knee update

good going on the rehab! Glad the meniscus and other tissues are not too damaged. Keep the updates coming. All the injured folks on this thread: rehab like altagirl! go! go! go!

About rallying the Suby I say Yes! Good fun. I don't formally rally but when I can't ski etc. I drive plenty silly on select, twisty, dead end, (after dark, sweep down to check for traffic and drive silly up, repeat) snow covered roads. I do credit doing so with becoming skilled in 'unusual driving circumstances' that enabled me to avoid getting into a wreck with a big elk one snowy night out in the middle of nowhere and not over-correcting and loosing it.

Thanks! Well something (acupuncture/neoprene sleeve/celebrex, maybe all of the above) is helping. I had 2cm of swelling on Monday, and on Thursday after my 2nd acupuncture session I had .6cm of swelling (mid-patella measurement). ROM was 2-127 on Thursday (we worked flexion first and that was an improvement, not to mention it's easier to switch from flexion to extension), and then 0 (yay!) to 121 yesterday. I was only supposed to have 2 PT visits this week but the therapist said I could stop in when they weren't busy yesterday and we'd just work extension. The flexion was just a quick stretch and measurement - she didn't write it down because we didn't work on it and patients that were actually scheduled started coming in.

But I'm feeling better about progress on both ends of ROM. :) I'm off to the gym and acupuncture. And after looking up the weather for Mr.AG I don't think I'm missing out on skiing today either.

Way to go AG. Keep the posts coming. You have no idea how much it helps those of us still in your wake. It's good to be able to anticipate the emotions that will be inevitable, and hopefully take steps to head off their deliterious effects. It sound like you're doing awesome, and just need to take a step outside of yourself, and view things rationally. You're waaaay above average, but still human, and healing takes time. Some things are out of our control. Just take care of the things that you can control. You seem much more than capable of that.

I'm at about 6 weeks now. Haven't done an update in a while so...

Just got back from PT. Extension is back to being good. I can fairly easily get zero on my own, the therapist can push it into hyperextension. Phew. No more serious pain involved in that - just a little uncomfortable.

Since I needed to work on both, I've been starting with one or the other. Today was an extension day. Did extension no problem, then worked all my quad exercises right afterwards, then did balance work, rode the bike and worked on flexion, then hamstring stuff. I could only get to 120 today, which sucked. Therapist keeps telling me to chill out, that it's tough to do both well in the same session (well, for my stiff PITA knee anyway) and I'll be back to 130 on Wednesday when I start with flexion. I think from now on I'll be fine starting with flexion every time I'm at PT.

I'm finally allowed to use the regular leg press at the gym - 60lbs (single leg) feels good but she wants me to up the weight slowly, so that's where I'm at. A week or so before I hurt it I was doing like 450 on the sled (though that was with both legs) so it's feeling pretty wussy, but gotta start somewhere.

I've been doing 2 hours of cardio a day, split between elliptical, treadmill, bike and stairmaster. I took the day after Thanksgiving off of cardio completely, for the first time in.... I don't know, a long time. But I just needed a break - I was getting sick as hell of being in the gym, and probably spent too much time standing cooking dinner, but it turned out awesome and it was great seeing everyone. The break did me good. Now the gym is feeling fun again, and I was able to spin fast enough this morning to almost get my HR up pretty well.

Balance is going really well and we've pretty much run out of things for me to add to the routine. My legs are almost feeling equal on balance. I went and bought a new toy over the weekend - like a stability ball but like 14" wide and about 4" high - stand on it and it's like standing on a waterbed.

And that's about it. I'm off to the gym.

Congrats AG sounds like you are killin it at rehab. And your PT is right don't get too reved up about those numbers. They will come back in time as the swelling goes down and it is better not to rush them anyway.

I love the balance stuff. I have been doing some myself to get ready for the season, mostly with a BOSU ball. It is basically an exercise ball cut in half, mounted on a flat platform and inflated so that you can stand on it. Lots of fun. Also been using our ski fitter to get that muscle memory firing again.

Keep at it and don't rush it, it will all come together.

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Originally Posted by Vinman

Congrats AG sounds like you are killin it at rehab. And your PT is right don't get too reved up about those numbers. They will come back in time as the swelling goes down and it is better not to rush them anyway.

I love the balance stuff. I have been doing some myself to get ready for the season, mostly with a BOSU ball. It is basically an exercise ball cut in half, mounted on a flat platform and inflated so that you can stand on it. Lots of fun. Also been using our ski fitter to get that muscle memory firing again.

Keep at it and don't rush it, it will all come together.

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Thanks! Means a lot to hear that from you!

I love the balance work too - this time I'm starting a collection of balance exercise equipment so I can keep working on it all the time.

I was looking at a BOSU ball, but my PT said I should hold off on getting that one for a bit since it's a little higher up and if I manage to fall off of it, it could be bad news. So I'm starting with the SPRI Xerdisc for now - it's lower to the ground but still fairly challenging.

I'm also going to pick up one of those mini trampolines on e-bay. Not to jump on, but to set at an angle out on the deck. Then you throw a weighted ball - like the size of a softball but plastic and filled with sand so it weighs like 3lbs - and bounce the ball off the trampoline from like 10 feet away while standing on one leg (when that's easy stand on a pillow, or the Xerdisc or whatever). That was one of my favorite exercises at the PT clinic I went to when I was in the Army. I found the weighted balls on e-bay for like $10, and it looks like a cheapo trampoline is around $20. We'll have the AG rehab clinic going on by the time I'm done.

Which is a good thing... Oh, I forgot to mention, I guess our dog felt left out. He sprained his tail on Thanksgiving, wrestling with his brother and a couple other labs over at Rotney's house. Unbelieveable. The next morning his tail was hanging straight down and he wouldn't sit down - he'd just hover and flop on his side. Vet said he must have had his tail up in the air and flipped over backwards on it - the bones are too small to break, so he must have torn some ligaments. So he's on anti-inflammatories and doing much better. It was so bizarre to see a dog that never stops wagging his tail with it just hanging there. Anyway, I wish I healed as fast as he does...

I was wonderin when you were gonna update this!!

Sounds great! So at 6 weeks it sounds like you're doin pretty good. I'll be at 2 weeks out tomorrow....and you're post has me really stoked at what's to come. Meaning, I can't wait to get the F on a bike, stairs, weights, all that shiz....

I can't wait to get on the bosu balls. I was talkin with my PT about ski specific exercises we can do wwaaaaayyy wwwaaayyy down the road from now and one of them involved sitting up a bunch of bosu's, and then I'd have to parallel hop from ball to ball down a hallway while keep my upper body completely still. We talked about doin the medicine ball / little trampoline thang to. I'm lookin forward to it. Thanks for the update.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces

I was wonderin when you were gonna update this!!

Sounds great! So at 6 weeks it sounds like you're doin pretty good. I'll be at 2 weeks out tomorrow....and you're post has me really stoked at what's to come. Meaning, I can't wait to get the F on a bike, stairs, weights, all that shiz....

I can't wait to get on the bosu balls. I was talkin with my PT about ski specific exercises we can do wwaaaaayyy wwwaaayyy down the road from now and one of them involved sitting up a bunch of bosu's, and then I'd have to parallel hop from ball to ball down a hallway while keep my upper body completely still. We talked about doin the medicine ball / little trampoline thang to. I'm lookin forward to it. Thanks for the update.

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Once you can start passing some time on the cardio machines without it being a stretching exercise... it'll feel soooo good. Heh - take some time now to download music to keep yourself entertained.

