The heatstack (or whatever it's called) heating method, where the liner is heated in the boot, sounds like the way to go for your situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottime
Printable View
The heatstack (or whatever it's called) heating method, where the liner is heated in the boot, sounds like the way to go for your situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottime
Mrs. Doremite will be subjected shortly. Will report back if anything to add. Thanks to all here for the advice. Yooper's effort standing the test of time and trial.
Discovered yesterday that spraying the inside of the shell with some Pam non-stick spray, in particular the back off the cuff, really helps the liner slide in. This of course assumes you are doing the foot in liner and then into the shell method.
Extra points for butter flavored spray.
Great work guys! The make shift boot spreaders are awesome!
I remember the old thermal Flex liners 15 years ago? Hahaha in New Zealand we started using Panty Hose in the process. Really, We would heat the liners, Put the bed in the liner, Toe cap it, Hold the liner wrap while we would stretch panty hose over the entire thing to insure even pressure before we inserted the assembly in the boot!
That particular problem, no, but I have used the heat gun and stretching on tight spots.Quote:
Originally Posted by changodeoro
Another thought for thermal Liners that have cushioning below the foot. The soft foam can greatly hinder custom footbed function. Just a few MM of soft foam underlying the footbed can force compression set that dismantles alignment in the boot during molding process. Also underlying foam will introduce excessive ankle rotation during skiing and especially Tele & snowboarding.
Within just a few days of skiing, Excessive ankle rotation most often leads to performance loss due to rapid pack out of your foam liners.
Last, Many shops have tried to combat alignment issues with these liners.
The most interesting one I have seen was to pull out the liner and put the custom footbed directly on the boot board. Heat the liner and mold it ON TOP of the custom footbed.
Essentially the Liner becomes a TOP SHEET to the footbed. This solves the footbed offset issue, But there is still excessive foam interfacing the foot itself. People dont realize, But just a few mm of foot distortion amplifies ankle rotation, HELLO LINER PACK OUT! The footbed under the liner is favored by many snowboarders and Telemark skiers. If you try this, Be certain to anchor the heel of the insole with a loop of duct tape, this will insure the insole remains in place when you insert the heated liner into the shell. STill not Ideal, But definatly keeps the insole function stable.
How would you anchor the footbed in place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Hay
The boot shell floor is substantially larger than your footbed.
You'd probably have 1/4"-1/2" of clearance on all sides for it to slide around to.
A strip of duct tape isn't going to do much to keep it in place, especially as you work your liner in.
You are right,
The void is much greater than the bed.
But once the liner takes the footbed contour, The Molded Liner holds it perfectly in place, I have never seen one shift.
For several years We had Xgame & Olympic snowboarders ride boots fitted with the insole Under the liner. Not Ideal, But it delivered decent performance results.
Now we engineered the insole with a grid that eliminates most of the excessive cushioning issues within these types of liners. The performance results exceeded all our expectations. Some people still like to ride with the insole under the liner, But the best power transfer comes from having the new grid lock insole inside the liner.
Thanks for the tutorial - I've now used it for two pairs of liners with great success.
I upgraded my Titans last night with intuitions, and I decided to try footbeds inside the liners, since the titan footbed is deeply grooved and looked like it would be very likely to cause the liners to pack out over time.
I bought Sole thermo-formable footbeds, and cooked them at the same time as the liners. I took them out a minute early and prepped my foot with a toecap, the footbeds, and a nylon stocking. It worked great, and now I have liners and footbeds formed to my foot.
Only time will tell if this will be successful strategy or not, but my foot feels really locked in and comfortable at the same time.
2XQuote:
Originally Posted by jondrums
I just did a recook on a pair of PW I bought used.
Copied your spreader:
Attachment 70965
Attachment 70966
Worked perfect. Used a little silicone spray and slid right in.
I picked up a couple Intuition toe box spacers.
Was worried cause it felt like my toes were curled up throughout the whole process.
When done the fit was perfect.
Added 2 more hooks on your speader.Thanks again for starting this post.
Beers for you if we cross paths Yooper.
Went ghetto with the bailing wire.
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...0clamp/003.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...0clamp/004.jpg
If a crease is not too bad, you can try to work it out with spot heating. Similarly, you can work on problem fit areas by spot heating if the rest of the fit is good.
Another suggestion is to place your footbed underneath the liner, rather than mold it inside. This ensures that the footbed is stable in the boot, not getting molded off-axis or sitting on foam that can move. Added bonus is a warmer feel, since the foam is in contact with your whole foot.
Generally, a great post. Essentially the same way we molded them in our shop. I have used both plastic bags and silicone spray to eliminate creasing, but it is just as important to be careful as you move your foot into the shell. Having a helper is a really good idea for this part.
Lastly, be sure not to pull up too hard on the top of the liner when sliding into the shell, you can end up with really tall liners....
Happy cooking!
Damn, that's an expensive boot spreader :biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by TWINS
AND it's backcountry approved :fmicon:
Thanks for the great tutorial! I followed the instructions and got an almost perfect fit. But I don't think I used enough toe cap because my toes are crunched. The shell fit is tight, but with my previous liners (professionally molded) I had enough toe room so I know that better results are possible. The otherwise good fit and lack of wrinkles was probably more luck than skill and I don't want to tempt fate by re-cooking the whole liner. So here's what I'm thinking,
- cover the liners with a couple layers of tinfoil leaving the toes exposed
- put em in to the convection oven for 5 min, at the same time heating up a beanbag full of [ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170547"]rice[/ame] in the microwave
- remove tinfoil, put liners into shells, stuff rice beanbag into toe, stuff newspaper behind beanbag, let it sit with the toes pointing down for 5 min.
- take all that crap out and put my heavily toe-capped foot in
- stand with a 2x4 under the heel to push my toes forward
- beer
How's that sound? Suggestions? Thanks!
Maybe try a heat gun on the toe area of the liner only.Then remold with more volume in your toe area.
I used some weatherstripping to get volume with my mold.Worked great.Don`t worry about the feeling of tightness.Mine felt tight as hell while molding but now I can wiggle them with a normal weight ski sock.
The complete setup consisting of 3 athletic sock toe caps/orthotic/2 ultrathin ski socks and padding on a pressure point on my foot.
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...onrd/001-3.jpg
Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, while I have a microwave, convection oven, and rice, I don't have a heat gun.
One thing I'd strongly suggest is to call Intuition and order their fit kit.
It can't be that much $.
Their toe cap works so much better than extra cut off socks because it won't compress during the molding process.
Any thoughts on use of a convection oven...set oven to 220 instead of 240, etc. I think I read this somewhere else I the thread.
Convection is the type of oven the dealers originally used (and many still do) before jumping on the use of heat stacks. Supposedly convection works better than a standard oven since the heat distribution is more uniform. I've never had any problems though using a standard oven that's pre-heated very well and 3 layers of foil on the rack.
I have baked both ways at the same temp/240*.The convection cook seemed to be cooler to the touch.Both ways worked great with good prep work.
That's what I used.Quote:
Originally Posted by ecas559
Worked perfectly.
I used this method last night. I used the rubber toecap provided by intuition, which seems to not have been enough. I have a fairly snug shell fit, and my toes are cramped, even leaning forward fairly far into the boot. The fit otherwise seems to be pretty good.
The solution I am considering is to create a larger toecap with an old sock or something, heat the toe of the boot with a hair dryer and try to press it out a little more.
Any better ideas?
I had the same problem after molding, toe box too snug. I put foam between toes to spread them wider and used the rubber toe cap again. There was enough room with after molding toe area again.
The previous two posts reminded me that I've modified the fitting process to help resolve the toe box size problem.
I went down a shell size this season so my shell fit is now down to 5mm. I need to get every last drop of toe wiggle room that I can. So what I've done for my last two liner fittings is after the first 10 minutes of driving my heel down and back to create a solid heel pocket I spend the last 5 minutes driving my toes forward as much as I can stand. Note that I use toe caps made from scuba booties and foam between my toes.
I'm also using the Power Wrap Plug liner so that gives me a little extra toe room due to the reduced thickness of the liner.
j/c that foam between the toes thing. Is what you are using those things that chicks use between their toes when they get pedicures, or just pieces of foam you cut from something? I've not tried this yet but I'm wondering if individual pieces could get moved around too much.
