Q for engineers & others: Will the volume of a steel box change when deformed?

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

shit gets complicated when the sides are not perfectly square... which they wont be. And apparently we are now also considering every dent and deflection. Godspeed using a tape to precisely measure that volume- seems like a prank you might play on a CM intern in the field on their first day.


Really it comes down to tolerance, and what is considered in compliance. If the 3yard dumpster actually measures 2.92 yards, is that in compliance? If the company gives you a "3CY Dumpster" that only holds 2.84cy of water, but you can actually fit 3.5cy of crap piled above the rim, and they accept 1cy of overfill at no extra cost... are they shorting the customer, or are they giving the customer a good deal?

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To your first point, I was able to use a tape measure and Sketchup to get within ~1% of their expert's volume measurements...before we got their expert's measurements.

As for your second point, compliance is an important part of it, but so is commercial reasonableness, because the standard is "honesty in fact and the observance of reasonable commercial standards of fair dealing in the trade." If a jury says the company was dishonest in fact or failed to observe reasonable commercial standards of fair dealing in the trade, then they breached the contract. So, it seems like they need to show that the undersized dumpsters are standard within the trade. But if they identify the location of other undersized dumpsters--potentially in much larger markets--then they potentially open themselves up to liability in those places too. What a dilemma.

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Originally Posted by RootSkier

To your first point, I was able to use a tape measure and Sketchup to get within ~1% of their expert's volume measurements...before we got their expert's measurements.

As for your second point, compliance is an important part of it, but so is commercial reasonableness, because the standard is "honesty in fact and the observance of reasonable commercial standards of fair dealing in the trade." If a jury says the company was dishonest in fact or failed to observe reasonable commercial standards of fair dealing in the trade, then they breached the contract. So, it seems like they need to show that the undersized dumpsters are standard within the trade. But if they identify the location of other undersized dumpsters--potentially in much larger markets--then they potentially open themselves up to liability in those places too. What a dilemma.

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Seems like it could come down to what service was the company selling. Where they selling dumpster rentals (in which case the size of the dumpster matters)... or were they selling trash pickup (in which case the dumpster is just a conduit for the service much like a movie theater selling 32oz popcorns in a 28oz bag because they are accounting for overfill).

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Originally Posted by Not DJSapp

From experience, a loader operator is completely capable of both expanding and reducing the volume of a dumpster within the same minute.

Would your lawsuit completely go away if the disposal company called the dumpster sizes tall, grande, and venti?

Protip: you can get a lot more in a dumpster if you set fire to the contents daily. Just like this thread.

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this is the answer

they give me the really jacked up destroyed dumpsters when we are using a machine to fill it the sides are bashed in or out the top rails are bent down
so my guess is maybe

Time for the Office of Weights and Measures to get involved. Surely there's some standard for how much beverage has to be in a 12 oz can, or more specific to this case, what % underfilling is acceptable. I'm hard pressed to imagine the dents are reducing volume by more than a few percent, which doesn't seem meaningful IMO. Photos may be required for research purposes

as I was nodding off during my year end review last week I found out I spent 58 k on trash hauling last year
now I pay by the pound plus a haul fee

I'm guessing you are paying by the cubic inch? is this why you are upset?

trash hauling is a racket and the amount of trash managment I feel like I do is pretty silly throw the shit out and haul it away and burry it right? It's a pass through cost bid high and go even higher

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

Time for the Office of Weights and Measures to get involved. Surely there's some standard for how much beverage has to be in a 12 oz can, or more specific to this case, what % underfilling is acceptable. I'm hard pressed to imagine the dents are reducing volume by more than a few percent, which doesn't seem meaningful IMO. Photos may be required for research purposes

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To be clear, photos of the wife/GF's tits next to the dents to compare the volume of dents to the volume of the cup size.

