Quandary Avalanche

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The AD

You probably need to be above a certain age to get this one. I imagine there aren't many movie projectors in schools these days. That sucks, too. Kids will never know the joy caused when the teacher lets you watch a movie backwards.

---

I always enjoyed the times the teacher fucked up and melted the film.

One mistake does not a "lousy Avy expert" make. Very experienced people get caught all of the time, more likely to put themselves into questionable situations.

If I may add, and I'm guilty of this myself, it's easy to sit in front of the computer saying "you shoudn't have skied it" or "I wouldn't have skied it" but I bet many would have different actions had we been contemplating dropping into that nice untracked shot.

Kudos to duph for communicating it to us so well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MOHSHSIHd

Once winter learns how to operate a beacon with paws she will be the perfect BC buddy! That dog will be ever loyal!

---

on a slightly related note - if people are going to regularly take dogs (any mutt included) into the BC, wouldn't some avalanche find & seek type training be good for them too? even if they aren't going to become pro avie dogs, it still could be helpful, provided they aren't buried themselves like poor winter.

not that this will help me any cause my Rott is far from the smart type like the one who dialed 911 and unlocked the door for the paramedics, he's lucky if he can find his own ass to lick.

I'm amazed you had the presence of mind to take all those photos...

You'll appreciate the next tour with winter all the more now....enjoy.

Great post, and nobody should hesitate posting this sort of thing. The knowledge is very valuable. The american whitewater affiliation keeps a database of accidents and deaths, so that others may learn from it- e.g. the geographic hazards of a particular rapid or river.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Thanks for posting -- A learning experience for all.

I don't know what an "Avy expert is". I do know that well educated skiers do get caught in slides. I'm not sure that it makes much of a difference, but an error is judgement is very different than a lack of knowledge.

---

Ain't that the truth. It's funny how people on this site diss the BC jongs, but time after time the statistics show that it's experienced skiers that get caught in slides and they almost always make some error in judgement. The experience often clouds proper judgement. By the same token, the days when I had no idea what I was doing and would ski a saturated 45 degree slopes at 4 pm on a 60 degree day were filled with ignorant bliss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The AD

You probably need to be above a certain age to get this one. I imagine there aren't many movie projectors in schools these days. That sucks, too. Kids will never know the joy caused when the teacher lets you watch a movie backwards.

---

It is now called Media Lab in middle and high school.

Was anyone in the AV club?

Thanks for posting, always good to get a reminder to keep your head up always. Glad it ended like it did.

Good idea giving the dog a beacon. Good thing she did not have to turn hers on to look for you. Great TR

Again, thanks for sharing. Rarely do you read first hand accounts with as much depth of emotion.

But I have a bone to pick with the board. So, snowfire posts a TR earlier this season, including various precautions they took, and gets flambed by the board. Yet duph makes several critical mistakes that many people are ignoring or justifying with the "even experience people blah, blah, blah". Seems like a bullshit double standard.

Two more rants:
Yes, experienced people do get caught in avys, because they are unpredictable. However, some avalanches are more predictable than others.

Also, I get concerned when people say "well the [CAIC] rose said X, you should have known conditions were going to be bad". With the weather pattern that Colorado had in the past week, you should KNOW what the "rose" is going to be. Even an idiot like me knew what the avalanche report was going to be before it loaded. The rose is a great resource, but people need to stick their heads out the window and use the grey matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iskibc

* I mean for this to be a discussion and not turn into a flame war. Let's keep it at that.

---

Exactly, there are lessons we can all learn from here in.

Duph - I thought that was a cool post. That's one huge-ass second chance. It humbling to me, for sure. wow.

Everyone have a safe winter! -Rock

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keoni

It is now called Media Lab in middle and high school.

Was anyone in the AV club?

---

And here I thought you were in the Labia Med in school.

I don't remember the snowfire incident that Mountain Junkie referred to. What happened there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iceman

I don't remember the snowfire incident that Mountain Junkie referred to. What happened there?

---

Basom thought she looked a bit like Christina Ricci and tried to project an Avalanche Safety movie onto her forehead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iceman

I don't remember the snowfire incident that Mountain Junkie referred to. What happened there?

