186 Rocker Review Thread

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breakable crusts?

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ha! nope, just pure, face-deep blower ;) maybe next time...

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mounting point?

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these are the Brown topsheet Soli demos from Dibbs, so he would probably know.

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flex?

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wow i feel useless. I don't know. I actually never picked them up and flexed them. Chairs were spinning, snow was falling, i just had to get out there. They weren't stiff, maybe a 5 or so? Just from skiing them, I'd say similar to the Ninthward THA, maybe a bit stiffer underfoot and a bit softer in the tip.

Given the conditions, I didn't want them stiffer. The float was just perfect. In more variable snow, I bet I would want them a bit stiffer. However, If they were gonna be stiffer, I'd probably also want them 5cm longer (not 10cm).

EDIT: just saw in another thread, skifishbum referred to this pair as "stiff highly-rockered protos," so they could certainly be stiffer than I indicated above.

Squirrelmurphy - Stoked you got on them! Sweet fukkers is right, especially for blower that's deep. We will make the final flex a bit stiffer (don't worry, even the I beam version floats beautifully) with a 3-5 mm positive camber and a slightly stiffer tail for landing hucks. The tip will be a bit stiffer with a little less rocker (doesn't need it to float, just to better engage effective edge).

Glad you made it, dood!
The noodles.....I thought about how we had to leave for Vegas and how much I wanted to get those out in the deep-ass blower that was falling as we were leaving. :cussing:
FYI - I'm 210 lbs. and 6-1 and those noodles were schweeeet.
pechelman - I skied the noodle version in a breakable crust and they did exceptionally well.

Overall, we will change skiing with this ski. The S7 will charge nowhere near as hard as the 186 Bro.

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Originally Posted by squirrelmurphy

EDIT: just saw in another thread, skifishbum referred to this pair as "stiff highly-rockered protos," so they could certainly be stiffer than I indicated above.

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We had a potpourri of flexes we made to test, sm. Dibs prolly was referring to one of the other pair we had. He didn't really like the noodles.

In Honeycomb, I thought they just fukkin rooooled.

Pat, just my thought, but I would recommend against reducing the tip rocker. I don't think it's detrimental in harder-snow performance, and its benefits in soft snow are what put this ski ahead of anything i've ever skied in pow. I know you want to make it a useable everyday ski, but I think reducing tip rocker would unnecessarily compromise soft-snow performance, which I personally think you absolutely should not do with this ski. More than any other BRO to date, this ski has the potential to be perfect in soft snow.

Keep the rocker, stiffen the tip. The tail is probably fine either way as long as it stays nice and tapered

The reason it has to be reduced is the rocker was over-extended back behind the widest part of the base, thus reducing that front of the effective edge's contact to the snow by a cm or two. In order for the edge to operate as designed, the widest point of the base in the tip must be engaged on the snow for optimal performance on ice as well as soft snow. The reduction will be very minor, as the low profile tips on the blue pair of rockers Dibs likes so much float just fine - and they are very low in comparison to the brown tops. This is just a fine-tuning, nothin more, that will result in a tip height loss of only a few mm's. But the overall performance enhancement will be exceptional. We can't do this any other way without changing the entire design and milling new molds, which isn't necessary to perfect the ski.

OK, thats a good explanation. I understand where you're coming from.

My consumer's point of view: Just make sure you don't get caught up with the hard-snow performance. ANY loss in float I think would be significant for this ski. Going from the BROcker to the Praxis, I wonder if having the fattest part of the ski rockered off the snow is what gave these so much more float. As a BROsumer, it's FKNA awesome that these ski pow like anything but also get you safely and comfortably back to the lift, but I buy this ski for the first part, not the second. I see the 186 as the first model with the chance to shine in pow and rip everywhere else, as opposed to the 188s and 192s which shine in denser pow, chopped pow, crud, and everything under the sun except bottomless pow.

just my $.02. or is that $.05?

