School me on race skis

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

155 +/- is Women's SL, 165 is Mens SL. There is nothing else. I'd go 165cm unless you are really tiny <140lbs and also think you'll actually run a SL course. Both have similar ~12M radius.

There are FIS norms for M, W, and Jr.'s. A U16 (for 14-15 yro's) FIS norm will be ~23M and run 180+, but much below that (17Xcm, <20M) the Jr skis also are softer and lighter so usually not a good choice for adults.

A "cheater race ski" is any non-FIS ski marketed to the masses, "cheater" because one can get an 18M radius ski to make a 27M+ turn, but getting a 27M+ ski to carve a 18M requires both technique and brute strength and is very tiring*. All the big brands- atomic redster G9, Volkl racetiger rmotion, Rossi, Fischer, Nordica, etc make a non-fis ski that fits this mold (~18M+/- and 175-185cm sizes).

And yeah, sharpen the edges 2*/1* or maybe run 3*side/1*base on any rec ski and that should greatly improve hard snow performance.

(*4 prs of M's and W's FIS 188+ 30M & 35M GS skis collecting dust in the ski room, while the 23M ones still get used).

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There is more than 1 company that have Slalom skis in 155 cm (Women's) then they have 160 cm and finally 165 cm as stated for men's FIS specification. Fischer for a while had a 166 cm slalom ski also (obviously for beer league or just for fun as not legal for FIS or racing that followed FIS rules...)

Anyone want to browse that is following this thread, here are some "race" ski demo's that you could check out. Many cheater GS skis and all levels of length and turning radius for comparison.

https://www.powder7.com/all-race-skis

I think the logical progression for OP is to pick up a couple year old FIS SL (165) on the cheap and go ski it. How you mesh with that ski will tell you everything you need to know on where to go from there (IE to full GS or beer league cheater or neither).


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That^^ and keep a fresh tune on the kastles. Get the existing skis baselined with stone grind to flat base and edge bevels reset, then frequent edge polishing and touching up the bases. Do the same with the race skis.

Others have said, ski swaps. There are also probably a couple of shops in town that have mounted race skis being sold cheap on consignment throughout the season.

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Based on your self assessment, get a cheater GS ski with a 17-19M radius. You won't find a 20+M in a sub 180 size anyway.

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This is probably the best advice from your description. You should be able to round up some used cheater race skis for cheap and if it doesn't suit your needs you'll only be out a few hundred bucks at most. If you really want a sports car and have some decent carving skills with fore/aft touch get some old school 23 m GS skis.

I have a beater pair of FIS Sl (Atomic Redster Marcel Hirscher SL's with the moto bases for the win) that I use mostly for coaching the little ones.

Awesome fun ski that just rip on the hard pack. They are also easy to turn on the Monkey Trail (gully jump run favoured by the u6 to u10 crowd). The kids are constantly skiing over them, the short length makes it easier to pick up the carnage, and they make me look good demonstrating the drills. No one wants to see me try and do spiess drills on gs skis!

But mainly they are really, really fun.

I highly recommend.

I also have a pair of rossi fis gs skis and a pair of the stockli laser gs skis. Between the two, for my fat middle aged ass the Stockli is the funner ski by far. Both need attention and aggressiveness, but the fis skis need so much more and are only really fun at ludicrous speed. I got them when we had a ski cross track (and a nephew changed sponsors so they were close to free) and they were perfect for that. Now that we don't I haven't touched them.

If you want the rossi's - for shipping and beer I could try and track them down (dig them out of the pile). But you can probably find a pair near you for less than the shipping.

The skis I mentioned before were probably U18 or U16. They held an edge beautifully on the firm but were soft enough to ski at moderate speed when things got crowded and to pivot when things got steep. I bought them for the edge hold, not to go fast.

Bump. I know next to nothing about race skis. I already ski really fast and do it on skis that aren't really meant for ripping fast on groomers. It's never gonna snow again. I'm 170ish pounds and the shortest skis I own are 183 Katanas. My favorite skis are 187 HL FL113. Pretty stiff, directional, meant for sending......but huge for ripping groomers.

So many "race skis" for sale for cheap on CL/Facebook but I have no idea what to buy.

IMO, a Master's GS in a 180 is gonna be a lot more fun than a full on GS ski.

But if you do go for a race ski, something in a 185 with a 24m radius is what you want. They are a U16 ski but should be stiff enough to really push. The 30m FIS skis will be a lot of work.

You want a racy “groomer” ski not a race ski. Race skis are a chore to ski anywhere but on packed snow with few people around.

I’d look at stuff like the Speedzone series from Dynastar, Blizzard Thunderbird/Firebird, Head Super Shape, etc. I like ~80mm underfoot skis for this purpose as you still have bite but less likely to boot out and a little more forgiving if the snow conditions change.

Or maybe Marshall has some r87 comps hidden away he’ll sell.

The above skis are going to provide a tighter sidecut and more balanced flex that will make them fun in a lot of different turn shapes and snow conditions. I actually like skiing skis like this time to time off-piste as well… helps you learn to use your ski more effectively and not just use the crutch of width and rocker. Gotta actually make the turns.

I took my 188/30 FIS GS and 180/18 Head e.speed Pro (cheater/rec carver/racy groomer) out on last week.

As you would imagine. The real race skis had higher minimum speed to work but were very confidence inspiring. No matter how fast you ski or hard you push they had more. They require you to be fully in the moment and on your game though. If you tend to lean in or run flat inside ski etc, they are FAFO skis.

The heads also can haul ass but, as you’d imagine, are more turny and lack that next gear that requires you look farther ahead and have some space.

At the end of the day when the groomers got beat up, I switched to 183/20.5 MX83s. They were fully capable of making nice round gs turns at speed with just a bit more of a laid back attitude. They made the soft edges and piles more fun too.

That makes sense. When the snow is like this I want to get a lot of edge hold and be able to really lay over the hips and make real turns. Super fast isn't the only goal and can only really let em go when you are on an empty trail early morning mid-week or late afternoon when everyone is at the bar already.

Rossi GS World Cup 182?

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Naw man. Get real groomer skis.

Those rossis will be a ton of fun for straight up groomer zoomers. Esp for those that enjoy life above 30 mph.

Agree with TAFKALVS. I had some Rossi World Cup GS skis with the FIS limit sidecut radius. They were a total chore, not enough space at my home resort to ski them. They were not fun for the conditions where I want something to arc turns the whole way down and the groomers might not be 100m wide.

I didn’t learn my lesson though and picked up some old Stockli SL and GS skis, although the latter have a more realistic 22.9m sidecut. I have to imagine the groomer zoomer skis like a Speedzone are more fun than a 30m radius race ski. In my case I found the Stocklis at a yardsale for $10 each with 914 or metal 916s and couldn’t pass them up!


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Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

Rossi GS World Cup 182?

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You are going to die.


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I think it's hard to make race skis fun if you don't have a race background.

If you just want to make a bunch of turns, a short radius carver like the Head SuperShape, Nordica Spitfire, Stockli AX, or whatever is going to be a lot more fun to make snappy slalom turns and mke the most of mellow man-made groomers. I prefer skis like the HL r87/r99, mx83/mx88, etc. for the ability to make varied turn shapes, relax on the traverses, ski with friends and still lay trenches at any time independent of speed or pitch. There's a pair of Enforcer 88s in GS that fit the bill. I don't think a purpose-built race ski is going to make any of that a reality for you.

Now, if you have tons of open space and the room to let them run, and are looking for speed then a race ski could be fun, just don't fuck up.

Up at the hill there are a lot of 183 womens GS FIS norm rossi double decks sez hand made in austria screened right on the top sheet in big letters

A former Alpine Canada rep was bringing them in for us virtualy brand new for 199$ now he sells RE

apparently the ski became useless for racing when they changed the rules, the tuning radius was >30M radius which is also screened right on the top sheet

With a chunk of Tr-block I won my class in the DH so they are fast, they are fun when it hasnt snowed for awhile, not hard to turn the biggest unfun is getting into any kind of untracked

When I say "turns" I mean edge hold huge radius train tracks at 40+ mph.

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Been a few years since I’ve skied BS, but pretty sure there’s room to ski a proper GS ski there. People on the run can be more prohibitive than anything though. Getting out early on super cold days with no fresh can be tough, but rewarding.

For myself I learned that there’s a lot more to 2D snow than I thought. True hero snow can be as rare as a big pow day.

Everything is a compromise. A race ski is going to be the right tool early, but as conditions change (snow and people) they can absolutely suck. Are you willing to head back to the car after an hour to change to a conditions appropriate ski?

I have two recent days on my R99 comps, and honestly don’t think I’d need any more ski. For more hard snow performance if you could grab an R87, or something similar, it’d fill the role you’re looking for. I sometimes grab the race skis but it’s usually more for a change of pace than the performance gain.


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Going against the crowd here: I vote full GS race ski, not dumbed down, 188-192cm. 3* side edge. Stay on the groomers.

One of the ones I have is an Elan labeled as a skicross ski, radius >33m. Fun!

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

Up at the hill there are a lot of 183 womens GS FIS norm rossi double decks sez hand made in austria screened right on the top sheet in big letters double deck Rossi? Austria? I think you mean Atomic? Rossi's race room is in France

A former Alpine Canada rep was bringing them in for us virtualy brand new for 199$ now he sells RE

apparently the ski became useless for racing when they changed the rules, the tuning radius was >30M radius which is also screened right on the top sheet

With a chunk of Tr-block I won my class in the DH so they are fast, they are fun when it hasnt snowed for awhile, not hard to turn the biggest unfun is getting into any kind of untracked

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see red

also red yeah i got rossi and atomic mixed up

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I’ve taken my kids old GS skis out a couple of times this week and for ripping groomers there’s nothing like it - so fast, so much edge grip, alot of fun when the other skiing isn’t the greatest.
I’m skiing a 182/25m Rossi, maybe a year or two newer than what you posted up thread.
I’m not a former racer but I’ve picked up a thing or two over the years so technique is decent but not great. Simply no way I’d want a FIS 30m on an open resort run - I think I’d kill or maim myself or worse, someone else. I do wonder about trying the 185/27m that kid is racing this year that I might keep for myself but honestly i feel my boot (rx130) over flexing before I notice the ski too soft.

If that Rossi is cheap go for it - sure the performance frontside groomer category of ski might be more versatile but I don’t think they can match a real race ski if you keep it in the right terrain - and I think radius matters more than length for those of us without formal race training seeking to rip a GS ski around on open resort runs

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

Rossi GS World Cup 182?

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I have some fischer gs skis that are similar. I have no racing background and really have no idea what I'm doing, but they're stupid fun when the conditions are truly horrible. Lay massive trenches in the iciest ice.

That said, they're also terrifying. They don't even start to work until close to 40 mph, and once they lock into a carve, they are locked in like no other ski I have ever been on. A run like Mr. K is bordering on too flat / slow to really make those skis work (at least for me).

I also have some blizzard non-fis spec beer league gs skis. Those things are way friendlier. Still carve a nice trench, but work at more reasonable speeds and are considerably less scary. Much more manageable when other people are around too.