killer. right where i need to be then.Quote:
Originally Posted by dp
dp - give me a call sometime, man. i'd love to swing through and BS when you get some freetime.
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killer. right where i need to be then.Quote:
Originally Posted by dp
dp - give me a call sometime, man. i'd love to swing through and BS when you get some freetime.
Good to hear. Got mine mounted at -2.5, and that can't be all wrong. Will test them in E-berg in a weeks time:)Quote:
Originally Posted by dp
you're losing it man ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Telepath
shameless bump
-3cm = $$$
wouldn't go any further back. :stoked:
So, I finally got my first day in on the Lotus 120, flex 2. Engelberg. Mounted with solly 920's.
Skis Im familiar with; Volkl G4 188, Rossi XXX 185, K2 launchers 188, Legend Pros 186.
Me: 5.11, 175 lbs, pretty aggressive for being such an old fart;)
Conditions: Lots of semi-tracked medium and heavy powder, some untracked, turning wetter later in the day. Some on soft groomers. Some on softish avy-debris.
I am impressed. That pretty much sums it up. Generally I was able to ski faster and more aggressively than before in conditions that normally would make me a bit cautious.
The first couple of runs was in very good conditions. I realized that I could just let these go straight until they reached decent speed. Then put in a turn. And turning they did, very willingly :). I felt that I was in full control. I really felt I could carve the powder. When the powder became more chopped up, I just kept doing the same thing. The tracks didn't affect my riding at all. And I know it would have before. Also the skis are not difficult or hard to ride at all. They are imo very managable. (Note: I got the flex 2 which should be similar to an explosive, but they actually came out about 10-15% softer (according to stephan) in this first batch. This might make them more managable than normal versions). At one point I skied with very good speed over a roller, and all of a sudden I wasn't sure if the roller would turn in to a drop. Very quickly I was able to turn the skis around and go almost perpendicular to my original direction. No problem. This would for sure be a problem with a lot of heavier skis, for me at least. I wouldn't have a problem recommending them to intermediate skiers. They really are quite easy to ski.
I never really tested the top speed on these, but they didn't wobble in any of the speeds I put them in, which was at least decent fast.
The most difficult skiing conditions was when we were skiing through soft avy debris. A lot of big lumps were lying around. But they were relatively soft. I skied as normal, big carving turns in powder. When hitting the lumps, well, I didn't make much notice of it. The best comparison was with the guys I was skiing with (Hemas, Wildstyle and my buddy Richard). They needed to take those lumps into consideration in a completely different way. And I know the ski and not the skier must take the credit for a lot of that.
Groomers; well, they arent made for that are they:p . And they don't rule on the groomers. When I put em on an edge and turned the power on, well nothing really happened. Forget super G, this is like super super super G or something like that. But I could easily transport myself on the groomers with turns, no problem.
Some negatives; the topsheet wasn't glued too well on on the entire ski. Also, after one day of skiing, there are two cuts in the topsheet almost as if cut by a knife. So I suspect the finnishing will not be too durable.
All and all I felt that I could ski a lot more confidently and much more aggressively than before, with higher speed. It makes a big big difference from the traditional 90-100 mm width ski I've been on before. The bigger platform makes a big difference in how hard I can charge, with control. And most importantly; they make skiing more fun in a wider range of conditions:) I know I am going to recommend these skis to a lot of friends who wonder if this could be something for them.
So to you guys at dp: I think you've got a winner!!!:biggrin: :biggrin:
Sounds awesome. I wish Stephan could have filled my order out of this softer batch, but I guess letting him work out the topsheet issues is a good thing.
Any comments on how the twin and huge shovel effect the peceived length of the ski. Does it ski a bit shorter than 190? I'm kind of in between lengths on the Lotus and still not sure which way I should go.
Has been asked before but not yet answered, at least i couldnt find anything, whats the exact weight? been reading stuff like "lighter than sanouks" but i'd appreciate some numbers.
general thoughts about putting an AT binding on these? :p
kanutten, stoked that you are having fun on them...
I am working right now on a general email w/photos on how to tune up the topsheets so they don't chip.
It's a twofold issue in this first run: the ink on the silkscreen is not working correctly and needs to be addressed, but most importantly the finish on the topedge needs to be beveled. Here's the quick description so you can get them fixed up before skiing more on them again...We have done this with really good results, and it shouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes (minus any epoxy work). If you are still in E-berg, check in with Danny at Okay, he's the mang...