relpy to all: from a skifishbum slave: skied em this am in BCC, imho...this is a Leap in engineering of POW skis; (pat thinks rossi might have their version out next year???((as of last week)) as i made a full force initation of a turn, in (1.5'-3' of 5% UT GOODS) the tips drive up to heaven, begging for another weighted (237lb) driving turn. what a blessing, in the deep stuff. groomers = no fun, pow pigs. thanks pat and dibs. Beautiful thinking R U L E S!!!! FKNA is for so real...........

me: 5'10, 170lbs. i'd like to think of myself as a good skier
thanks to the skifishbum bro demo program skied the noodle soft rockers saturday cat skiing ,so all fresh all the time. great ski for fresh .point em and go. these skis like 3 turns per 300 feet of vert. only drawback was loss of power on big slut turns. nothing major but noticable.
skied the less rockered stiff version on sunday @ solitude. lot more stable on the crud and didn't loose much power on the big turns. wish i got to take out the really rockered stiffs out and try them out to see the difference between the soft version.

all in all a great ski for those who want to rip deep powder really fast.

excellent job Pat

Schweet, dudes. Thanks for taking them out for a spin.
Next batch will likely be similar flex to the blues but with the higher tips of the browns.
Looks like a glass/carbon layup will bring it in light enough for good skinning, too.
I have a few other skis to press first that people have been waiting for but, honestly, all I want to press is 186s and then go ski the shit out of them.
Did you guys get in the trees on them? I love the way they just swim through trees.

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Originally Posted by splat

Did you guys get in the trees on them? I love the way they just swim through trees.

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oh i tried em just a little bit in the trees :rolleyes:

I guess I can safely assume you know what I mean...........:D

Just like a dream, effortless floating through the trees in Honeycomb with a face full of snow, taking the whole slope in 5 turns.

Pat - Could you post approximate weights for both all glass and carbon/glass layups?

5 lbs, 4 oz per ski in all glass.
4 lbs, 12 oz in carbon/glass


Over the summer, we're going to work with hybrid carbon/glass cloth and different core thicknesses on many of our layups in an effort to lower weights.

Nice, thanks for the info.

I'm thinking the carbon Rocker with dynafits would be the perfect addition to my touring quiv.

Bump back up for Brocker history.

how long til a rev/rev PM gear ski? or a PM gear jibberific ski? i understand you guys are perfectionists, but why don't you guys have a ton of rockered skis? are you not fully sold on rockered skis, or does it just not fit the PM gear demographic?

186 Bro-ckers


full specs, when can i buy, these are so dope. end of transmission.

140-112-122

Anyone can buy now, but we don't start pressing until August, shipping Sept/Oct.
The all glass is $789, plus $30 shipping.
Glass/carbon is $889, plus $30 shipping.

You can get a place in line by sending via PayPal to:

sales@pmgearusa.com

The Lhasa Pows ski great fully rockered. We did every imaginable camber, rocker, layup and flex last season and they all skied great. We simply settled in on the one that performed best in EVERY condition and still kills pow insanely We'll prolly do a more rockered version called the Lhasa Pure Pow.

A lot of time and effort went into these skis. We weren't just designing and crankin out skis, hoping people liked them. They are maggot tested through and through, over and over. 35 pair of prototypes. We perfected them and know every nuance of every possible layup.

Isn't that what maggots expect? We're the all-maggot ski company.

cdlv - Thanks, I hadn't seen that clip for a while. Great tune!

hot damn! i need to get some more cash flow.

Just saw the tops. FKNA!

That is one sexy topsheet,nice work Pat and kudos to whoever did the artwork:yourock:

Hey! nice avatar, vanisle.

Could probly squeeze a pair of Lhasa Pows in there too eh!!

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Originally Posted by vanisle

Could probly squeeze a pair of Lhasa Pows in there too eh!!