We talking about this?
https://juddocumentservice.mt.gov/ge...d?DocId=479010
https://juddocumentservice.mt.gov/ge...d?DocId=471428


Seems like whether or not deformation enlarges the dumpster is not a particularly significant issue here...but fuck the dumpster company for buying 2.5yd containers and selling them as 3yd service.

Even if you accept the argument that they didn't charge for at least a yard of overage (so everyone technically got "at least 3yd" pickup), that's still some bullshit. That means anyone with a 2.5yd bin has to deal with overflowing bins with lids that won't close on the regular, thus allowing easier pest access, worse smells, etc. A customer who noticed that their undersized bin was constantly overflowing might feel compelled to order a second/larger bin based on a mistaken belief that 3yds was insufficient for their needs.

The fact that they knowingly had both sizes in service for the same price point and apparently did not have any sort of fine print/disclaimer saying "your bin might not be 3yd, but you will still get at least 3yd of pickup" tells you they were trying to slip it by the customers and avoid the capital cost of having to replace their undersized bins prematurely.

But there are also some legitimate class cert questions here...you can't always get a class certified even when the company is clearly in the wrong. From those two briefs I'd guess the cert sticks (and a settlement offer follows) but who knows.

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Originally Posted by singlesline

they were trying to slip it by the customers and avoid the capital cost of having to replace their undersized bins prematurely.

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100%. I think everyone understands that was the case.


Proving and quantifying the harm done? Much harder.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

shit gets complicated when the sides are not perfectly square... which they wont be. And apparently we are now also considering every dent and deflection. Godspeed using a tape to precisely measure that volume- seems like a prank you might play on a CM intern in the field on their first day.

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point cloud scanning now required on all outgoing debris dumpsters

This thread made me go measure the three forty yarders I have on my site and they are larger than noted by a yard and a half. But I’m charged by pull + weight anyway…

The real challenge is to figure out how to get the electricians to put their trash in said dumpsters… Maybe I should sue em.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Does the volume of a water bottle change when you squeeze it?

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Originally Posted by nickwm21

Te

The real challenge is to figure out how to get the electricians to put their trash in said dumpsters… Maybe I should sue em.

ms

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let me know how you solve this problem

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Originally Posted by nickwm21

This thread made me go measure the three forty yarders I have on my site and they are larger than noted by a yard and a half. But I’m charged by pull + weight anyway…

The real challenge is to figure out how to get the electricians to put their trash in said dumpsters… Maybe I should sue em.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Why do you think they became electricians. Like doctors, lawyers, dentists--so other people have to pick up their trash.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by singlesline

We talking about this?
https://juddocumentservice.mt.gov/ge...d?DocId=479010
https://juddocumentservice.mt.gov/ge...d?DocId=471428


Seems like whether or not deformation enlarges the dumpster is not a particularly significant issue here...but fuck the dumpster company for buying 2.5yd containers and selling them as 3yd service.

Even if you accept the argument that they didn't charge for at least a yard of overage (so everyone technically got "at least 3yd" pickup), that's still some bullshit. That means anyone with a 2.5yd bin has to deal with overflowing bins with lids that won't close on the regular, thus allowing easier pest access, worse smells, etc. A customer who noticed that their undersized bin was constantly overflowing might feel compelled to order a second/larger bin based on a mistaken belief that 3yds was insufficient for their needs.

The fact that they knowingly had both sizes in service for the same price point and apparently did not have any sort of fine print/disclaimer saying "your bin might not be 3yd, but you will still get at least 3yd of pickup" tells you they were trying to slip it by the customers and avoid the capital cost of having to replace their undersized bins prematurely.

But there are also some legitimate class cert questions here...you can't always get a class certified even when the company is clearly in the wrong. From those two briefs I'd guess the cert sticks (and a settlement offer follows) but who knows.

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Yes, that's the case. And I think your analysis is pretty much spot on.

I don't really think the deformation issue is that important but I was re-reading the expert report and figured that a question about garbage was well-suited to The Padded Room.