1. check carefully around the whole perimeter of the topedge for any isolated topsheet delam. epoxy those sections and clamp them down.
2. take a bastard file, the same you would use for sharpening an edge, and file away the perimeter of the topsheet at a 45 degree angle. the angle between the topsheet and sidewall is currently very square. file until the square edge of the topsheet shifts to round and smooth. You want the topedge and topsheet as round as possible, so don't be afraid with the file.
3. You can finish your work with a fine steel wool, scotch brite, or fine grit sandpaper to make them look factory sexy again.
They will no longer chip as your other ski's edge won't be able to get under the topsheet. get it done before you ski much more to avoid the chipping.
apologies. the pitfalls of the rushed development process, and scrambling to get skis out this season. will follow up with an email w/photos.
kannutten - same deal... after doing dp's fix, the problem is solved. the topsheet just hangs onto the sidewall a shade to far and makes it easy to chip. a little epoxy and yer all set.
dp - sorry i had to skip off, but i have some boots for you to play with, and have some more bs to toss at you... so lemme know when you are around again.
Stephan - we would have the same problems on Bros if we didn't bevel as you described. What we do - shave all the way around to 45 degrees with a razor knife. I noticed your topsheet was different than our PBT, but that might work on yours as well.
I think it skis shorter than the 190. They are very managable anyway. Very easy to make them change direction quickly. Actually, if I were to choose another length, I would have wanted them longer. And I have never skied on skis longer than 190 (oh - I forgot my 208 giant slalom skis from back in the day;) ). I am 5.11 and 170 lbs with a decent punch in my legs but by no means athlete style punch. Hard to advice on a right length for another person I've never seen ski, but if you are in between I'm quite sure the 190 would be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
In other words; 178 is a girly ski for christ sake:biggrin: :biggrin:
I'm actually in danny's shop right now writing this post!Quote:
Originally Posted by dp
I will have him sort this out, great to have that fix.
Marshalolson, can you possibly take some pics of the whole skis? I want to get a better idea of the rocker of the tips and tails.
well, i don't have a digicam, but if you look top on, where the shovel starts tapering is where the rocker starts. the tail is a normal twin/kick.Quote:
Originally Posted by iskipowder21
flat/no camber under foot between the shovel and tail
Having skied 3 more days on them now, in very mixed conditions. All and all I just have to say I am very happy.
I think what people need to know is this; The wood and carboncore combination makes for superpowerful skis, torsionally stiff, yet light and very manouverable. That is the building bench of the dp quiver, from which the individual ski models are made. I'll sum it up like this; I think this is the way to go, especially for bigger skis. Amazing combo of power, low weight and maneouverability.
I think dp also have it almost dialed when it comes to the quiver as such. They have a lot of very nice shapes. I am sure it is gonna be an evolution here going forward (or are we in the middle of a big ski revolution maybe). So things will change. But to me it seems as if dp is on the forefront here.
The next you need to decide on is what shapes you want in your quiver. A wailer (95 or 105) type standard ski is maybe the way to go for an allround off-piste ski, with traditional sidecut it makes it work well also in hard surface conditions. These would be particularly good choices also for a touring set-up.
If you want a two quiver combo, then maybe a wailer 95 + a lotus 120 or 138. The lotus skis do lack a bit in terms of versatility, but they do take it back in terms of soft snow performance. They are better in soft conditions than traditional fat skis (well at least the 120 which is the only one I've skied). I think the carbon/woodcore gives the highest advantage on the bigger skis, so a two quiver combo of say a legend pro + lotus 120 also has a lot going for it.
However good the skis are, it is still the skier on top of em that matters the most. I am quite sure that Seth Morrison would outski me on a pair of 1985 downhill skis in almost any conditions:) :) - actually no; I don't think he would do it in soft and deep conditions - HURRAY!!!!!!
I think it will be very interesting to see where the bigmountain ski market is developing in the years to come, and where dps is staying with it. Right now, I would say that dps is leading the pack.
I am hearing rumours of a swiss sleeping monster sllowly waking up though. It will be interesting to see indeed. And the skiers are the ones who will benefit the most from this whole thing. Yay!!
