softshell jacket (yes, again)

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Originally Posted by jono

Anyone is speaking to their own body and the conditions they're willing to get out in. Take it with a grain of salt or look closely at how similar your own tastes (and local conditions and physiology) are to theirs.

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thanks a lot, I appreciate and that's the reason why now with my last question I mainly would like to hear about the three different technologies/membranes i posted (Infinium, Arc, Rab), if Gore is better/worse than Rab membrane in terms of breathability etc. I grew up thinking GoreTex was the holy grail only to realize that was not the case. I hear a lot of good things about Gore Infinium but I am concerned it might be just marketing, so i'd appreciate any direct comparison/experience with classic Gamma or other brands

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

None of this offends me.

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Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.

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Originally Posted by lorcar

thanks a lot, I appreciate and that's the reason why now with my last question I mainly would like to hear about the three different technologies/membranes i posted (Infinium, Arc, Rab), if Gore is better/worse than Rab membrane in terms of breathability etc. I grew up thinking GoreTex was the holy grail only to realize that was not the case. I hear a lot of good things about Gore Infinium but I am concerned it might be just marketing, so i'd appreciate any direct comparison/experience with classic Gamma or other brands

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If you search around a bit for MiCol's posts (and/or Freeride Systems) you'll notice that the same materials are generally available to different manufacturers (with notable exceptions). It might be more generally useful to look at specific fabric rather than brand/model of jacket (when possible).

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Originally Posted by lorcar

https://rab.equipment/eu/kinetic-2-0-jacket

i discovered this by chance and it seems to hit all the criteria. However not so many reviews/comparisons on the web, and also i read it does have a membrane, so based on this thread "if it has a membrane, doesnt breathe well". Do you have any experience with it? i read RAB has great quality

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I have this piece and I love it, it will replace my older Gore-Tex jacket as my hard shell for backcountry skiing, (and a lot of inbounds). I like to think of these newer designs as stretchy hard-shells. It’s definitely a hard shell, but it’s amazing how much stretch it has, so you can almost size down. Goretex futurelight seems similar, maybe not as much stretch.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I have this piece and I love it, it will replace my older Gore-Tex jacket as my hard shell for backcountry skiing, (and a lot of inbounds). I like to think of these newer designs as stretchy hard-shells. It’s definitely a hard shell, but it’s amazing how much stretch it has, so you can almost size down. Goretex futurelight seems similar, maybe not as much stretch.

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I briefly had their touring pants with the same material. Definitely stretchy but the backer fabric made it too warm for most uses here in the Sierra like pretty much all other hardshells.

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Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar

I briefly had their touring pants with the same material. Definitely stretchy but the backer fabric made it too warm for most uses here in the Sierra like pretty much all other hardshells.

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Here in Washington, I’ve toured in my Gore-Tex pants, I think, once because it was raining. Always soft shell pants for me.

is there any Neo shell around nowdays ? I still have a marmot I bought in 2013, it breathes but not as well as other soft shells so its good for colder weather. IME Neoshell is more water resistant than most soft shells but not like a hardshell I dunno if its changed any but IME a piece is on a continuim of either it breathes more or its more water proof

I work on probably 100 Gortex or wannabe dry suit a year that are abused hard in a rescue 3 swift water course by people who don't know what they re doing, So IME there is Gortex and then there is every thing else in terms of the products staying togetehr, I got 10 yr old real gortex that are still working fine and i got pretenders that are de-laminating almost right out of the plastic wrapper

has anyone fondled the new Procline stuff from Arcteryx? I've yet to see it show up in stores but I have a Arc giftcard burning a hole in my wallet

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Originally Posted by bennymac

has anyone fondled the new Procline stuff from Arcteryx? I've yet to see it show up in stores but I have a Arc giftcard burning a hole in my wallet

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I kinda regret selling my old procline jacket for running around town, but honestly prefer the nano air light/houdini combination better for active pursuits.

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Originally Posted by lorcar

thanks a lot, I appreciate and that's the reason why now with my last question I mainly would like to hear about the three different technologies/membranes i posted (Infinium, Arc, Rab), if Gore is better/worse than Rab membrane in terms of breathability etc. I grew up thinking GoreTex was the holy grail only to realize that was not the case. I hear a lot of good things about Gore Infinium but I am concerned it might be just marketing, so i'd appreciate any direct comparison/experience with classic Gamma or other brands

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The real problem with Gore is that they're overcommitted by necessity to the idea that a jacket needs to be waterproof to an extreme. As a result, they won't ever breathe well. If they step away from the idea of a waterproof jacket, then I'd probably pay attention. Until then, it doesn't make much sense to me in a skiing jacket (maybe resorts, but even then I prefer Neoshell or similar).

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Originally Posted by bennymac

has anyone fondled the new Procline stuff from Arcteryx? I've yet to see it show up in stores but I have a Arc giftcard burning a hole in my wallet

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Haven't fondled it but not super impressed for touring from what I have seen. Pow skirt on a "softshell" (which it barely is imo) seems like unnecessary weight and hassle, would rather have $37 off the price. It is HEAVY, almost 150g heavier than my FRS hardshell. It's also heavier than every sleeping bag I own and my heavy weight belay jacket.
Gore-tex infinium is also not breathable IMO. It has a membrane as discussed above. It makes sense in hybrid layers (where is is only used on pieces of the jacket) only imo. However, I would consider the jacket for sunny but windy inbounds use (happens a lot in CA) and the pants would be nice for a lighter weight all weather touring option. For touring if you need the weather protection of infinium over other membrane-less softshells I think you would be better served with an "Electrospun membrane" hardshell - NF Futurelight, OR stuff, the rab kinetic, etc.

An Arc Softshell I would like touring is the Trino SL - which has a infinium front, shoulders, and arms but then a membrane-less back and sides for superior breathability or the Gamma LT/SL for completely membrane-less.

^ your knowledge and common sense is conflicting with my naive consumeristic tendency to accumulate more unnecessary ski clothing

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Originally Posted by bennymac

^ your knowledge and common sense is conflicting with my naive consumeristic tendency to accumulate more unnecessary ski clothing

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Just buy a Trino SL, Squamish, and Alpha SL Anorak. Then you get a windshell, hybrid softshell, and hardshell all for about the same weight combined as the procline. And you lighten your wallet!

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Originally Posted by plugboots

Here in Washington, I’ve toured in my Gore-Tex pants, I think, once because it was raining. Always soft shell pants for me.

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Meh, I use goretex pants with hip and thigh vents mid-winter. They dump heat/breath better than a soft shell when vents are open and are warmer then soft shells when closed.

Different strokes for different folks, that should be the tread title.


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Different strokes for different folks, that should be the tread title.


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Hell, I can’t even remember from year to year what ‘system’ worked for me.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Different strokes for different folks, that should be the tread title.


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Nah, I vote for my way or the highway.

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Originally Posted by lorcar

first of all thank you so much for responding to my query, very insightful thread at the end.
So at the end one of the below 3 would be my choice, mostly for splitboarding or for going up with snowshoes and board on the backpack

https://arcteryx.com/us/en/shop/mens/procline-jacket


I understand Gore Infinium is supposed to be very breathable, have some bikers friends who love it, however if it breathes so well why then the armpit zip? someone might ask and also if it so weather resistant then it might not breathe so well

https://arcteryx.com/us/en/shop/mens/gamma-lt-hoody

This is a classic favourite by many


https://rab.equipment/eu/kinetic-2-0-jacket

i discovered this by chance and it seems to hit all the criteria. However not so many reviews/comparisons on the web, and also i read it does have a membrane, so based on this thread "if it has a membrane, doesnt breathe well". Do you have any experience with it? i read RAB has great quality

would you go straight with the GAMMA LT without any further ado?
thanks again

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I have that Rab jacket, it definitely has a membrane. I use it or an old Patagonia guide hoody (which is a light weight woven soft shell) depending on temps. Sweat wicking thin poly base layer and either jacket on top. Rab jacket is good from 10-20 degrees. Patagonia guide hoody for anything warmer, or just a thin base layer. Synthetic puffy goes on top of everything before descending. And I always carry a back up down puffy (MH ghost whisperer or more insulated depending on temps) in case of emergency. My only dislike of the RAB jacket is that it’s stinky, and I’m not a particularly smelly person.


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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Meh, I use goretex pants with hip and thigh vents mid-winter. They dump heat/breath better than a soft shell when vents are open and are warmer then soft shells when closed.

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Depends. I have a lot of choices, and the lightest are my ancient Arc’teryx soft shells, so I agree with you, but my soft shells are lighter so I always pick light.

The guide at the local hut had one of the big name mfger's at his hut for a week skiing/ pictures/ gear testing/ team building,

They bring duffels full of the stuff so one of them asked what jacket to wear and he said " I don't know i only have 1 "

So I just picked up the marmot ROM 2.0 on sale from the goat village store. Nice design, light and well laid out. Seems like a good snowshoe, tour and shoulder season piece. Hope to try this weekend


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Again on the topic: do you use softshell jacket also in deep/fresh snow, freeriding? i understand the improved breathability, especially needed on the way up. How do you manage it on the way down, especially when snow might get into or over the jacket, or you are knee-deep? i read there are people loving Softshell and never going back to hardshell.
Do you pack both soft and hardshell or just softshell? of hardshell only if you know it will snow?
i am asking because from time to time i fall down and snow gets into anywhere, so i would be concerned of using my new softshell on the way down.

Soft shell works for me except when it is snowing really hard and near freezing. Then I like the top half of the jacket to have a membrane. Since I like to have one go to jacket, this is the style I bought this Fall. A HH Odin hybrid. Been using this winter and like it..

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Originally Posted by lorcar

Again on the topic: do you use softshell jacket also in deep/fresh snow, freeriding? i understand the improved breathability, especially needed on the way up. How do you manage it on the way down, especially when snow might get into or over the jacket, or you are knee-deep? i read there are people loving Softshell and never going back to hardshell.
Do you pack both soft and hardshell or just softshell? of hardshell only if you know it will snow?
i am asking because from time to time i fall down and snow gets into anywhere, so i would be concerned of using my new softshell on the way down.

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For typical mid winter conditions, it’s softshell on the up, Insulated hardshell over the top on the transitions and descents. In milder conditions, often just the softshell.

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Originally Posted by lorcar

Again on the topic: do you use softshell jacket also in deep/fresh snow, freeriding? i understand the improved breathability, especially needed on the way up. How do you manage it on the way down, especially when snow might get into or over the jacket, or you are knee-deep? i read there are people loving Softshell and never going back to hardshell.
Do you pack both soft and hardshell or just softshell? of hardshell only if you know it will snow?
i am asking because from time to time i fall down and snow gets into anywhere, so i would be concerned of using my new softshell on the way down.

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Soft shell stays on all day, start skinning with puffy over softshell , stow the puffy after 15min, puffy goes over softshell at the top & for the ride down, if you worry about putting holes in puffy put it inside the softshell for the down

i almost never take a hardshell

ime doing up all the zips & hood on the soft shell are snow resistant enough to deal with snow if you fall

i see alot of new skiers sweating a bunch IMO wearing too much clothing, I don't need to wear much on the up when I am making heat, then insulate at the top