All is not lost. Only MANNED space flight is affected. Plans to make Rosie O'Donnel a new moon are still in the works. Plus, AKPM still has a shot at first eunuch in space.
All is not lost. Only MANNED space flight is affected. Plans to make Rosie O'Donnel a new moon are still in the works. Plus, AKPM still has a shot at first eunuch in space.
I work in the aerospace industry and even I can't get worked up about this. Human space travel has become boring. Either fund something worthwhile or cut it all together.
How many shuttle rides you got under your belt? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by The AD
Flying and driving is boring too.
What's funny is you are the resident expert on climate, but you know what i said is true, which is why you are butt hurt and are now going to spend the next three pages trying to prove that it is in fact moi who is both unfunny and rectally pained. Dear brett, it's a game we can both play on auto pilot, but it's still just the special Olympics. You may be half black, but you are not Richard Prior or LeBron James.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blurred
anyway, LoneStar thinks I'm funny.
Wasn't that the point of Constellation? Earth. Moon. Mars.Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
Doing it right of course would be a little different: set up a mostly self sustaining Moon base which is both for mining and spaceship fuel/reaction mass production, use a nuclear powered mass driver to shoot fuel into orbit and mining goodies back to earth. PROFIT!
Build a nice nuclear powered rocket, go to Lunar orbit, pick up reaction mass, go visit some asteroids and Mars, actually search for (past) life with the (comparative) ease of a human astronaut. EXCITING!
Find a neat asteroid, nudge its orbit, put it in earth orbit, mine it while proving asteroid defense. PROFIT!
fkn spacenerds...Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
http://westsidewill.com/newblog/wp-c...x-682x1024.jpg
Good point, but I don't think funding a few dozen astronauts' joy rides should be the Feds' top priority right now!Quote:
Originally Posted by Blurred
Is that the best you got? WEAK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Cop
Guessing you're loving the attention you so desperately desire.
My treat.
Go ahead cool hand luke, tell us how you owned us all. sly dog.
Asteroids are filled to the balls with useful materials. Screw Mars, the asteroid belt is, as you said, where the profit is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
you republicans are really reaching...
Now you're CRYING about gov't funding (spending) being cut?!? Saying this is "yet another path to certain disaster" and other crap like this?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
This should be your wet dream, a chance for the "free market" to take up the slack of ineffective federal govt! Let the bidding wars begin! Richard Branson is your first ambassador to private space travel/exploration, now pony the fuck up big red wallets and get on board.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN CAMPAIGNING FOR! Wallow around in it and lets see some solutions.
The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest shall go to the stars.
Oh, now I remember where I stashed that warp drive I invented. Too bad we can't use it now :(Quote:
Nope... not if we get over the idea of using chemical rockets. Chemical rocket based exploration of the solar system is retarded.
dear jfrost, I am NOT a republican.
OK small minded one. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by nealric
I was referring to nuclear thermal rockets, something that was well within our technical capability 50 years ago, just not needed for the Earth orbit jaunts. We were developing them to go to Mars, but gave up due to the Green Peacers and because we had to spend money on Vietnam in stead of space. Newer tech could be used like the VSIMR Nuclear Electronic Rocket.
not a chance.....Quote:
Originally Posted by natty dread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
Freeman Dyson was a smart, eccentric dude but futurist generally tend to be full of shit the majority of the time.
BTW his sons' biadarka shop is just down the street. Sweet aluminum SOF sea kayaks.....true works of art.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2124/...c16e0eac96.jpg
How about cutting the space budget in half and focusing on unmanned projects.
Use the the other half on renewable energy development, thereby saving untold billions on the military defense of the multinational corporate resource rapists.
Then reinvest some of those savings back into manned space programs.
BTW manned flight is candy for the masses.
Yeah, I just ordered one of his iridium particulate nuclear detonation kayaks cause it was so much cheaper than a used shuttle.