^^^The foam I use has sticky on one side, fold it in half and sticks to both toes. Can add more layers to outside toes.
Yep - you got it. Pedicure foam. After I'm done with the liner fitting I usually go for a nice shade of purple for my nails.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim Jong-un
Resurrection of this Thread... Quick question.
This is my 3rd season on my full tilts. My liners have never been baked. They have packed out to the point where I need to use thick socks to get the snug fit I like. Can I bake these liners? There are some small abrasions in liner from use.... Do I need to buy new liners?
And any suggestions on making my own toe box?
Baking the liners generally will not increase their volume. Although initially the foam does expand a bit more upon heating, baking makes the foam more dense once they're cooled. However, I'm not quite sure what will happen with a liner that's never been baked, but only skied to pack it out. The fact that you were able to ski an unbaked Full Tilt liner pretty much tells me that your shell size is way too big. I can't even get my foot into my shell with an unbaked liner.
hmm that is interesting... I always thought it was the opposite. I was fitted to the boots and have a standard pencil sized gap behind the heel with the toes touching, a good fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild4umlauts
Did you mean DECREASE their volume making for a tighter fit? Putting an old, flat sneaker foot bed or two under your own foot bed might help. Called a midsole on cobbler speak. But I'm cheap and WTF do I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild4umlauts
The first thing I tried was a foot bed. My foot is skinny but really tall. Footbeds cause the top of my foot to press against the top of the boot and it hurts.....Quote:
Originally Posted by wooley12
Hey yooper, what would I use as a boot strecher / how would I get my liners in if I have Dalbello boots? It has a 3 peice design and doesn't open up like a regular salmon boot per say. They open out the front instead of curling around...
Thanks, Austin.
If you think about it logically you'll realize why that can't possibly be the case. There are only so many bakes in an Intuition liner. Why? Because the foam gets more and more dense with each succeeding bake. As the foam gets more dense it LOSES volume. Everyone thinks they're going to be getting a "refreshed" fit because initially the foam does expand a bit upon re-heating. Unfortunately it doesn't stay that way when it's fully cooled.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
I have heated liners up to 6 times and I've never seen it happen any other way.
And if you truly have a "pencil" fit then you're a better man than I being able to ski an unbaked liner until it packed out.
Straight on. I've used the rebake method to get more room in a set of Med volume liners because I also have a pencil fit (Ticonderoga No. 2 unsharpened) in a 98mm shell. The plug liner which is thinner, mold up just right the first time for me, but I had to bake the Med volume liners 2X. NO WAY could I ski an unbaked liner in my boots either. What's the point of buying Intuitions if you don't bake them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild4umlauts
Ignorance. I bought the boots in the early days of Full Tilt, I was unaware that the liners were intuitions, and I am surprised the boot fitter did not mention it or mold them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim Jong-un
I checked my boots last night... The fit is a two pencil fit, rather than one. This is upsetting. My foot fit great for the first 100 days in the boot, but as the liner heats with use, I guess it forms as it normally would, by becoming denser, and my boot has lost the perfect fit. I can still ski them fine, I just wear thicker hiking socks..........
But :cussing: boot fitters are supposed to know what they are doing........ I guess I will need to start saving for new boots.
Two pencils is about a 15mm shell fit. That is not bad. If you went down a size it would be a 5mm shell fit. Now some people may well ski that and be happy, but I would stress that a 5mm shell fit, even a 7.5mm (one pencil) is pretty damn tight.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
The length is only one indicator of the fit, if the heel, ankle, and forefoot is held tightly, a little room in the toe really makes no difference.
So I just got some konflicts on Christmas and had them molded that day. I've had two days on them so far and i love them. But my big toe on my right foot feels like it's getting bruised, but it's not bruised. Should I punch the boot or should I shave off a piece of the liner? Any other recommendations would be appreciated! Thanks
I wouldn't recommend ever "shaving" Intuition liners. There are some good posts here about spot molding trouble areas of Intuitions (I like the hot water idea best). Check those out.
However, with only 2 days on the boots I would be reluctant to recommend any changes yet. Ski them a bit more and let things settle in. If you're really hurting then at 5 days consider doing something. If you're not dying then I would wait until I had 10 days on the boots.