Played with the Lotus 120 and the Wailer 105 the last few days. The new construction looks really really good to me. I'm thinking the Lotus 138 and Wailer 105 would maybe be the best 2 ski quiver currently around.
A few more thoughts, as I'm not able to do anything meaningful here at work anyway:rolleyes:
Versatility:
One needs to know that the Lotus 120 does have limited versatility. A legend pro or the like I would be able to ski well in almost every conditions; Groomers, steep hard couloirs, powder, chopped powder etc. I'd still say that the lotus 120 will perform better than the legend pros of this world in: Powder, chopped powder, breakable windaffected, breakable crust. Just about anything as long as you can get 5 cm of the skies into the snow. Possibly the legend pros of this world can outgun the lotus 120 in very chopped windaffected powder with loads of stuff lying around, but that might be due to the extra soft construction on the first batch of flex 2 lotus 120's.
The legend pros of this world (it should be a generic word for these kinds of skis) on the other hand performs better on groomers, crusty conditions, icy couloirs, anything where you need the ski to connect to the snow on the edge and not on the area under the ski as such. However, when you do need to use the edge of this wide ski, I doubt that any other ski of similar width can do it as good. You can really feel that these skis are very torsionally stiff!
Some subjective thoughts. I like the feel of the ski. I have previously skied the db surreal 95 (similar to the wailer 95). I thought it was powerful and a good ski, but that they had a certain "cardboard-like" feel to them. The wood/carboncore of the new product makes them feel a bit more... solid. It's hard to explain. These skis are so powerful, and yet they are very light and easy to throw around. The wood, I think, adds that little piece of burl to the feel of the ski.
Another possible negative, yet a small one. After skiing yesterday afternoon, I put the skis in the bag without wiping off the moist/snow. When I got home last night I was too tired to do anything with it. This morning I wiped off the snow and moist on the skies. And there were patches of rust. I'm not sure, but I think maybe this is faster than normal.
Telepath; So me buying this lotus 120 leaves me with a ski that is not optimal for anything:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
;)
Glisseur did "ok" on his 120's too I'd say, not a lot of people around skiing faster/better... Imo the 120 seems to make a good one ski quiver ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by KANUTTEN
Besides, next year when you get the 138 and the 105 you can remount the 120 with AT binders, sweet rig imo :D
Jeeeeez! Yesterday 100 was the new 90. Today 120 is the new 100! Where will it all end???Quote:
Originally Posted by Telepath
138 is the new 125
Thanks Kan. I generally stay away from 190+ because I skin for all my turns and the extra weight isn't worth it. The 180-185 range is what I prefer, but the combination of the lightweight, twin tip, and shovel make this ski seem to ride/hike a bit shorter than 190. Your thoughts confirm that. I'll stick with the 190. Just want to make sure I don't outgun my Dynafit/Matrix combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by KANUTTEN
So, you are thinking of putting a set of dynafits on the Lotus 120, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
It is the width, not the length, you need to worry about. I grow tired quite quickly standing on the edge on these wide skis; there are a lot of forces. Some physics person would be better at explaining this, but on skinny skis you push your forces straight down through the edge of the skis onto the ice. On wide skis you have to use a lot of force twisting the skis in order to make the edges stick to the ice. These forces would have to be carried from the legs to the edges on the skis by... the bindings.
If you were to ski in decent speed onto some icy crusty shit, and wanted to just dig those edges into the ice, well, I just don't know how the dynafit bindings would handle it. They would do better than all other AT bindings though, as they have better torsional rigidity (I guess...). Other experts should chime in here. But the increase on torsional stiffness demands on such a wide ski is - well - quite considerable.
In all softer conditions you would be absolutely killing it! I can't think of a better AT combo for non-hard conditions - I get a hard-on just thinking about it:)
Ice? I don't relate. I want a ski that carves the balls to chest deep blower that we ski so often around here. I have TLT's on a pair of Prohetes(106mm) and have zero problem getting them on edge. An extra 14mm is not going to make that big of a difference IMO. I also use Dynas on my 135mm splitboard skis and have no issues skiing down stuff on them at times. They should be here in the next day or two so I'll let you know how it goes. Can't freakin wait. :yourock:
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
That's what I thought. Occasionally you might hit some harder surfaces where you might consider using those edges. Still a lot of forces....
You'll be ruling the mountains, bro'!!!:biggrin: