Bibs.....again

DWR sucks all around these days due to industry goals to be more “environmentally friendly”. AFAIK there is nothing to be done here other than very regular washing with proper cleaning agents, reapplication of your wimpy dwr product of choice and machine drying to activate the chemical.

That said the waterproof breathable membrane is the key for staying dry in wet environments and under exertion. 20/20 is ideal if you’re a fat sweaty bulldog like me. You’ll find varying degrees of durability with these highly breathable 3L fabrics with most of them being a little less durable than 2L heavy duty stuff.

I wash my heavily used gore text at least once per month and more often if I’m hiking around a lot in it. Fwiw when I’m touring, I avoid gore Tex and use schoeller pants.

Interesting. Guess I’ll do a test wash with these old bibs now and see how they fare. And I was joking about smelling - if they did stink I’d wash em immediately but like I said everything here dries in minutes. And trust me I know stink - been playing hockey for 25 years.

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Originally Posted by Jvhowube

Interesting. Guess I’ll do a test wash with these old bibs now and see how they fare. And I was joking about smelling - if they did stink I’d wash em immediately but like I said everything here dries in minutes. And trust me I know stink - been playing hockey for 25 years.

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Your Gore-Tex pants do not care how much your McDonald’s eating ass stinks. It cares how much McD’s oil is oozing out of your pores into the pores of the fabric tho that’s for certain. [emoji6]

Hasn’t Micol taught us not to wash? Everyone has a different way of doing this stuff, I wish the actual fabric manufacturers would just say

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Originally Posted by jmedslc

Your Gore-Tex pants do not care how much your McDonald’s eating ass stinks. It cares how much McD’s oil is oozing out of your pores into the pores of the fabric tho that’s for certain. [emoji6]

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That’s why I Saran Wrap myself before skiing.

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

I’m on my third pair of Norrona Lofoten bibs since 2004, which I guess is its own endorsement. It’s kind of a hybrid bib, I guess, unlike the tamok.

I like their stuff… just bought a jacket, actually. The fit for a medium has been a little bit bruising to the old ego. They fit great at 155lbs. Kinda tight at 160-165. Over 165 is a problem and I’d prefer to not discuss it anymore thank you. It’s inspired me to keep it under 160, though, and when I’m drinking too much beer they let me know promptly.

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Heh, ya, I feel you on the 165+ thing. Mine are bit snug around the tummy compared to two years when I was around 160. Keeps us honest, I guess??

Need to do my AQS to the cuffs; that's the only part of the bibs that show wear. So bomber otherwise.

Re: Flylow. Like I mentioned up thread, my Bakers from a couple years ago were complete shit for durability. But my wife had the non-bib version of Bakers about 10 years ago - those things were bomber. Although the DWR sucked on them and they wetted out easily. So yeah, I think Flylow's durability / quality has just gone downhill.

Re: fit on Norrona. Some people are calling them a Euro fit. I don't see that at all, at least on the Tamok. Mine (medium, for my 5'9" 160 lbs) fit just a little snugger than the Bakers or Trewth bibs (both of which were fairly baggy on me). I had some Mammut bibs that were definitely Euro fit, and the Norronas aren't even close to that snug.

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Originally Posted by mr_pretzel

Hasn’t Micol taught us not to wash? Everyone has a different way of doing this stuff, I wish the actual fabric manufacturers would just say

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Not sure if serious…. But I warrantied my first pair of Norrona directly through Gore because they were delaminating, and the guy who handled my claim told me to wash with normal, basic detergent, skip any fabric softener, and dry on MEDIUM heat whenever they get wet or damp to avoid delaminating and keep them as waterproof as possible.

And he was kind of a dick about it.

https://www.gore-tex.com/support/care/outerwear

CORRECTION to high/medium. To be clear, I was specifically told by the dude to dry on high heat and that’s been my practice and my stupid narrow stance has led to ragged cuffs and that’s the only reason my 10 year old pair of bibs is nearing retirement.

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

Not sure if serious…. But I warrantied my first pair of Norrona directly through Gore because they were delaminating, and the guy who handled my claim told me to wash with normal, basic detergent, skip any fabric softener, and dry on high heat whenever they get wet or damp to avoid delaminating and keep them as waterproof as possible.

And he was kind of a dick about it.

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High heat? Be careful with high heat as that in itself can cause adhesives to unfurl. Hmm - unfurl? Maybe I mean delaminate. Or COME UNGLUED!!!?

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ith+aqua+seall

Fixing your own gear ^^ but if you are not gona wash them anyhow just walk all over them cuffs fuck em up and thro away when you can't stand your self

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Originally Posted by jmedslc

High heat? Be careful with high heat as that in itself can cause adhesives to unfurl. Hmm - unfurl? Maybe I mean delaminate. Or COME UNGLUED!!!?

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Corrected my post to avoid confusion and misinformation.

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Originally Posted by jmedslc

High heat? Be careful with high heat as that in itself can cause adhesives to unfurl. Hmm - unfurl? Maybe I mean delaminate. Or CONE UNGLUED!!!?

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yeah IME sometimes the seam tape will come unstuck so I try not to leave a piece in for too long

it was the heat glued Patagucci but I had a soft shell come out of the dryer with the seam across the shoulders completely let go, a hole big enough to put yer head thru

IME with drysuits repair some gortex is real shit ( any thing made by Mustang )and some is really good ( we got kokatat that is still water proof after 10 years )

we don't wash or dry dry suits cuz too many of them and the dryer melts the latex seals

Update: Jacket and bibs are in the wash with Nikwash.

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Originally Posted by Jvhowube

Update: Jacket and bibs are in the wash with Nikwash.

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Next time buy Atsko sport wash. Better and a shit load cheaper.

I just wash with detergent and then run a cycle with only water to get all the detergent out

I only use spray on DWR, it comes in water based or solvent based, Big Steve used to claim solvent base was much better but i found that inconclusive

But I am pretty sure all the water based spray-on is the same stuff, I ran out of product so I did half a Arcterxy Beta in grangers and half in revivex, water repelency was about the same after 9 months

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Re: fit on Norrona. Some people are calling them a Euro fit. I don't see that at all, at least on the Tamok. Mine (medium, for my 5'9" 160 lbs) fit just a little snugger than the Bakers or Trewth bibs (both of which were fairly baggy on me). I had some Mammut bibs that were definitely Euro fit, and the Norronas aren't even close to that snug.

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Tamok is a much more relaxed fit compared to Lofoten and especially their more active lines. The Medium Tamok jacket felt like an XL when I tried it on. Mammut though, is for sure Euro narrow.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

I just wash with detergent and then run a cycle with only water to get all the detergent out

I only use spray on DWR, it comes in water based or solvent based, Big Steve used to claim solvent base was much better but i found that inconclusive

But I am pretty sure all the water based spray-on is the same stuff, I ran out of product so I did half a Arcterxy Beta in grangers and half in revivex, water repelency was about the same after 9 months

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303 ftmfw.

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Originally Posted by alpinevibes

Tamok is a much more relaxed fit compared to Lofoten and especially their more active lines. The Medium Tamok jacket felt like an XL when I tried it on. Mammut though, is for sure Euro narrow.

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Ah, that makes sense. Was kind of wondering how people were finding Norrona stuff to be so tight.

My medium Tamoks are maybe just a smidge big (long) on me. Probably perfect for someone 5'10".

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

303 ftmfw.

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303 is great for protection from UV and i use gallons of it but I havent seen anything that sez 303 is a DWR

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

303 is great for protection from UV and i use gallons of it but I havent seen anything that sez 303 is a DWR

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Huh.

303 Fabric Guard - 32oz (30606) https://www.walmart.com/ip/45626487

https://www.303products.com.au/produ...e-fabric-guard

303 has always been the space age protectant, which i have been using for years by the gallon, I think they used it on the rubber seals on the space shuttle or sft

it looks like maybe they branched out into a solvent based DWR ?

I havent used that 303 and i don't think i would use it on latex

Has anyone tried these guys for repairs?

They run a laundry service as well

https://rainypass.com/services/

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Originally Posted by Jvhowube

I’ve washed waterproof stuff before and done the recoating with DWR. Its never as good as the original. You can get away with not washing outerwear in Colorado cause everything dries in five minutes. So here we are, five years later and nobody will sit next to me on a chairlift.

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Same reason flylow (Colorado based) can make gear they label add waterproof but is less effective than scotch guard.

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Originally Posted by hoarhey

Has anyone tried these guys for repairs?

They run a laundry service as well

https://rainypass.com/services/

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They are the premier repair shop here in Seattle. Lots of Mags use them.

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Originally Posted by justcuz

Don't tempt me. Honestly I'm getting older and seriously struggling staying warm. I have a pair of Black Diamond Mission insulated pants that I love, but I want to give bibs a shot in the non-insulated form with a couple of heavier bases to see how it goes. If it's successful, I'll go all in and get some insulated bibs as well. Can't go Stio because they don't have black, and I do plan to wear them patrolling which means black only (sorta sucks but I'm not much for colors anyway).

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You really should check out the FLylow Snowman bib for cold days. We had so many just stupid cold days in Vermont this year. I bought them 3 years ago, but use them more this year than the last 2 combined. Has good venting if you do get stuck in too warm of temps.