---

here

but I like roo's answer better.

Jeez........that was a scary as hell TR.
Way to be in the aftermath though.
Glad things are okay.

Give the dog the good food, out of the can, tonight.

Actually, just get her a steak. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ireallyliketoski

Ain't that the truth. It's funny how people on this site diss the BC jongs, but time after time the statistics show that it's experienced skiers that get caught in slides and they almost always make some error in judgement. The experience often clouds proper judgement. By the same token, the days when I had no idea what I was doing and would ski a saturated 45 degree slopes at 4 pm on a 60 degree day were filled with ignorant bliss.

---

Let's not forget Bayes Law here*. THe most experienced people are the ones out there every day, so they're more likely to be involved when bad stuff going down. Probably does have something to do with the positive reinforcement loop, but I wouldn't be sloughing off the first hand knowledge that experienced BC travellers have just b/c they too are human and make errors.


*p(B|A) = p(A|B)p(B)/p(A)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bad_roo

Basom thought she looked a bit like Christina Ricci and tried to project an Avalanche Safety movie onto her forehead.

---

Ah, that explains it. Did he try to dig her pits as well?



thanks, homerjay

WOW...lesson learned...goood to know everyone made it out and your dog is alright...becareful out there

Duph next time I see you you're getting a smack upside the head ! Thank God you are ok but I might change that. Seriously though glad you and Winter came out all right.

page 5 ! I can't believe I missed this. I need to get back on here more often

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mountain Junkie

But I have a bone to pick with the board. So, snowfire posts a TR earlier this season, including various precautions they took, and gets flambed by the board.

---

Errrrrr. is it just me or didn't that end up as someone making a fundamental although not obvious error in snow science "shallow snow pack always = less danger". Then having an pro/expert helpfully and politely correct him and point out he'd conducted investigations into fatal accidents on the exact same slope in similar conditions. After some argument pro/experts advice was ageed with.

That exchange of info and education is far more useful than the normal "which powder boards are sickest this season brah" and should be encouraged.

Duph immediately sacked up and admitted his errors on the day in question so no one needed to correct him. That's why these posts are so different in character.

I am NOT being defensive, asshole.

Snowfire is a she.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Snowfire is a she.

---

my bad.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shamrockpow

Let's not forget Bayes Law here*. THe most experienced people are the ones out there every day, so they're more likely to be involved when bad stuff going down. Probably does have something to do with the positive reinforcement loop, but I wouldn't be sloughing off the first hand knowledge that experienced BC travellers have just b/c they too are human and make errors.


*p(B|A) = p(A|B)p(B)/p(A)

---

That's what so terrifying about this whole thing. You read these BC trip reports every day and with each passing TR it's just a matter of time before something truly tragic happens and you won't see any replies with glad everyone made it out okay. The odds are there and the further we progress tragedy free the more the odds are stacked against us. Please everyone be careful, powder isn't worth losing a little finger over let alone your life.

Duph you are one lucky bastard, with so many terrible decisions made and coming out unscatched that's your get out of jail free card. Make the most of it buddy.

Again, glad everyone was OK. Thank God.

Duph made mistakes. He recognizes them. I think he learned. Hopefully he won't make them again.

SAR was very glad we didn't have to go into the field. It was a dangerous day and it would have been unpleasant business.

Let's have another year without any dead maggots!!!

Here is Winter and Nellie (one of SAR's avalanche dogs) getting acquianted:

Sobering read, duph. Thanks for posting. It could very well save a life.

wow, glad you and winter are OK! always good to see these types of TR's (well, not really, no one wants to see anyone caugh in an avy) and the discussions that follow. i think that when one ventures out into their "back yard" (e.g. a peak/area one knows well), its easy to let your guard down. i know i am guilty of hitting the Donner Summit area solo w/my dog on lots of occassions - i know the area well, and the general rule of thumb in the Sierra is wait 2 days after a storm and all is OK (obviously, I check the local avy forecast first, talk to others that ski there a bunch and occassionally dig a pit, etc). It's easy to take for granted your knowledge of a local area and assume that its always gonna be OK if you play it safe when out solo, etc.