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Spotted that on the topsheets too.. any significance? I don't get it, or how to pronounce it :confused:

Lhasa = place of the Gods in Tibet

Lahsa pow sound like lotsa pow

not bad

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

Lhasa = place of the Gods in Tibet

Lahsa pow sound like lotsa pow

not bad

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You are a google master;)

It is also a dog kinda like a shitzu according to intraweb encyclopedia.

Just a simple question.

How do the 186 measure against the 190 Katana? Does anybody have a photo comparing these two skis length wise?

If you stand a 186 Lhasa up straight, it will measure 184.5 cm from the floor to the tip.
I guess you could call a shop and have them do the same measurement on a 190 Katana....

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Originally Posted by splat

Asymmetrical sidecuts occur because of the cooling/curing process involved with sintered uhmw pe plastic. It shouldn't happen, but the material develops a tension in it. When cut, this tension releases. In bases, it usually seems to want to release sideways, thus creating asym bases.

The reason those bases were asym is because the skis were protos and we hadn't made a mold yet. After cutting, they tweaked and created a larger radius on one side than the other. Typically, we wrestle asym bases into a mold and they come out to spec, having been properly realigned. For protos, we just press between a couple sheets of metal with no borders to hold the base to shape and the asymmetry of the base manifests in the skis. Once we feel like we have a viable design, we make a mold to ensure the skis have a symmetrical sidecut.

I have cussed and insulted the base manufacturers for this and even gotten refunds out of them for shipping us shitty material. Lately, in order to further minimize that tweaking when cutting, we have been putting the material through a heat up/cool down process. This has been very successful , as evidenced when the bases fall right into the mold like they're supposed to.

I have wrestled some ugly bases into molds and gotten perfect skis, but it's time consuming and frustrating. Some of the guys we had pressing last year were cheating when my back was turned and pressing the crooked bases between two sheets of metal and we shipped some asym skis. They got fired for that. If a company does not use molds for their skis, there's a good chance that either 1) their skis are asym or 2) they are getting some damn sweet base material that isn't twaeking and they aren't making asym skis. However, most people in the US are getting their bases from Crown Plastics, where we get ours.

To check for asym, all you have to do is hold your skis together so the edges are flush tip and tail, then squeeze and see if the edges match up in the center.

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And what's if you cut the bases just some centimeters oversized, and once it gets deformed, you cut it again with the fitted shape? should it work, right?... I'm making my first press right now, and will obviously have to deal with it in some weeks.

Thanks, splat!

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Originally Posted by Bati

And what's if you cut the bases just some centimeters oversized, and once it gets deformed, you cut it again with the fitted shape? should it work, right?... I'm making my first press right now, and will obviously have to deal with it in some weeks.

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Slicing it into big rectangles a bit bigger than your base cuts so the tension in the plastic settles out will make you individual cuts better, but having some pegs or blocks on your aluminum to hold the shape, essentially making a mold, is the best way to ensure your bases hold their shape, other than edging them on a template cut in your base shape, Bati.

Bati,

Obviously Splats advice is the right way to go, but if you are doing a home build and can't get a proper mould then I found that there was a big improvement if you cut your bases using a router rather than cutting them out with a blade.

I have done a couple of home builds and after creating a few banana bases with a knife I tried a router (on the same batch of base material) and got no warping at all.

Credit where it's due - this tip came to me from skibuilders.com

I can't offer any explanation as to why this might be, but it worked for me.

Gr.

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Originally Posted by gritter

Bati,

Obviously Splats advice is the right way to go, but if you are doing a home build and can't get a proper mould then I found that there was a big improvement if you cut your bases using a router rather than cutting them out with a blade.

I have done a couple of home builds and after creating a few banana bases with a knife I tried a router (on the same batch of base material) and got no warping at all.

Credit where it's due - this tip came to me from skibuilders.com

I can't offer any explanation as to why this might be, but it worked for me.

Gr.

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Thanks Gritter, i just got the router :wink: