I blame the Louisiana Governor

Heartbreaking indeed.
I just saw a woman on the news who couldn't find her 24 month old b/c the babys father wouldnt get ton a bus and leave his dog behind, so he gave the baby to a friend and hasn't seen her since.
I love my dog, but if I gave my baby away, my wife would kill me.

This is really heartbreaking:
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Mayor says Katrina may have claimed more than 10,000 lives

Bodies found piled in freezer at Convention Center

By Brian Thevenot
Staff writer

Arkansas National Guardsman Mikel Brooks stepped through the food service entrance of the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center Monday, flipped on the light at the end of his machine gun, and started pointing out bodies.

"Don't step in that blood - it's contaminated," he said. "That one with his arm sticking up in the air, he's an old man."
Then he shined the light on the smaller human figure under the white sheet next to the elderly man.

"That's a kid," he said. "There's another one in the freezer, a 7-year-old with her throat cut."
He moved on, walking quickly through the darkness, pulling his camouflage shirt to his face to screen out the overwhelming odor.
"There's an old woman," he said, pointing to a wheelchair covered by a sheet. "I escorted her in myself. And that old man got bludgeoned to death," he said of the body lying on the floor next to the wheelchair.

Brooks and several other Guardsmen said they had seen between 30 and 40 more bodies in the Convention Center's freezer. "It's not on, but at least you can shut the door," said fellow Guardsman Phillip Thompson.

I fully expected the responses I've seen thus far. I'd just to point out that after Huurricane Andrew (Warthog ~ please correct me if I'm mistaken.), it took 3 days for emergency crews to get to the hardest hit areas. It took FIVE days for the Nat. Guard and Military to reach the stricken area with aid & supplies. That was in FL. Now, mobilizing tens of thousands of volunteers ain't my job, but I'm guessing it takes a bit more than a single phonecall - call me a realist.

Obviously, there are other concerns to be taken into account when your city lies below sea level and your levees are only designed to withstand a maximum CAT3 storm.

The State of LA should have been better prepared. It's that simple. Pointing fingers at the Fed Gov is anticipated - pointing them at Bush is *expected*.

That a disproportionately small number of people are not willing to put the blame on the STATE, or even admit that the LA gov't should be held accountable / responsible for any of this simply astounds me.

Actually, no - it doesn't really.

edited: for Schmear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EPSkis

That nobody seems to ... admit that the LA gov't should be held accountable / responsible for any of this simply astounds me.

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Did you miss the title of this thread?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Schmear

Did you miss the title of this thread?

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"A disproportionately SMALL number of people". Better?
:p

Much better.

EP: is it not the direct responsibility of DHS to prepare for situations exactly like this one (although not hurricane-related)? Four years after 9/11 and after repeated pats on the back, this is what $41 billion buys us?

I'm willing to hold every person accountable as the facts come in. My list right now would be:
Blanco, Brown, Chertoff - all OUT

Nagin - judgement withheld just b/c that talk show phone call was what actually woke people up

Bush - can't be fired, but he is the CEO and certainly should bear responsibility for the incompetence and horrible mismanagement of his employees (aka political patronage beneficiaries)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shamrockpow

EP: is it not the direct responsibility of DHS to prepare for situations exactly like this one (although not hurricane-related)? Four years after 9/11 and after repeated pats on the back, this is what $41 billion buys us?

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In short: No.

"The Department of Homeland Security consolidates 22 agencies and 180,000 employees, unifying once-fragmented Federal functions in a single agency dedicated to protecting America from terrorism."

I understand the point you're trying to make with it, but no - it's not DHS's responsibility. Yes, there is an emergency preparedness infrastructure in place, though it's not intended to be used in that capacity.

(And c'mon - you know as well as I do that that would be the NEXT uproar. "Look at what they're doing with our $41 billion dollars! It wasn't meant to be used for natural disasters! Give us the President's HEAD!") :wink:

edit: On the rest, I basically concur.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EPSkis

In short: No.

I understand the point you're trying to make with it, but no - it's not DHS's responsibility. Yes, there is an emergency preparedness infrastructure in place, though it's not intended to be used in that capacity.

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Why does FEMA exist then?

edit: And on a broader note - how should relief be coordinated for large scale multi-state disasters? By an association of states? If so, isn't that what the federal government is?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EPSkis

In short: No.

I understand the point you're trying to make with it, but no - it's not DHS's responsibility. Yes, there is an emergency preparedness infrastructure in place, though it's not intended to be used in that capacity.

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EP, if you dont know shit about what you are talking about, please feel free to SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Dumbass.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cj001f

Why does FEMA exist then?

edit: And on a broader note - how should relief be coordinated for large scale multi-state disasters? By an association of states? If so, isn't that what the federal government is?

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FEMA, yes - DHS, no.

It'll be interesting to see the findings will be & how this will change the FEMA policy (also curious as to whether the scope of DHS will be expanded - interesting point Sham makes..)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grrrr

EP, if you dont know shit about what you are talking about, please feel free to SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Dumbass.

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Normally, I don't take that kind of thing to heart, but in your case....

I'll summarize:

You're a first-class jackoff. Do you really need a fucking Mission Statement handed to you? Sit back down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EPSkis

FEMA, yes - DHS, no.

It'll be interesting to see the findings will be & how this will change the FEMA policy (also curious as to whether the scope of DHS will be expanded - interesting point Sham makes..)

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FEMA is a part of DHS

So, EP, should I call back the six firefighters I sent down today? Heck, it isn't a terrorism event. Louisiana should be on their own. And while I'm at it, I'll call the local Coast Guard Commandant and tell him to stop responding to sinking boats. After all, they're DHS too.

You know what the 41 billion paid for? I got a load of "anthrax suits" that I never asked for sitting here collecting dust. Can't use them, they're totally worthless. $60,000 worth. But it paid for a bunch of "good press" for Georgie - he was strengthening our country.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EPSkis

Normally, I don't take that kind of thing to heart, but in your case....

I'll summarize:

You're a first-class jackoff. Do you really need a fucking Mission Statement handed to you? Sit back down.

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Do I need a mission statement? No. I went to work on Hurricane Katrina last Tuesday morning, and I have done nothing else since then. Including the entire weekend -which technically I had off, but I spent it organizing red cross volunteers and conducting a fund drive.

But that's what I do. I work for a local government 2000 miles from Louisiana, but our help is needed. So we help. In spite of all of the roadblocks put in place by the department of bloatland security. I'll tell you right now, you have no idea how far that agency has set our Nation's capability to respond to disasters back. If you really think any one state can or should be able to handle a major disaster, you should just pull your head into a cubicle and keep typing that TPS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grrrr

So, EP, should I call back the six firefighters I sent down today? Heck, it isn't a terrorism event. Louisiana should be on their own. And while I'm at it, I'll call the local Coast Guard Commandant and tell him to stop responding to sinking boats. After all, they're DHS too.

You know what the 41 billion paid for? I got a load of "anthrax suits" that I never asked for sitting here collecting dust. Can't use them, they're totally worthless. $60,000 worth. But it paid for a bunch of "good press" for Georgie - he was strengthening our country.

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I just hope your guys don't have to hand out flyers.

EP: I sat here and typed in a post about DHS's org structure, the 14 points of light, where FEMA fits in, why we have redundant functions, and how the chain of command works. Needless to say the post was brilliant and would have completely altered your perceptions.

Unfortunatly that post was eaten by the internet :(

Instead, just kick back and read the words of Lt. Commander Sean Kelly, a Pentagon spokesman for Northern Command:
"Northcom started planning before the storm even hit.... We had the USS Bataan sailing almost behind the hurricane so once the hurricane made landfall, its search and rescue helicopters could be available almost immediately. So, we had things ready. The only caveat is: we have to wait until the president authorizes us to do so. The laws of the United States say that the military can't just act in this fashion; we have to wait for the president to give us permission."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bossass

By 100 or 1000 year storm I meant all the factors that came together to hit NO like it did. Camille didn't devestate like that and I've heard nothing of a storm of that devestation being on record. I was obviously not saying a CAT5 hurricane making landfall only happens every 100 or 1000 years.

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It wasn't the storm, it was the flood. If I sat there and looked at that pathetic wall for what, 30 years, holding back a sea above my town I'd want to shore that fucker up. How is that a federal thing? If so we better start the blame WAY back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bossass

And bless Kayne West for saying so on TV yesterday. "George Bush hates black people."

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Bless Kayne West??? :rolleyes: Yeah, he's done a whole boatload for this country. And I'm sure the president just hates black people, that's why he let this happen. I hear he's planning a big flood for Washington D.C.

Seriously, there are tons of parties guilty in this mess but you guys have again let your hate for Bush blind you. The muckity mucks don't give a shit about you, that includes cardboard gore, old man lieberman and ice princess clinton. I highly doubt it would have had any different result under any other politician...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1080Rider

It wasn't the storm, it was the flood. If I sat there and looked at that pathetic wall for what, 30 years, holding back a sea above my town I'd want to shore that fucker up. How is that a federal thing? If so we better start the blame WAY back.

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i'm still not into throwing blame around yet. there's just too much to be done to waste time with that.

just so people know, the levee needed to be raised due to the deposition of sediment that basically raised the water level. that's the same reason that new orleans used to be at and above sea level. the levee was breached when high water overflowed it and caused the soil on the other side to erode. that is when the wall broke.

louisiana has had a lot of money come its way and go. we have some of the worst schools, roads and public buildings but we know why. check the stats and you'll see that we also have the most former politicians in jail.

The only ones that win in the blame game is the fuckin media. They thrive on that shit. I blame them as well. Keeping reporters in the storm zone only encourages others not to evac. Only fox isn't gonna leave their boy Shep out to dry w/ food and water. Maybe the ratings will go up enough so sensalizing Greta can get the mug redone again and Geraldo can get some quality ink. Oh yeah and I blame the the "chesse eating surrender monkey's" as Woodsy calls em. Cause they built the first leavves and fucked with Mother Nature's River Delta Floodplain Master Plan. Now if I could just turn off the TV.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skifishbum

Geraldo can get some quality ink

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I don't think this was the ink he was looking for:

The woman had been stranded in her home for six days. Geraldo picked up the woman and her dog and brought them here . . .

"'That's the second time he brought her here,' one of the doctors tells me, nodding toward Geraldo.

"What?'

"'They did two takes. Geraldo made that poor woman walk from the Fox News van to the heliport twice. Both times carrying her dog.'

"'Are you serious?' I ask. He says he is."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...ins/index.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cj001f

I don't think this was the ink he was looking for:

The woman had been stranded in her home for six days. Geraldo picked up the woman and her dog and brought them here . . .

"'That's the second time he brought her here,' one of the doctors tells me, nodding toward Geraldo.

"What?'

"'They did two takes. Geraldo made that poor woman walk from the Fox News van to the heliport twice. Both times carrying her dog.'

"'Are you serious?' I ask. He says he is."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...ins/index.html

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I wouldn't believe that if it were about anyone but Geraldo. Putting that guy in the field is like throwing a match on a pile of leaves. He was forcibly removed from Iraq by the military for giving away positions of American troops. I watched him practically incite a riot at the convention center. Someone needs to fire this guy.

Found this on a blog. Whoever wrote this nailed it on the head, twice. Why Bush's actions in this whole mess are sitting with me extra specially worse than normal. Titled: Here's what gets me.