That sounds like a really cool idea with the bosu's for way in the future. I saw a girl at the gym today doing jumping lunges with like 30 lbs of weights. Like she'd leap up like a foot in the air and land in the opposite lunge - and do like 15 of them as fast as possible. Damn. I wanna do that! Then she took a 45lb plate and was doing stationary hops. Jesus. I talked to her in the locker room and she had an ACL done 6 years ago. I love hearing that. :)

Oh, and another thing I did at PT today - when I was feeling like crap working flexion doing wall slides and such, I grabbed a stability ball, laid on my back on the floor, put my toes on the ball and rolled it in, squeezing my hamstrings. I was at like 105 on the wall, and got to 120 rolling the ball in a matter of minutes. Just a thought if you're feeling like you're going insane with the wall slides. Same concept worked for me when I was having trouble with extension - I went to an active extension exercise, where I used the little e-stim machine you use for quad sets but did them standing with a theraband behind my knee for resistance, leaned forwards and concentrated on the stretch in my hip and could get to zero pain free (on a day when sitting in the floor with a therapist pushing down on my knee wasn't getting me there - just causing tears). Maybe it's just me, but I tend to fight the stretching when I'm trying to relax, so finding a way to do it where I'm making my opposing muscles work in the right direction is more successful (I guess I'd rather focus on muscle burn than plain old pain). I guess that's not typical, but if you get stuck with the normal stretching it's worth a try.

So I'm at 8 weeks tomorrow.

As of Friday, I had:
2 degrees hyperextension (yay!)
133 degrees flexion (meh...)
.7cm swelling at mid-patella (which is hindering the flexion)
1 cm atrophy (excellent - they expect 2-4cm)

I saw my doc today for a follow up. He said my knee feels rock solid. I should be getting fitted for my new Defiance in the next 2 weeks. And he said that as long as I stick to going in straight lines and don't wreck, I can XC ski, though he prefers I wait until I get the brace. I can do that.

He also lifted the restrictions on weightlifting, so as long as I'm careful he said I can pick up and carry whatever weight I want, do whatever I want for upper body, etc. And he cleared me for SLDL's and such (well, to be honest I've been doing those with light weight for a while) but he said I can increase the weight gradually - no weight restrictions on leg press, just to keep increasing gradually and make sure I have no pain. I'm up to 85lbs on that (one-legged). Getting there...

Stairs feel fine as long as I'm kindof sideways - I get a little patellar tendon pain trying to do them straight unless it's a smaller step, which PT says is due to the swelling interference. It's gradually improving though.

And that's about it. Finally sleeping totally normally. No pain really except when I'm stretching. Just got to get rid of the dang swelling. I don't have another follow up until 5 months - which is mid March. And hopefully I'll get some "you can ski groomers" or something about then. Fingers crossed.

Nice AG..thanks for the update. That's awesome that your doc says your knee feels solid and that he lifted the weight restrictions.

Very nice AG. Reading your knee update is really helping me right now. You are only 8 weeks out and have made great progress. Keep it up.

Right on, AG! I was wondering if light xc was going to be an acceptable acivity, that's awesome!

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Originally Posted by Arnold Babar

Right on, AG! I was wondering if light xc was going to be an acceptable acivity, that's awesome!

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Yeah, I'm psyched about that too - even with the no turning and stay on flat stuff - I can't wait... Hell I was trying to convince my PT that I could/should be able to put on my tele gear and do lead changes/lunges in place in the snow in the backyard. Of course now all the damn snow in the yard melted... but she thought I was insane since she'd never heard that kind of request before. Hell, I just figure it's outdoors and on the snow... it would have to feel good.

I wish I already had my new brace but I guess I can survive another couple of weeks of waiting. It'll really be more like 3 months by the time I have it in hand. I am keeping busy doing real estate courses now too, so that helps.

Heh. You have the best attitude. :)

Why does the brace take so long, and why can't they order it earlier? Am I going to have to wait that long too? (it's all about me). I should get them going on it now. I want my brace now :cussing:

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Originally Posted by Arnold Babar

Heh. You have the best attitude. :)

Why does the brace take so long, and why can't they order it earlier? Am I going to have to wait that long too? (it's all about me). I should get them going on it now. I want my brace now :cussing:

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It only takes a few days for them to actually make the brace. The time delay is that they have to put in the order with the insurance company, who sends an approval to the DME company who actually does the transaction with the brace company. Once it's approved, you get to meet with the orthotist/brace fitter, who measures you and puts in the order for the brace. Then you meet with him again once it comes in and actually get your new custom brace. They estimate 1.5-2 weeks before I'll get to meet with the brace fitter. But it may vary depending on your insurance company and brace fitter's schedule, etc.

Ordering it too early is bad, because you'll still be building muscle back, most likely and while Donjoy offers one re-fit within 6 months, you want it to work, and there's no sense in getting it before you're going to be doing some activity where you need it. Not to mention, getting it earlier probably would encourage you to do stuff you're not ready for either...

13.5 week update:

Picked up my two shiny new yellow DJ Defiances yesterday. They built me a brand new one for my left leg too (since I lost weight it wasn't fitting right anymore). Luckily insurance covered 100% for both. Yay! Can't wait to use them for something...

I started running a bit last week. Not that I plan on doing much running at all, but about 2 weeks ago I was late for something, ran down the hall and realized that while running didn't hurt - my body didn't seem to remember how to do it at all. So at 12 weeks I decided to do a 2 minute jogging on the treadmill test - next to the mirror at the gym so I could watch myself, hang on to the rails and get my body to do what it's supposed to. Knee felt fine then and the next day - feet felt like crap. Which would be because my running shoes were several years old and I shouldn't be running in them. I went down to Salt Lake Running Co. where they did video analysis of me running on the treadmill to make sure my ankles were staying straight, etc. Which was cool. And I got some new super cushioned running shoes. I'm still just doing little 2 minute segments of running every few days to break up the endless elliptical trainer and bike sessions. But it feels as good as it possibly could seeing as how I haven't gone running in 5 years or so...

I went to PT yesterday. We didn't even measure formally, but since I can contract my quads and get my heels virtually identically far off of the ground, we called that good and when I contract my hamstrings I get my heels equally close to my butt, and I'm fully squashing calves against hamstrings, we called that good too. If I try sitting on my heels, my left knee is more flexible, but since that's not necessarily good for either knee she said not to worry about it. Best thing is that getting to that point in either direction involved no pain whatsoever. We pretty much came to the conclusion that I was pushing myself too hard before on ROM. Every time I worked ROM, I made my knee swell up and it then was a nightmare just to get back to where I was a few days ago. Leave it alone more and it just naturally regained ROM.

Strength wise - I'm doing 130lb single leg presses (still only working the surgical leg) and regular 65lb stiff legged deadlifts - about every other day or every 2 days depending on if I still have soreness, + 45-90 min of cardio a day. I still have about .75cm of atrophy in my quad. Calves are identical. I've been doing cariocas and box drills and such. Yesterday we added some star pattern mini-lunges and side to side stalls. Still using the xerdisc at home for balance work regularly.

And that's about it. I've been super busy with work and getting my Real Estate License lately, so I'm looking forward to getting a chance to do some XC skiing this weekend when I have some time off.

:D

Woohoo!

My hamstrings are at equal strength again! :) I haven't been working my "good" leg at all (well except for stiff legged deadlifts and all the cardio I've been doing) until last night when I decided they were starting to feel about the same and tested out single leg hamstring curls and both legs max out at right about the same weight/reps, and then doubling it and doing dual leg sets worked fine too. Quads aren't quite there yet, but they're coming along. I did some XC skate skiing the other day. God damn is that a workout. I quit as soon as my muscles started feeling shaky - didn't want to risk anything, but it felt good. And I've been cranking up the resistance on cardio lately and doing more stepmill and backwards/high incline treadmill to try and hit my quads. If I push too hard I start to notice slight patellar tendon twinges, which scares me (don't want to have to take time off for tendonitis or anything...) So I've been trying to be careful and not go too crazy...

And in other news... real estate license exam is done! :D

just checking in here, glad to see how far along your progress has come, hopefully a day on snow is not that far away, and then again neither is mtb season.

Keep up the good work, definitely a inspiration for those on the mend.

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Originally Posted by Crinkle

just checking in here, glad to see how far along your progress has come, hopefully a day on snow is not that far away, and then again neither is mtb season.

Keep up the good work, definitely a inspiration for those on the mend.

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I'm thinking Day 1 back is going to be March 8. Seeing as how that's when I can ski Deer Valley for free with work. DV groomers should be a good first day back, no? :)

Nice. Hey how did you find x-country for the first time since injury? Did you do much of it? Did it help? Any close calls of re-injury? I'm getting stronger, and every time i get on the bike it's better and better. Wouldn't mind maybe gettin' some smoove x-country in. Have fun at Deer Valley.

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Originally Posted by altagirl

I'm thinking Day 1 back is going to be March 8. Seeing as how that's when I can ski Deer Valley for free with work. DV groomers should be a good first day back, no? :)

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Can you spell Happy Birthday Nohills in the snow for me?

Have fun!

I just read this and it made me feel nervous/inspired at the same time. I can't believe I've joined the club, but am glad to have this place as a resource!

Some good tips in here though, that's for sure!!!

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Originally Posted by altagirl

I'm thinking Day 1 back is going to be March 8. Seeing as how that's when I can ski Deer Valley for free with work. DV groomers should be a good first day back, no? :)

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Looking forward to seeing you in the collins lineup shortly thereafter, AG :biggrin:

I think the XC helps. Works my leg muscles (well all my muscles) differently than anything I've been doing in the gym. The first day on them I was a little nervous and feeling off balance every now and then - though I'm not sure how much of that was being off balance vs. not being used to itty bitty skis under my feet. I just made sure I was careful, stayed in the track for the first few days, and quit before my legs competely turned to jello and it was all good. My quads and hip flexors and glutes hurt more than my knees did. I've been meaning to go up a few times this week but I've been hacking up a lung with whatever this crappy flu thing is.

Anyway, last week... (I'm not sure I should even admit to this... I'm seriously a dork) I broke out the tele gear and made a loop around our (completely flat, mind you) backyard. The dog found it highly entertaining. I pretty much just wanted to see what it would feel like to drop a knee (in place) and make lead changes - it felt pretty good and didn't hurt afterwards at all, but I wasn't being very aggressive with it - just testing things out and getting snow on my skis...

Anyway, they pushed ski day back to March 11. So that's the day now. And then I figure I'm going to start taking advantage of "ski free after 3". :D

Your recovery seems remarkable. But I'm sure you've put in a ton of effort to get there. :yourock:

You might as well ski for a while. It will be Aug. before the snow melts around here, so we can ride the trails. :wink:

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Originally Posted by altagirl

I think the XC helps. Works my leg muscles (well all my muscles) differently than anything I've been doing in the gym. :D

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When I had my ACL done the XC skiing was a huge difference. Lots of work on weights but then going out and using the muscles in a coordinated fashion (open chain?) was a big part of getting on skis earlier.

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Originally Posted by GT40

You might as well ski for a while. It will be Aug. before the snow melts around here, so we can ride the trails. :wink:

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Thanks GT! I can't wait to ski....

Mr.AG and I went out to 5 mile pass today and rode dirt bikes. :D :D :D :D
Just took it fairly slow on the easier/intermediate stuff for a couple hours. Knee felt absolutely great - I stayed standing most of the time and through the whole thing my knees felt absolutely 100% normal. I can't even tell you how much fun today was - not to mention, the weather was fantastic and the trails are in great shape (nice and tacky - not too much dust).

So quite possibly that wasn't on the list of things I'm supposed to be doing yet... (I didn't ask) ...but we stuck to trails I've ridden 100 times where I felt totally confident, and I never had to dab a foot to really test my knee out. Honestly my balance and everything feels better than it has in the past with all the work I've been doing so I don't think it was a big deal. [/end rationalization] ;)

Anyway.... can't wait to ski again... I can't even think about how great that will feel to be back on real skis.

[QUOTE=altagirl]Mr.AG and I went out to 5 mile pass today and rode dirt bikes. :D :D :D :D
QUOTE]

VERY COOL. :fmicon: :fmicon: :fmicon:

Did you make Mr AG kick start it for you? :wink:

[QUOTE=GT40]

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Originally Posted by altagirl

Mr.AG and I went out to 5 mile pass today and rode dirt bikes. :D :D :D :D
QUOTE]

VERY COOL. :fmicon: :fmicon: :fmicon:

Did you make Mr AG kick start it for you? :wink:

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Heh. I'm a cheater and have an e-start. ;) Gotta love the magic button.