This has jack to due with futurist bullshit. This is mostly extremely simple and viable older technology that we abandoned for political reasons. Here is nuclear thermal rocket we built in the 1960s. It already had a SI 3x that of a Saturn V and 2x of the Space Shuttle's main engines that wouldn't be developed for another 20 years:Quote:
Originally Posted by Purveyor of Slack
http://www.daviddarling.info/images/NERVA_engine.jpg
These are NOT complex designs. They are in fact far simpler than the nuclear propulsion systems we use on naval ships. It works like this (simplified):
Hot nuclear reactor -> run coolant through -> coolant gets really hot -> expand it through a nozzle -> THRUST!
More advanced NTRs would used liquid metal reactors. NERs are even nicer because they allow even more efficiency and can be made lighter and safer depending on the thruster design.
http://images.quickblogcast.com/6/1/...16/vasimr1.jpg
VASIMR rocket completing full power test
We currently have functioning ion engines and we have operated ion engined probes, but we lack a good power system. As I said, exploration outside of earth orbit without fission power is just retarded.
http://nmp.nasa.gov/ds1/img/borrelly_1.jpg
Image of Comet Borely taken by the ion engined Deep Space 1 probe in 2001
We were going to build a fission powered probe to send to Jupiter's moons, possibly dropping landers, but W's budget cuts killed it:
http://www.spacetoday.org/images/Sol...IMO500x303.jpg
Prometheus I - Fission Powered Ion Engined Probe - Artists Concept
Project Prometheus was defunded in 2005. It was supposed to restart NASA's fission propulsion division which was abandoned in 1973 after Nixon cut funding to the NERVA Mars program (NERVA was the NTR in the first picture of this post).
Pulling out feel good solutions without thinking about any details... 7 billion is not going to solve our energy problems if you want your green feel good shit. It would be a tiny start. We need to do two things to be energy independent (and carbon freeish): build gen IV nuclear plants and invest money in battery/fuel cell tech which are charged by the nuclear power. Period. End of story.Quote:
How about cutting the space budget in half and focusing on unmanned projects.
Use the the other half on renewable energy development, thereby saving untold billions on the military defense of the multinational corporate resource rapists.
Then reinvest some of those savings back into manned space programs.
And you don't have to neuter NASA to do it. Hell, investment in NASA got us leaps and bounds in battery technology to start with!
Negative. Read the thread.Quote:
BTW manned flight is candy for the masses.
there are other nucular spaceship designs that can be even stranger (exploding bombs and riding the blast wave is one of them). interesting overview here:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0385520697/thedailygrail"]Amazon.com: Physics of the Impossible: A Scientific Exploration into the World of Phasers, Force Fields, Teleportation, and Time Travel[/ame]
and a way more complete (in a "mad scientist" kind of way) is Tony Zuppero's "To Inhabit the Solar System". completely bonkers, but free for download:
http://www.neofuel.com/inhabit/inhabit.pdf
Yeah the reaction from the right seemed a little out of place. Can someone like Rubicon answer this?Quote:
Originally Posted by jfost
First half of my career was directly involved with designing satellite systems. Exciting work, but I moved to a career in energy because I believe it to be the biggest challenge facing mankind right now. But I still haven't cut my ties with aerospace since I enjoyed working with the best designers in the world.
I can truly understand both Summit and AD's point of view. Wish we weren't in this mess, but it seems like we have to address energy and US economy before we can move to our lunar launch pad. It will happen, probably about the time I am ready to pass on from this life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
I can see that, my rant was more aimed at REDSCARE apologists like xxx who jumped on this bandwagon because it was something else to "pin" on Obama. All of a sudden, space exploration became the talking point of "Democratic" failure. Anyway... I know a few NSF budgeteers who have long held beliefs that NASA was wasting money in space, but supported their earth-based pursuits. I guess that you really can't have one without the other, and the govt funding "carrot" is probably essential to the rapid pace of innovation that we have come to know.
I think that the "nuke" powered craft will be a tough sell in the wake of things like Challenger & Atlantis. The public won't want to have nuclear things exploding over their heads, whether or not the risk is actual.
I do hope we don't skewer the jobs of some of our brightest minds, it would be funny to see scientists immigrate to India or China - maybe it is already happening?!?
Dear PNWBrit and Natty Dread, this is a thread about SPACE EXPLORATION so, yes, there is going to be some small amounts of science and technology in it. Since you clearly can't or won't understand such concepts, feel free to get back to grabbing each other's chest hair while you 69 each other.
Yea... Project Orion was feasible... in the you could build a bridge from San Fransisco to Toyko type of way... you could do it but is it necessary? You only get so many bombs. It was more feasible launching it on the ground but how fucking insane is that? If you don't launch it on the ground, it means you have to use chemical rockets to get everything into orbit and that's some HEAVY shit. Plus, if nuclear reactors are a political problem, hundreds of fission bombs are DEFINITELY a problem. Nevertheless, testing was done for low ablative materials with some good progress before it was abandoned. Still... rather outlandish.Quote:
Originally Posted by f2f
NTR's made much more sense at the time (and still do). Launch a reactor into space, fuel it with reaction mass from the moon or a captured comet, fly around to wherever and refuel wherever you can find water. Plus, they are a lot simpler design.
NERs are reaction mass limited, but with SI of up to 30,000, you can carry a lot of effective fuel.
My POV aligns perfectly with Summit's on this issue. So, what exactly is the question?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip'nStick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicon
yeah, yeah, me too! I hate Obama too...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicon
http://ar15atlanta.com/pics/niger_please.jpg
I can't begin to fathom the difficulty all presidents face. When you go to cut programs...that program is the life of somebody..some group...someone whose life depends on it so to speak. It is impossible to make everyone happy.
serious lulz
17.2 billion, that NASA's budget for the whole fucking year. Does anyone in their right mind somehow think that 17.2 billion dollars is gonna make any fucking difference in the grand scheme of things. Fuck this year's deficit alone is 1.7 trillion, so explain to me how killing shit like NASA makes any real difference.
But hey lets do the easy thing like cut small programs that actually do shit rather than actually attempt to deal with the shit that actually causes 1.7 trillion dollar deficits. This isn't a republican/democrat issue its the 1,000,000th example of how American gov't totally fails on anything that isn't instant gratification.
As an aside did I miss the memo where we all decided that making loot was the singular and ultimate purpose of humanity ?
Dear Buzz Lightyear,Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xKBxQtoCAE...0/DSC_0520.JPG
Sorry.
Yours etc.
PNW.
Oooooooh! Natty dear did you hear what she said about us?Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
What a nasty bitch!
You know the real reason why Obama is shutting this down the manned program is because of the aliens. He is probably being controled by the alien overlords or even an alien walkin himself. Either way, if true, and we are surrounded by a much more advance alien species that is running the show, manned space travel might just be a mute point, and Obama know this. An advance alien species ability to travel interdensionally or through spacetime in ways we havent dreamed of yet, might just make our febil efforts in a manned program seem pointless.
My theory, Im pretty sure the aliens are pissed of since we shot that rocket into the moon in a feeble attempt to show them that we could fight back if necessary. What a stupid idea. I mean they must be so far up Obama's ass after that, they were probably annally probing him while they we were like "and you know what, no more trips to space, biatch".
Dont worry, the private market is the solution to all gov't.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleYellowFriend
'Quote:
Originally Posted by QuikR12
James Cameron?
Dont worry, the private market is the solution to all gov't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicon
i would think it's one item in a bunchQuote:
Originally Posted by ArmadaBC
smaller government, remember?
and i think it's the cuts before the taxes go up...
This article has more information on this topic.
NASA to get $6 billion for Commercial Space Flight
edit - note that this article is more like a blog post than an article....Quote:
NASA to Get $6 Billion for Commercial Space Flight
January 28, 2010 by Mark Whittington
Vague Answers on Exploration Fuels Concern
In response to stories that the Obama administration is planning to cancel the return to the Moon program, the White House arranged from a conference call with the Orlando Sentinel and Florida Today to clarify its plans for NASA.
The Constellation program to return astronauts to the Moon and destinations to Mars is still dead. In its place if a nearly $6 billion investment to create commercially run space craft to take astronauts to and from low-Earth orbit. In addition, a technology program will be initiated, some infrastructure improvements to the Kennedy Space Center will be funded, and the International Space Station will be extended to at least 2020. The average increase to the NASA budget will be $1.3 billion per year.
