I would be interested in a light layup 191 normal or fat for winter touring if the price was reasonable and they came in at 7-8lbs for the pair.
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I would be interested in a light layup 191 normal or fat for winter touring if the price was reasonable and they came in at 7-8lbs for the pair.
I'd be in for a 191 Lhasa fat.
Indeed. It gets really confusing when people say "carbon" these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
But frankly, I don't know enough about ski design to understand the difference in feel/dampness and weight between a full carbon ski with, say, an ash or maple core versus a hybrid carbon-glass layup with a primarily paulownia core. What are the real advantages of a full carbon ski these days? I can't say I've noticed a difference in performance between say the DPS Wailer 105 (full carbon) and the Blizzard ZeroG 108 (hybrid?).
It pretty much depends on how you ski and what weight you like, whether you're a carver or a skidder and what you want in hardpack performance. That means a carbon layup is synergistic with the core, as you mentioned. A lighter core might not be as damp as a heavier core but will certainly be light for skinning. The performance in powder won't be considered as crucial in comparison to the chatter/dampness on rough frozen. The ideal, imho, is tuning the core to the carbon so the ski flexes and the rebound doesn't rocket you up off the snow too much while having that good skin weight and enough dampness to make frozen crap bearable and manageable.
It's hard, if not impossible, to get optimum characteristics for all the variable performance characteristics. Shit, people are still shooting for that in every layup and shape out there. It's about finding the ski that performs for you. Carbon is a mutherfukker to do in wet layup. I kick myself in the ass for not having used prepreg carbon for the consistency in results when pressing and the added assurance that there will be no air voids in the carbon fiber. Those voids are usually what cause a carbon ski to break. This is why the hybrid layup can have good weight while being more durable and more damp with more easily predictable behavior in varied conditions. It's all about how the ski core works in conjunction with the composites, along with the shape, that gives a ski it's on snow performance characteristics.
Overall, I think the 191 Fat was the most outstanding Lhasa for all around performance. The only mags I might recall getting reverse camber 191 Fats were whyturn and stuntcock. I'd like to get stuntcok to pipe up on what he thinks about them, just cause I've never asked. We heli-tested the 186s in Pemberton and have skied in Mammoth together, so I'd value his opinion greatly.
I wouldn't be in for one at least for a bit. You should though. My 191s (second pair) are going strong. So much fun. Unfairly stable for their weight, and quite agile.
Any thoughts on price targets?
If we got 20 preorders, $850. If we got 30 or more preorders, $800.
I recently bought back the very last pair of pure carbon 191s made on Vashon from detrusor for $1250.
He hadn't mounted them and I wanted a quiver of my skis.
Word around Big Sky is you terrorized the area on Lhasa Pows last season and now you are adding to your arsenal? BTW the plaque on "Benny's core shot rock" in Dakota hasn't been finished yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
I owned 4 pair of PMGear skis, but they burned up in a fire, so I am in the market in the foreseeable future.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
i could use another pair of kusalas
i think i still haz your old #
call me sometime
Never been on a pair of Lhasas, but I’d be in line for a fat pow ski that weighs less than 8 lbs...
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Me too---Quote:
Originally Posted by skifishbum
Seriously
#me2Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco
FIFY
Splat. Are 99mm waisted bros with tip rocker at 179 an option in this preorder?
I think the pure carbon soft Kusalas were around 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefortrees
Great to see you still kickin out skis Pat! Still love my Kusalas long time.
Well, I don't actually "need" them, but....Quote:
Originally Posted by Talisman
It's all about the number of preorders made. Right now the pressing could start on December 1 and Keith can do 20 pair a week. I'd love to see most of the bros made again by Praxis and shapes like the 179 and 183 Fat would be two I'd love to see done. Keith is a good dude and I wish I'd have had him make that last batch that we got screwed on that killed PM Gear. He's right up the road and we get along great.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupreChicken
Lindahl - you still got those killer 191s I made for you? Those were beauties....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
I've never had a PM gear ski but they have looked interesting. I am certainly part of the problem as the cost of PM gear skis has always been higher than alternatives available to me. That is not to say that they are not good value of overpriced, simply that good skis have been available cheaply.
So here is the questions. "What exactly is a PM Gear ski made by Praxis". Is it just a PM Gear shape with a Praxis construction or is it a PM Gear shape with a construction superior to what Praxis already produces?
How honest is the ski industry about replicating the designs of other? Are there trademarks and patents for shapes?
If the product being discussed here is "Splat gave us the molds for a Lhasa Fat and Praxis is making it with our standard construction options" I am not sure how much of a premium that is worth over regular Praxis pricing.
What were the dims of the 187 Bro Fat, again? They seemed pretty all mountainy.
I have no duckets for preorder but 191 Lhasa fats have always given me the tingles in my naughty bits. I like the PM Gear topsheets and the light blue with brown detail or black with blue detail are gorgeous.
And Fog Gogs questions are salient to the topic. It might be up there in previous post and I missed it
From the sounds of it, $800-850 (per Splats early post) is pretty much in line with Praxis non-custom pricing. Based on that, I'm guess we're talking PM Gear molds, with Praxis construction. Probably add a hundro for carbon as per Praxis' usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
Praxis construction is pretty fucking rad on the ones I've had (Yetis and Protests). My Lhasa hybrids are great too.
Yup, Praxis construction has always been pretty solid in my book. I haven't bought new skis in a few years, so I guess I can justify the expense, but like FG's comments, it is tough for me to pay "full retail" as I haven't done that forever.
This is very good news. I am in a place where paying retail for a ski is not a sound financial move, because my quiver is in great shape, and just scored a pair of Mantras cheap, but, all I can say is, if anybody is considering new skis, think seriously about putting your money down. I adore my Llasha Pows on soft days.
Hmm... I never had 191s. Just 186 extra stiff Kusalas. I still have both pairs, the blem black Tibet hybrids and those awesome lime green airplane pures with the blue metal flecks. Those pures are still my favorite pow ski and see a lot of days on snow.Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
I think auvgeek had those stiff 191 Fats.