This was sobering.....Again, thanks for sharing and am so glad that you and your dog are OK.

Great write-up duph. I'm certainly not going to judge you. We all takes risks in this sport. I think you did a ton of really good things on the hill that day. I'm glad to see everything worked out as well as it did.

BTW, that heli is Flight For Life (one of our clients). We're filming an Avalanche Safety video in a couple of weeks. Sounds like you'd be good talent or at least have a good story to tell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by meatdrink9

BTW, that heli is Flight For Life (one of our clients). We're filming an Avalanche Safety video in a couple of weeks. .

---

you mind if me and the AV guys project that on christina ricci's forehead when its done?


everyone said what i was going to say. glad you are not drown. very glad. be safe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by basom

you mind if me and the AV guys project that on christina ricci's forehead when its done?

---

How's about a Bighorn sheep having it's way with the whelk projected onto Cristina Ricci's forehead?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by meatdrink9

How's about a Bighorn sheep having it's way with the whelk projected onto Cristina Ricci's forehead?

---

2 drops of pee....good shit mang.

I'll second the thanks for a great TR and relief that you're both okay. I agree with MD9 that we all take risks out there . . . is an expert skier no longer an expert if they huck a cliff without adequately checking the landing and end up injured, or worse?!?! Danger is inherent in our sport. Knowledge, experience, and judgement are invaluable, and repeating mistakes is largely unforgiveable . . . but we all get to a point in our lives that we continue to push boundaries, have excessive confidence in our situation, and need a "reminder" of what we know - on or off the hill.

Props to duph for sharing and, more importantly, for reflecting. And may you have many safe turns in the future!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kellie

I'll second the thanks for a great TR and relief that you're both okay. I agree with MD9 that we all take risks out there . . . is an expert skier no longer an expert if they huck a cliff without adequately checking the landing and end up injured, or worse?!?! Danger is inherent in our sport. Knowledge, experience, and judgement are invaluable, and repeating mistakes is largely unforgiveable . . . but we all get to a point in our lives that we continue to push boundaries, have excessive confidence in our situation, and need a "reminder" of what we know - on or off the hill.

Props to duph for sharing and, more importantly, for reflecting. And may you have many safe turns in the future!

---

There's a difference between being carefree and careless. Duph was the latter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by meatdrink9

totaly fucking amazing shit

---

i'm speachless.

that is pure, unadulterated beauty. i'm mezmerized. just wow.
beauty, a shit ton of beauty to the dome piece. fuck.

It snows like a foot and a half. All that snow on 3 week old rotten snow. Avalanche danger was on high, and there was an avalanche warning in the area. Dumbass goes out by himself, and decides to ski. Not in the trees, but in a open bowl with NO natural anchors. He skies a 34 degree slope, perfect for sliding.

Being a complacent backcountry beater will get you killed, you almost scored a Darwin award Einstein.

Don't ask me to feel sorry for him.....Glad the dog was rescued. You should be locked up for doggie endangerment.

Sheep vs. Whelk?

That sheep is drown soon.

Hope Christina survives, she should live to breed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tuffy 1O9

i'm the fake tuffy. hello everyone. i'm not real. i'm pretending.

---

..........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

There's a difference between being carefree and careless. Duph was the latter.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The fake tuffy

It snows like a foot and a half. All that snow on 3 week old rotten snow. Avalanche danger was on high, and there was an avalanche warning in the area. Dumbass goes out by himself, and decides to ski. Not in the trees, but in a open bowl with NO natural anchors. He skies a 34 degree slope, perfect for sliding.

Being a complacent backcountry beater will get you killed, you almost scored a Darwin award Einstein.

Don't ask me to feel sorry for him.....Glad the dog was rescued. You should be locked up for doggie endangerment.

---

A faint resemblance? I hope not. You have more integrity than this Blurred, regardless of what you do with your other aliases (aliai?).

Glad you and Winter made it out alright. That's a very sobering picture and a very sobering story, specially for someone who wants to begin doing non-guided BC stuff this season in the US.