NASA officials were vaguer about reported plans for a heavy lift launch vehicle rumored to be in development to send astronauts beyond low-Earth orbit. According to the Orlando Sentinel, "However, none of the officials would say how much money or what plans existed for creating a NASA spaceship capable of launching humans beyond the space station. When asked, officials repeatedly dodged the question of what plans the administration had for a heavy-lift rocket."
The heavy lift launcher is described as a "Saturn V class vehicle." Administration and NASA officials did not elaborate about what that meant. The Saturn V was capable to launching 262,000 pounds of payload into low-Earth orbit. By contrast the planned Ares V, now slated for cancellation, would have launched 327,000 to 410,000 pounds into LEO.
Administration and NASA officials also refused to state how the new heavy lift launcher would fit into a new exploration program. Left unanswered were questions about when astronauts would voyage beyond low-Earth orbit and where they would go. Previous indications had suggested that under the Obama plan, America would bypass the Moon and Mars in favor of Earth approaching asteroids, the Moons of Mars, and points in empty space.
Administration officials claim that the new space program would create 1,700 jobs at the Kennedy Space Center and 5,000 jobs across the country. That would partly offset the anticipated loss of 7,000 jobs at KSC and many more across the country as a result of the end of the shuttle program.
While the Obama administration is confident that Congress and the public would view the space plan favorably once the details are revealed in the FY2011 budget request for NASA this Monday, some are already expressing skepticism. Florida Today quotes Florida Republican Bill Posey as saying, "My biggest fear is that this amounts to a slow death of our nation's human space flight program, a retreat from America's decades of leadership in space, ending the economic advantages that our space program has brought to the U.S., and ceding space to the Russians, Chinese and others. The president's U-turn on this issue is both bizarre and misguided."
The vague answers that the Obama administration is giving about any exploration program that might replace the one being canceled are bound to fuel those concerns. The abandonment of the Moon is seen by many as short sighted and driven more by a desire to save money than to conduct a serious exploration program. While voyages to asteroids and other places in deep space have some merit, the Moon is the closest place to Earth where humans can live long term. The Moon represents a venue filled with both scientific and commercial opportunities. Other destinations could only be visited briefly and have relatively limited value.
It is possible that the administration will have more detailed answers in the following week as the budget request is presented. In any event, the proposal is going to be chewed over and debated in Congress in the months to come.
Correction, YOU don't give a fuck. I know a lot of us that like having her around. You on the other hand...we've wanted you gone for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
KQ: beloved, long time member who's brought more good will to this community than any of your rambling overly aggressive diatribes filled with personal attacks (ie. this thread); look no further than her excellent culinary threads.
Summit: retard from CO; see comment above about rampant douchbaggery.
Now back to your regularly schedule discussion about manned space exploration.
I think David Cross put it best, "Yay! We're sending a man to the moon! Fuck yeah! Wait, didn't we do that already? Oh well, who cares. We're going to the moon! Hey, I have an idea. How about we put a man in an apartment."
As for mining the moon (much less other planets) and bringing the materials back. Do you have any idea how much that will cost? Paying for material extraction on this planet is costly enough. What are we going to run out of here that we'll have to get from there? Many building materials can be reused, recycled, or regenerated. And science/society has proven especially adept at finding new sources of materials that are more efficient and/or plentiful than their predecessors.
I am totally going to get my MS and PHD in MOON MINING ENGINEERING! Booyah
we can presume you'll be matriculating at Booyah U?
I had no idea gay guys twirled each others chest hair while 69'ing until summit clued us in on that shit.
Somethings are better left unsaid.
Forget sniveling about this shit.
Just go park your ass on the boundary of area 51 and you'll find our capabilities far exceed this simplistic going to the moon crap.
How about controlling population? Now there's a fukking challenge that doesn't require leaving the stratosphere.
I'll sell you one for $100.Quote:
Originally Posted by P_McPoser
how'd you like to be black and have to say, "Yes NASA", "No NASA" all the fkn time?
How dare you mention this! This topic is VERBOTEN! Do you understand? Do not speak of this ever again!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by splat