People are going around and around about who should have done what at what time to get food and water to the victims of Katrina, and to get the buses there to evacuate people from the city who didn't get out on their own, and to get medical care to the elderly so they wouldn't die, and to get control of the shelter areas so that people wouldn't be beaten, raped, and murdered at the convention center and the Superdome. Let's assume we're not deciding who should have done what at what time.
My problem with Bush -- and here, I do indeed address Bush individually, as a guy -- is that during the time that the crisis was developing, from Monday to Friday, he never seemed to experience any actual sense of urgency as a result of the simple fact that people were, minute by minute and hour by hour, dying.
Let's give him the benefit of the doubt that he was being prevented from acting by bureaucracy and the sheer magnitude of the situation. Where are the stories of how he was in his office freaking the fuck out because there were tens of thousands of Americans trapped without food and water? Where's the story of how he ripped a strip off of somebody, demanding to know what the holy hell the holdup is getting water and food to those people?
I want to hear about how he was demanding that extraordinary steps be taken. I want to hear about how he sent his lawyers into a room -- he had four days, you know -- and demanded that they come back in an hour with a plan for him to send the Marines into New Orleans with 100 trucks of food and water, posse comitatus or not. I want to hear that he was panicked. Because I was panicked. Everyone I know was panicked. Everyone I know was gnashing their teeth with helpless rage because they couldn't get in a car, drive down there, and drive a load of homeless Louisiana residents back home with them for soup and a goddamn hot bath. I want to hear that he acted at some point out of genuine despondency about the fact that citizens of the country he is supposed to be running were being starved and dehydrated in a hellish, fetid prison. We are dancing around now about whether it is his failure or not his failure. Where is the decency that would tell him that he is the president, and FEMA is part of his administration, and this failure is his to own and apologize for, whether other people also were wrong or not?
Why is he even trying to shift blame to anyone else? Why isn't he wracked with such guilt, justified or not, that he can't stand up straight? How is it possible that late in the week, when it was so obvious that every safeguard meant to guard against just this kind of catastrophe had failed and he had failed every citizen of that city, he had the joviality to make jokes about his partying days in New Orleans? I'm not talking here about appropriateness or sensitivity, although both were obviously lacking, and there's been no apology for that, either. I'm wondering how it's possible that he felt that way. How was he not tormented? Because he wasn't. You can see that he wasn't. I would feel better if there were some report that he seemed, at some point... shaken. Upset. Angry. Desperate. Something. Something other than "on vacation" and then "lecturing emptily about how much help everyone's going to get, provided they haven't already died of dehydration, drowned, or committed suicide."
The state has the primary responsibility, you say? Okay, fine. Then I want to hear how Bush offered the governor whatever she wanted on whatever terms he could legally get it to her, because it made absolutely no difference who got credit. I want to hear how he couldn't concentrate like the rest of us couldn't concentrate, because he was so consumed by images on television of old women in wheelchairs slowly dying.
Prevented from going into the city by the criminals? Are you telling me that armed thugs could take over a suburban neighborhood and surround it, and law enforcement would stand back until the thugs decided to go away? The people at the Superdome who were following all the rules were being, in a sense, held hostage by the relatively small number who chose to be violent -- to shoot at planes and whatnot. Since when do we leave good citizens to die because we don't want to get dirty doing law enforcement?
Say what you want about the mayor and governor -- those people were in pain. They saw people suffering and dying and took it as a given that it couldn't go on that way, and that if it did, government's response would be a failure. The mayor cried at the top of his lungs for help. I want to hear that Bush cried at the top of his lungs for help. I want to hear that he called every corporate hotshot he's befriended in the last twenty years and told them that if they ever wanted another invitation to the White House for dinner, they were going to pony up a fat wad of cash to the Red Cross, and they were going to do it yesterday.
I want him to have reacted like a person who happened to also be the president. I want him to have felt the same bone-deep sense of shock that I felt at the thought that this could happen in a large city, easily accessible by trucks, in a wealthy country. I want him to have gotten on the damn phone and told somebody that if there wasn't water for every person at the Superdome within eight hours, that person's head was going to roll, and he didn't care how it got done, it had better get done. I want him not to have sat around on his ass on vacation while people's children were being taken from their arms to be rescued.
I want Bush not to have spent four days dicking around while the conditions deteriorated. I want him to have acted sooner, not because it was his obligation as president and it would reflect badly on him if he didn't, but because people were dying, and everyone I know who could think of something to do did it. There were a million things he could have done besides sit around making happy speeches about how everything would be fine. The stupid comment about Trent Lott's porch doesn't infuriate me because Trent Lott can't miss his porch. He has as much right to be sad over his losses as anyone. But the lighthearted way in which Bush delivered those remarks was absolutely chilling.
I want him to have been consumed with grief and sorrow at the dying that was ongoing, and he wasn't. I want him to have felt like a profound failure because an entire segment of the population of one of America's greatest cities was suffering and was at risk of starving to death, but he didn't. I want him to have been embarrassed when the FEMA director gave up the information that FEMA knew less about the convention center than CNN, but he wasn't. I want him not to have smirked his way through the entire experience, and he did.
No matter whose fault the slow relief effort was, the fact of the matter is that these are Americans, and this is their president, and the fact that they were homeless, starving, dying of thirst, and deprived of medication never once seemed to actually bother him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bossass

Found this on a blog.

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Bush doesn't seem capable of rising to the occasion. I don't know whether he lacks the intellectual capacity, empathy or what but everytime there is a goddamn emergency in the US he looks like a rabit caught in the headlamps unable to move a muscle. He is not the guy you want as leader of the free world. He is not the guy you want saving your ass when it is on the line.

However, and speaking as a non-US citizen, I salute the amount of resources that the US is (eventually) able to bring to bear on the situation. 60,000 troops? That's bigger than most armies in a European country. Just look at the bush fires in Portugal to see how fast and how much help Europe is able to bring to a fellow country, not a lot. Like one of the posters above when I saw people's houses burning to the ground in Portugal because the fire service was overwhelmed I wanted to get down there and help those folks beat out fires, or at least have my government immediately send some army units to help out (they did send some Canadair planes - although they are grounded here due to some accidents - so maybe a good way to keep the pilots trained).

Get use to this kind of disaster as human populations explode! :tongue: