going to modify his choices based on this experience on the snow and based on everything people are saying here. And he is early in his backcountry career so skiing more aggressively than he will later when he mellows and finds a rhythm that matches the mountains. He will start letting the mountains tell him when it's time to ski a line and it'll be easy to say no on a bad day or even a bad season and not feel like he's missing out.

I've helped hurt guys out before, I don't have a problem with that if they choose that risk. There is always the possibility of getting hurt. And if you don't want to help people that are hurt or even get themselves dead in the backcountry, then don't do rescue. Cause that's the program. A, I know you are willing to help anyone, do whatever it takes to help. We've had this conversation before. I think your words to lindahl and everyone here are valuable,as far as the snow science and risk evaluation, spot on. It's just that I wouldn't use the rescue angle as a deterrent.

Jeez I had such a brutal day coming out of utopia on one ski, not hurt, but just so hard to do and time consuming. There were people with me that were really supportive and I'm grateful for it. And I am always wiling to help any partner and not tell him what he should or shouldn't ski. Of course I will say if I think something might rip out.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

You are looking for signs of stability not signs of instability.

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Oh snap!

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you"

Some biblical shit for your decision making process.

Fastfred and others, there's really no reason to be an asshole when commenting on this thread. Just fucking offer constructive criticism without being a douchebag.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Lindahl, there are a lot of smart people posting in this thread. Some are very experienced. Some know the area well. Some know you. I don't think you are really listening to them, at least not very much. Every response from you feels like a justification or rationalization. I see very little reflection and consideration. I think you started this thread looking to learn, but your ego was looking for validation and it is getting in the way of your learning. I've seen it plenty of times before post-accident. One avalanche that comes to mind, two people were caught, one buried, and one broke his leg. The guy who was buried only had a few sore spots. He learned nothing and changed nothing. He reasoned around all the glaring signs he missed. The man who broke his leg is finally skiing again. He was humble and learned.

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This really nails it right here, to the "t".

Lindahl, you are a FKNA awesome skier, and I love your hucking videos. I have no problem with what you did. At first I thought, "Well if you meant to do that, than whatever, that's cool." But,

I'll tell you what I experienced.

I had a avalanche incident just over three years ago, and everything I said was just a justification or rationalization. There was no way I made a mistake that day, everyone commenting was just a bunch of pussies. These people just didn't understand me. (I still kind of think that people, in some regards, are a bunch of pussies.)

But eventually, everyone's "douchebag comments" started to click in my brain. It really is just luck. There's no way you could have predicted, effectively, that the slide wouldn't have stepped down or ran wider, into your safe zone.

I personally don't care what other people do. It's your decision, and I don't understand why some people get so upset about it. I have at least the exact same risk tolerance as you. I flip off cliffs, I will solo 5.7's and I will otherwise engage in behaviors other people consider "too dangerous". I am 100% an adrenaline addict.

I guess it just took me a while to realize how lucky I was. I narrowly avoided death. Now I always keep that in the back of my mind when I go out touring.

I'm different from you though, in that I'm not strictly a "powder hound". I'm mainly a ski mountaineer. And my rationalization, NOW is that, "Well I can just come back and hit this mountain in the Spring." Don't get me wrong, I love slaying the shit out of untracked lines, but sometimes the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

Who knows though, I'm a big risk taker. Taking risks makes me feel more alive. I might have done the same shit as you, but I don't really want to venture into avy terrain all that much, this season.

I really can't fucking wait for April/May.

But cheers though, amigo. I also like hucking, so we will probably run into each other sometime at Vail. Just live for another day, brotha.

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Originally Posted by mrwaffles989

I really can't fucking wait for April/May.

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Seconded.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fastfred

bad shit happens to good people.

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yes, because the higher power wants the good ones all to him/herself. be a non humble dooshbag and you'll last a long time on planet earth.

rog

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrwaffles989

These people just didn't understand me. Taking risks makes me feel more alive.

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So what if 2 out of 3 of my trips turned into SAR calls, who hasnt had a few SAR callouts?
MORON!