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Originally Posted by altagirl

Anyway.... can't wait to ski again... I can't even think about how great that will feel to be back on real skis.

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So good to hear that you're just about back out there altagirl. Seems like only yesterday that we were just trying to get our knees to zero...well, uhh, maybe not :D Can't wait to hear your first day back on skis report!

Yup, love to hear it, AG. I started jogging today. Really getting there. Next year I'm going to ski a ton, and maybe even get to meet some maggots. Might try the xc thing myself this week. Thanks for the info/inspiration.

I went mountain biking both days this weekend. Nice change from the endless hours on the bike/elliptical at the gym. Saturday I just went out and basically rode a big sustained climb up a gravel road until I hit the mud - I checked out the singletrack I normally take down, but it's under snow. So today we (me and the dog) went out, did the same thing faster, and then went up and explored some of the Draper section of the shoreline trail - again, until we hit the mud. But it was fun riding some singletrack anyway.

Getting so close on the skiing...

I skied today!!!! :D :D :D

Just for the ski free after 3 on Sunnyside, but it was fun. Knee felt solid, but just... not normal, I guess. (I guess that's probably stating the obvious). And on top of that, for some reason I kept wanting to stare down at my feet. No idea what was going on there... I need some more time on skis to feel normal again, and I was REALLY taking it easy, but I had a great time!

Apologies for the lame-ass picture taken w/my cameraphone, but I was stoked to be skiing... sun was shining... moment needed to be captured. :D And then celebrated w/a beer at Goldminers. Yay!

http://www.tetongravity.com/usergall...day%20back.jpg

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Originally Posted by altagirl

I skied today!!!! :D :D :D

Just for the ski free after 3 on Sunnyside, but it was fun. Knee felt solid, but just... not normal, I guess. (I guess that's probably stating the obvious). And on top of that, for some reason I kept wanting to stare down at my feet. No idea what was going on there... I need some more time on skis to feel normal again, and I was REALLY taking it easy, but I had a great time!

Apologies for the lame-ass picture taken w/my cameraphone, but I was stoked to be skiing... sun was shining... moment needed to be captured. :D And then celebrated w/a beer at Goldminers. Yay!

http://www.tetongravity.com/usergall...day%20back.jpg

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YESSS!!!!!

Good job. It must feel strange being out for the first time after surgery and a long time off. Never thought of that. Hmmmmm...Take it slow and you'll be back in full swing in no time.

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Originally Posted by FollowMe

Good job. It must feel strange being out for the first time after surgery and a long time off. Never thought of that. Hmmmmm...Take it slow and you'll be back in full swing in no time.

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Yeah - it only takes a couple minutes to lose most of the "what in the hell am I doing" feeling, but considering the time I had to spend in front of a mirror relearning how to walk without a limp, you've gotta figure that's normal. It's like first day of the season x20. Plus the nerves of "gotta be careful..." But it was a blast anyway. :D

Congratulations C. That's great news.

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Originally Posted by altagirl

for some reason I kept wanting to stare down at my feet. No idea what was going on there...

http://www.tetongravity.com/usergall...day%20back.jpg

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It's because of the alograft. Maybe your donor was a tightrope walker :biggrin: Way to go, AG :yourock:

Nice. I am jealous even if its only Sunnyside.
I have been wondering if this will work in order to ski free before three - Wear a baseball cap, dress dorky (jeans or something) and make sure you are drinking a beer when you pass the lifty.


Now it just needs to snow again.

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Originally Posted by Snow Ranger

Nice. I am jealous even if its only Sunnyside.
I have been wondering if this will work in order to ski free before three - Wear a baseball cap, dress dorky (jeans or something) and make sure you are drinking a beer when you pass the lifty.


Now it just needs to snow again.

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Heh, might help. I must need to work on my Texan costume.

I went to the little table they have to get my free yellow ticket and the girl standing there looked me up and down, cleared her throat, and said "You KNOW this is only good for Sunnyside, don't you?"